Den. Yellow Song 'Canary'

[articuno75]

Okay, This one's getting bigger and roots look good. Bottom leaves are starting to turn yellow.

Now I water this one on a regular basis. Should I cut back on the watering and fert now since it's showing signs of leaf drop?

[patticake]

Dens and I are just getting used to each other...I can say it looks good, though! I'll always remember the pillow fight, with this one!

[Leisurely]

Your plant looks like a Nobile type and it appears to have two in-mature, new growths.

The general opinion is to cease nitrogen fertilizer on Nobiles at the end of August. You should continue regular watering until mid October and then start tapering off. They require a chill to set buds.

[Leisurely]

I believe the new growths that I saw were on the plant in back. The advice though still remains the same.

Some of the new varieties of Nobiles do not require the chilling but unless you know what they are its best to chill them all in the fall.

[Sharyn]

Jenny: It's a nobile type den, so stop fertilizing now. As Leisurley stated, continue to water until mid-Oct and then start cutting back. I left my other nobile outside last year and it received plenty of chill (about 40F) for a month. I'll admit that there were a few nights when I played hop-scotch and brought it inside for fear of freezing. The bottom leaves turning yellow are normal.

This one will bloom on newer canes. This is my first year with this one. These Yamamato nobiles require some watering over the winter, just enough to keep the canes from shriveling.

Last year, my Oriental Smiles flowered, but I think I kept it too dry. I had a lot of bud blast. Hopefully, I'll get my watering right this year!

Here's Yamamoto's link. This is where Jerry gets his nobiles. General Care

[jerrymeola]

Yellow song is a Yamamoto Dendrobium.

They can be treated a little different from species Nobile.

Stopping nitrogen this month is correct. We accidentally fertilized many last year and they flowered fine, but do not take the risk and stop fertilizer. Excess nitrogen can cause the plant to grow keiki and no flowers.

Do not stop watering. You can cut back if you like but Yamamoto hybrids do not need to be stressed with lack of water. Mine get watered regularly with my Cattleya and Oncidium. They share the same areas of the shade house. Currently they are getting about 3 inches of rain a week and up to eight has been common this summer. Rains will be heavy until November and it has never harmed any of these Nobile.

I agree Sharyn that lack of water could have been the cause of losing buds. By the way Oriental smiles is a late bloomer usually not flowering until March early April.

They take very cold weather well. I have frozen them to 25 while in bud and they do not even drop the buds. Flowering is normally February after getting a month of 50 degree nights. Yet I had a Den Himezakura 'Sanokku' flower this week in 90-95 degree weather whereas Decmber is normal for it.

[articuno75]

Awesomeness. I guess I better kick this one out now so that it can get those temp drops that it needs.

Thanks guys.

[Sharyn]

Jerry: Thanks for the tips on the Yellow Song and Oriental Smiles. I'll definitely give them more water this winter than my other dens and I won't worry so much about the near freezing temps!

[jerrymeola]

The freezing of the plants was not intended last winter. We had a 25 degree night with 40-mph winds that ripped the plastic covering off the shade house.

With wind temperatures that high the effective temperature was probably much lower. The Cattleya leaves blackened and fell off. Oncidium and Phiaus flowers melted to nothing and the Nobile Dens sitting next to them ready to go to a show looked like nothing happened.

It was an expensive lessen but one I will not forget.

[Sharyn]

Well, I will definitely be bringing my dens into the foyer when the temps are near freezing. I know that you experienced some freezing, and if I remember correctly, you even posted pictures of a friends's nursery - orchids completely covered with ice crystals! I wouldn't intentionally leave my dens to those temps, but sometimes %&&## happens! I can't find the link right now, but others may be interested in seeing the ice covered orchids. I found it amazing that they recovered!

[articuno75]

Sharyn~ I remember that! Wasn't it Los Orchideas (sp?) and the Cymbidiums that they had that froze?

[articuno75]

Well all but two leaves fell off my plant. It looks pretty pathetic. BUT my Yellow Song Canary is doing "something". I see what either appears to be nubs or stubs. I'm hoping for blooms.

