Phal Repotting & Media

[mayres]

This is a quick post to show what I have found works GREAT for phals.
Moisture retention is excellent - NO FLOPPY LEAVES - EVER. Must be careful not to overwater!
Mix is approximately 75% coir, 20% perlite, & 5% charcoal. The coir comes in a brick and expands significantly. Note: I cut a small piece off the brick that weighed 69 grams and then broke it apart and checked to see how much water it held - I will try to show pic in next post - now 463 grams. So you see the media is now approximately 85% water!
First pic in this post is of supplies I use - coir from a local hydroponics store - all coir is not created equal! Good coir is well washed/rinsed and has good fiber content. Unless you know your coir is good quality you would be well advised to rinse very thoroughly yourself. I noted the website for what I use is americanagritech.com. I have repotted about 40 plants and still have about 25% of the bale left. Agricultural charcoal and perlite are purchased from a local garden department in a department store - available at many places. Some people like larger perlite which is available in large bags at our hydroponics store. The charcoal comes just a little chunker than I like, so I break it up a bit with a hammer in a zip lock bag. 2nd pic is of the media closer view - including the mixed version.
3rd pic is of the plant I am repotting as a gift to someone - note the condition of this plant after being in this mix for 13 months. I put styrofoam peanuts in the bottom - it provides an extra layer of protection against me accidently leaving the pot in a thin layer of water, helps to assure good drainage, and good air for the roots in the bottom. The phal roots seem to like it - they can attach to it and wrap around like you cannot believe! If you use them be sure and DO NOT use the type that turn to goo when wet.
4th pic is of the same plant with the previous media and peanuts just shaken off. I have not put any water on the roots to wash anything at all off. Notice there is not one single bad root in the lot! Happy happy plant .
5th pic is of the plant all potted up and ready for shipping! Soon to be on its way back east. Yippee!
Maybe this will spark some additional conversation and comments among us?
mike

[mayres]

Here is what the coir looks like when cut into a cube about 1 3/4 inches and then rehydrated! Again - rehydrated media is 85% water. It really helps in knowing when to water - is your plant/pot light or heavy? mike

[PhalPal]

Hey Mike - You are preaching to the choir here! I totally love this mix and have had similiar results to yours. Coir has a property that allows lots of air flow even though it appears to be quite wet. The only thing different that I add to my mix is Diatomite. I have never had to worry about overwatering. From previous posts I am sure everyone knows where I stand on bark (ICK) and since changing to the coir mixes I have not had one problem.

A considerable point is that I grow phals indoors and cyms outdoor (plus one Onc) and I use the same mix for all. Very hot and dry outside, and my cyms love it. Climate controlled inside, and my Phals love it. My cyms really took off this summer, and they did so right after re-potting without sulking at all. I like having ONE mix in which I can grow several varieties.

I have truly found the one mix that works for me in my conditions, after many trials and failures. I always knew within a couple of months if a mix was just not working for me because my plants began to fail and continued to fail even though I tried to change my habits to accommodate the mix. I would strongly encourage others to give this mix a try and tweek it for your growing conditions.

[sandra]

Mike, this is the coir I'm picking up on Friday from a nursery nearby called, Go-Brick Coconut Coir Fiber. I buy my clear, plastic pots there and know they carry this one product. (Plus, I'm buying another cattleya from them then too!) Have you ever heard of this? I'll condition it first, regardless. The charcoal and perlite, I've got so, I'll be ready whenever the phals are for repotting now. Also have the right styrofoam for the pots, so I'm set!!

Originally Posted by mayres

This is a quick post to show what I have found works GREAT for phals.

QUICK? I asked for what you used and in turn, you gave me a complete tuitorial, pictures and all! I am forever humbled here, thank you Mike. It's more than I expected and I feel confident that this is what I want to use for my phals. In fact, I can't wait to start getting all of them into this mix.

My phals are doing well; I'm just not happy with the medium and need to find something that I feel in sync with....if that makes sense which I believe, you understand. I hate the uncertainty with the watering issues I already explained and if I can get the leaves to obtain more body, then I'll be one satisified phal grower. In fact, it must be growing season for my phals because right now every one of them is growing more leaves. I've got 3 that are beginning new leaves before the ones prior have fully developed and like wildfire, they're growing now.

I'll be using the skewers to gage me with watering and like some of my oncs in sphag., I'll be watering up and not into the pots.

THIS WAS GREAT MIKE! You rock! Thank you!

P.S. Who are you sending that phal to?
P.S.S. I looked up americanagritech.com and there's a distributor not far from me....just in case.

[fred]

thats great Mike
I have made this thread sticky so it wont be lost as I find the information can be used by alot of the members here.

thank you Mike

[mayres]

PhalPal - I also have tried this mix 50/50 with fine bark & perlite on one of my five cymbidiums. Maybe should have gone the full route like you did, but I am very new to them and wasn't sure how well it would work - kind of wish I would have after reading your post. So far it looks excellent (since March).
Sandra - I have not tried that brand of coir, but it might be good (?). Just to give you something to compare - the type I use comes in an approximate 1/2 cubic foot package (12X12X5.5 inches). Sorry to you metric lovers You did notice that I used "grams" in my earlier illustration though? I paid $14 for this brand. They also had a cheaper brand that was $8 for the same quantity - but the worker at the store said it wasn't as good and I wanted the "good" stuff for my plants!
Some time ago I promised someone on the forum a sample of the media I use - they had expressed some questions/concerns about some they had seen. I figured what better way to see for yourself what a great job it does than see it perform with a nice healthy plant in it?
In terms of watering, this media wets thoroughly very easily from the top. You may have seen in another post that I fill my bathtub with phals and then water them thoroughly from the top - leaves and all. As long as you do it early in the day and have plenty of air movement there is never an issue with crown rot - at least I've never noted any issue.
I started out using a skewer too, but soon realized how easy it is to tell when watering is needed by the weight of the plant/pot/media - you will see this too.
Keep us updated from time to time how you like this media - I'm betting you will join Phalpal and I in touting its good characteristics. mike

[BillC]

Mike, I have been touting your mix for about a year ever since I read your original post for it. I am glad that you have enlarged and shown pics on this post which I believe should be made ' sticky ' I have nearly all my plants in the mix and they all do well.

Fred Please note!!

Bill

[fred]

good point Bill only the thread was made sticky earlier this morning.

[sandra]

Mike, if I tell you something, you've got to promise not to tell anyone else here on the forum. Some will immediately jump to false conclusions and think, there she goes again....

I've got a couple of brassidiums and one miltassia that I bought a few months ago and came potted up in coir and fir bark but before I knew what this was, it bothered me, never having seen this before and didn't like not knowing what I was dealing with. Remember that tag I posted that read about when the flowers die, throw the plant out...we'll grow more for you? Because of that tag, I believed that all those plants from this nursery were potted in cheap, ready to break down, bad for the plants....stuff! When I couldn't find info about it, I decided to change the media on the miltassia into bark. That plant is doing great, I've got 2 spikes with 18 flowers now and 2 more spikes growing. The 2 other plants remained in this coir/bark and not only are they growing, but I can't keep up with all the new growth and are also spiking like crazy. I finally wrote to this nursery, inquiring about what they use and this past Friday they finally responded and the mystery was solved.....coir! I loved this stuff before I knew what it was. And, yes...it's very accurate in telling when watering time is nearing...my original concern that started all of this!

I'm already with you and Connie (PhalPal) on this one. I'm going to check out the coir from the distributor you posted later and go for your recommendation on it.

I'll keep you posted on the progress I make here! You rock Mike!

[Sharyn]

Mike, this is a great tutorial. Now I see what you meant by the coir. The picture says a thousand words. The stuff I originally purchased was like finely ground up peat which turned to mud for me. I'm anxious to try your formula. I've already had great luck with more moisture retentive mix for the phals. Thanks for posting this - very informative!

[sandra]

Mike, I spoke with the local dealer today for americanagritech.com. He invited me to come check out all the supplies for orchids which I'm going to do either tomorrow or Friday. He's got the coir and told me that he's got quite a few bricks of it and will just give me what I need, no charge. He's also got the clear plastic pots in 4" and 5" and told me again, that I was welcome to those as well.

Maybe I should bring a male friend with me when I go. Sounds too good to be true.

[mayres]

Wow! I'm green with envy. If I was not 3500 miles away I would hide in the trunk and grab a bale or two for myself! Lucky duck.