I brought it inside due to the chillier air so we'll see what happens.

[jerrymeola]

Flowers always develop exactly opposite the leaf never where the leaf falls off.

I almost said it was too early for flowers, but remembered you are in Indiana and it is cold up there.

If the plant had about a month of 50 degree or below at night, you may well have buds. Mine bloom in February. In Hawaii they move them to another location higher in the mountains for the cooler air to get early blooms. I will let you know Friday when my first Hawaiian shipment arrives if he sends me any in bloom. Usually he can find me a couple of dozen early bloomers out of the millions he raises.

[articuno75]

This little puppy had a little over a month's worth of 50 degree or so temps, and the stubby nub buttons are starting to form on the opposite sides.

[jerrymeola]

Those are definitely flower buds. They develop fast. Expect flowers in a couple of weeks.

[slippery_biscuit]

This one grows along side catts and oncidiums and with Jerry's, get about the same treatment. I've let the keiki get quite large and am still debating what to do with it. I'm kinda liking the way the roots have reached down like a mangrove tree (or is it a cypress? we don't have them here in the NW).

It did start blooming a month ago, but since it is in a heated and lighted greenhouse I have no idea what season it thinks it is in. WHile there are enough flowers to appreciate it is not as prolific a bloom as last year (purchased in bloom and bud). I'll try to make a note regarding the fertilizer and perhaps dry it out a bit more this winter.

Good luck with yours!

[articuno75]

Oooo. I hope mine looks as pretty as yours does.

[tizzycat]

I bought a den. at our O/S auction recently the label says: Den Nobilii.

I find all the advice in this thread very helpful, but am wondering where to move it to, to give it low night temps.

I have a conservatory, but have not tried any orchids in there yet at the temps between night and day during the Autumn and winter vary drastically. It has been down to about 8 deg. so far. Will have to try and find a cool spot for it.

[patticake]

Originally Posted by articuno75

This little puppy had a little over a month's worth of 50 degree or so temps, and the stubby nub buttons are starting to form on the opposite sides.

Jenny, that's really exciting!!

[Sharyn]

Jenny: I'm excited that my Yellow Song from Jerry is also starting to bud. Already gave it more than a month's chilling. Now that I took it inside and turned on the heat, it'll probably get another month of chilling.

Here's this mornings pics, along with the two pains in the neck, one of whom can absolutely NOT stay away from orchid bark - guess which one? He REALLY loves this little den and has tipped if over and out of the pot several times; therefore my surprise that it's surviving and now budding. Good luck on yours too.

[articuno75]

LoL Well I don't think mine will bloom. They look more like keikis without roots now. Are they suppose to look like that? I don't know. I'll have to post a pic of it to show you. Yours has way more buds on it than mine does and it kept it's leaves too.

[Sharyn]

Jenny: I went back and reviewed your pic again. Those are definitely buds. Give it a little more time. Last year, I only had a few buds on the Oriental Smiles, this year it hasn't started buds yet, just some swelling on the canes. Both dens, Oriental & Yellow Song were outdoors keeping each other company all summer and fall. The buds on this little guy (Yellow Song) just starting popping out within the last week. I kept it outside with the night temps around 40F for about 4-5 weeks. Just brought it inside last Friday when they were predicting freezing.

[Sharyn]

For some reason, couldn't edit my post. I wanted to add that the small cane (not shown) has no leaves. The leaves on this cane are turning yellow and I expect them to fall off soon.

[jerrymeola]

I am jealous. I have almost 300 and nothing blooming yet. But it has been 85 degrees all last month.

Even Hawaii only has the whites in bud. I could not even get a few flowering plants for samples.

The Oriental Smiles blooms about a month behind the other colors. In Florida I do not see flowers on it until March.

[kmarch]

Though the post was made a few weeks ago, I agree with Jerry that your den is spiking. My Yuki is in full flower now and I'll post some pics soon here as soon as I get settled.

Happy budding!

[articuno75]

Are we sure about this guys?

I'm really starting to lose confidence on this one being blooms.

[fred]

Jenny just on looking at you pics that you posted I would say flower spikes for the simple fact if they were keikis they would be forming roots by now
so don't lose confidence just yet

[articuno75]

Whew. Okay. Being the first and only nobile that I have, I felt that I lost my confidence there for a moment.

Temporary insanity. I'm okay now.

[patticake]

I can't wait to see the blooms on this one. I'll bet it wont be long now.

[Sharyn]

Jenny: I'm betting a bottle of great vodka to myself that those are buds! The buds on the nobile start out as little round nubs, but then elongate somewhat. Last year, I also thought that the growths on my Oriental Smiles were keikis, but they definitely turned out to be flower buds.

Just noticed some buds on the Oriental this morning. So far, so good.

Here's a pic this morning of the bare cane on my Yellow Song.

[articuno75]

This is such a depressing yet confusing update.

Well the buds got bigger and there was going to be six wonderful blooms.

The magic word is "WAS".

I don't know what happened. Four of the bud blasted. Can't figure it out for the beans of me. The only thing that I can think of that could have been a factor is that I let it go an extra day from the watering schedule.

Surely not, right? These are pretty flexible and hardy, and well,,, I didn't think that skipping one watering day could do such a thing.

Could it?

Anyways, on another note I found a nub on the bottom of one of the spikes. Could this be another spike or is it turning into a keiki?

[patticake]

How odd I don't have any of these, so I'm not much help, I'm afraid. I know with my conditions, having the heat on leads to lower humidity and some of my plants were whining! Maybe lower humidity combined with a missed watering? I'm just grasping at straws... I really wanted to see this one bloom. The remaining buds look good! I'll always think of the pillow-fight when I see this plant! Good luck...

[kmarch]

Jenny, I can't imagine that just one day off in your watering regimen caused the buds to blast. In the wild species orchids would never get that kind of certainty and regularity yet they still flower. There must be something else going on. One of my Dendrobiums spiked then blasted this year...I'm not sure what happens. I suspect there are times when we do everything right and it still goes wrong, after all we are dealing with living things here which always injects and element of uncertainty into things.

But there's good news in all this: You still have some green buds so there's still hope for the other spike. And even if those blast too, at least you know you have the conditions and culture necessary to make this orchid spike. If you can get it to spike this year it's a good bet you'll get it to spike next year, hopefully with better results. In the meantime, pop a couple of patience pills, give it another year, fingers crossed for the other spike, and enjoy your other blooms.

[articuno75]

LoL I was so excited about this one though. After all, it's a yellow bloomer.

In the meantime, pop a couple of patience pills, give it another year, and enjoy your other blooms

I might have to ingest the bottle for this one!

Still, can anyone make out what the nub might be?

[patticake]

A very early guess would say a root.. but it's so tiny yet...Either way I would say it's a good thing!

[kmarch]

Are you referring to the little growth at the base of the green spike?

[articuno75]

Yeah, it looks like the onset of a root, but to early to tell. I didn't think spikes root.

[articuno75]

*SIGH*

The rest of the buds went KA POOT and blasted I'll have to try again next time.

The mystery is solved on the nubs..... They're onsets of roots.

[Sharyn]

Jenny: Don't dismay. Next year will bring a better result. The same thing happened to me last year with the bud blast on the nobiles.

This year, with much cooler temperatures that you have in your apartment, my nobiles seem to be doing ok. Buds are forming...........hopefully will mature and flower. Hang in there girl. You've had sooooo much on your plate recently. This little setback is so small compared to your great accomplishments with the Fosters Garden. That's where we'll all find the REAL FLOWERS!

[articuno75]

Hehehe The orchid gods must be bound and determined to make sure that I see this one bloom.

She hasn't given up on me!!!

[patticake]

O.K., The pillow fight isn't over yet!!! This looks very promising!! I can't wait to see what she does!!!

[kninum]

well now that's a happy New Year!!!

[lissie0113]

it must be the time of year for them! mine is spiking too!

[Sharyn]

LOL Jenny! Yup, she's bound and determined to give you at least one bloom.

I'll post some pics of mine tomorrow. I found it surprising that the initial flower opens as a light greenish/white. After it opens, it appears as a very, very pale yellow, almost yellow/white. After a few days or a week, the colors deepen and become a truer shade of yellow. I'll be curious to see yours. Cross fingers for one big bloom.

[articuno75]

The keikis are just abundant with roots. I think I'll pluck them here soon and pot them up.

[lissie0113]

sharyn... you were right about the color change! mine were almost a pale lime green when they opened and then turned into a gorgeous yellow!

[lissie0113]

okay so i have a question..... i have been enjoying these beautiful blooms for about a month now, and they have started to drop off, which i assume is normal. But also, the leaves are starting to turn yellow now too. I had heard that this plant really should have lost its leaves before it bloomed, so now is it normal that it is about to start dropping them? two new canes are forming at the base..... so again, i am pretty sure this is normal , but i just want to double check. also, after blooming would be a good time to repot this plant right? it is in a very small 2 1/2 in pot and it is getting very topheavy. i just dont want to disturb it too much bc the sphag top layer is alive. so anyways....any tips? also, these only flower once a year correct? just so i know when to expect another gorgeous show!

[Sharyn]

Melissa: Mine bloomed before Christmas and is also starting new canes. I still have 5 leaves left on the tallest cane. They are somewhat yellowed, but still hanging on!

As far as I know, the Yellow Song 'Canary' only blooms once a year. Someone correct me if I'm wrong. I would not repot your plant. Don't disturb the roots any more than necessary. Put your little pot inside of cache pot for stability (perhaps staking it with a skewer). Dens like to be pot bound and I think that all of mine do better when in pots that look like they're too small, but actually are "just right."

An added note: Since I'm in the Midwest, mine started blooming in December, however, I've seen others from areas like Florida, whose plants are just now blooming. Guess it all depends on the temperature changes.

[lissie0113]

thanks sharyn. yeah it looks pretty happy in there, even though it is top heavy. i do have it staked and put inside another ceramic 3 in pot so it wont tip over. there is plenty of room for more canes i think....only one small one and one large one right now. this guy is just a seedling. mine, like yours, is just having yellowing on the leaves. maybe they wont fall off? it has 7 leaves right now, just finished flowering 15 blooms. i only have 3 of those left. so i guess ill see what it does, but it should be fine. exactly what is expected i guess ;o)

[kmarch]

A trick I learned at orchid society is to get a larger pot, and fill it with just enough gravel so that when you set the orchid pot in side the top of the orchid pot comes ot the top of the bigger pot. Then fill in between the 2 pots with gravel. This will give enough weight that the plant shouldn't tip over but the gravel will still allow the excess water to drain away.

[lmartiny]

I have a white one from Jerry and it has two flowers left. Still has it's leaves and a new growth is poking out. A few buds did blast from coming in and out with the freezes.

[kktbva]

Here is how much the color changed on mine. It has 7 flowers total. They've been blooming for about 3 weeks. I bought this 'Canary' and the 'Fantasy' from Jerry last year. Last summer, my husband accidentally knocked the 'Fantasy' down and broke the bigger of the two growths in half. It did have one bud but blasted not long after that. Better luck next year. Enjoy!

~Kathie

[lissie0113]

nice pics of the color progression! mine did the same thing. they started off a greenish white and now that they are finishing up they are beautiful buttery lemony yellow. LOVE THEM!

[articuno75]

Sadly my keikis didn't make it. Neither did my plant. It just slowly faded into orchid heaven. I watered it on cue and everything.

Come to think of it. I think it became mite fodder.

Really nerve racking.

[kid a]

I had a few die on me recently too. It stinks.

[ScarlettPP]

I have a Den Yellow Song 'Canary' that I purchased about 10 days ago. It was very helpful to read through all of this. Now I have to go back and reread and try to understand. But the difference in color is very similar to mine. Thank you.