[sandra]

Mike, I did my first potting using your ingredients. I'm still amazed at the amount of fibre that was packed into the coir brick... I have enough for a lifetime. I received this phal in the mail, bare rooted and is why it looks a little tweaked. It'll take about a week before it relaxes back into it's natural posture. This is a Mike (dedicated to you ) Phal Tien Nong Stripe. Additionally, I used Nutricote (13-13-13), slow release.

I'll keep you posted on it's progress. Thanks again...and again!

[mayres]

Sandra - that is sweet......
That looks like ONE HEALTHY PHAL! I'll be looking forward to seeing it in bloom come spring! And of course even more of those nice rigid looking wonderfully green leaves.
Blessings,
Mike

[PhalPal]

WooHoo Sandra!! It is so good to see others trying this great combo. I have finally gotten to the point in my orchid growing hobby where I know what works and what doesn't for me and my plants. I use Dynarock instead of perlite, but the basic coir mix is the same and I love it. PharmSolutions is my other great find.

My cyms are just taking off this summer; I have so many new growths. I can't wait to see them bloom this Fall!!!

[arleneg]

My Miltonia and Oncidium really like the coir mix, which I began using since last fall. However, my mix has coir and perlite. I didn't have charcoal at the time of repot last year. This time around, I have charcoal and will add granite grit or marble chips instead of perlite.

Mike, what do you use to cut your coir brick? Is a 1 1/2 inch cut enough for a 2-3 plants in 4" pots? I made a mistake of reconstituting a whole brick last time that I ended up wasting the left-over.

[PhalPal]

Arlene - I mix all of my ingredients in big batches and always make too much so I have enough for new purchases without having to take out the whole mess again. I just let it dry out and save it for next time.

Mike - do you do it differently??

[mayres]

Arlene and PhalPal - I make up a big batch - always more than I can use. I have it in a large bucket and what isn't used is allowed to slowly dry out and then I just add water when I need it and I'm ready to go the next time until it is used up. No need to ever discard it! If I remember right (?) the bricks noted in the pics above are about 12 inches square by 5 inches or so. Without too much effort I can take a wood chisel and shave off sections as I need it and then when I apply water I can make certain it is well broken apart and mixed with the other ingredients. I actually have a band saw that would work really well to cut off squares, but the chisel has worked well enough that I haven't made the effort to take out to the garage and start up the saw.
Arlene - good to hear it is working well for your other genera - I had been using fine bark for those, but I'm inclined to try the coir mix for those too now. Thanks for the encouragement to do so! I'm starting to wonder if there are any genera of orchids that I have that it would NOT be good for? Something that needed to dry quickly and stay dry for a spell? Cattleyas? I actually have a small one in this that seems to be doing OK.
mike

[arleneg]

Mike & PhalPal -- The left-over coir got moldy due to not drying quick enough. That's why I'm afraid to soak the whole brick. I'll have to cut my brick into squares next time around. Any left-over should be small enough that it will dry quicker.

Mike -- Try it. Just make sure you put a little more perlite (or dynarock) for more aeration. Water when coir mix is almost dry. Like you, I use clear pots and find it easy to tell when to water.

[Tess1]

I know what I am going to pot my orchids in, next time they need repotting!

[WIB]

Mike - Have you tried the coir bricks that come apart in small chunks rather than fiber? A friend who got them by mistake gave me a bunch of them, and I haven't given this form of coir much of a try. -- Bill

P.S. I have found it important to dry out the coir fiber for storage. If it stands in a bucket for a while, it gets a kind of mean, sulfur-y smell. So I spread it in a large plastic tray that I got at Home Depot, one that is intended for mixing small batches of concrete or paint or some such, and fluff it until it dries.

[mayres]

Hi Bill - no I've not tried the little chunk form as of yet from scratch. I have had a paph in that form of media for over two years (it came that way - straight, not mixed with anything) and I have not replaced it yet - though probably should have (?). It seems to do an excellent job in this one instance that I have it. When you give it a go be sure and report back how you like it and what genera you used it with and whether or not straight or mixed with other media.
Arlene - I just leave all my leftover spread out in a wide bucket and it seems to slowly dry with no issues until I'm ready to use it again. I have now tried this media on a few small paphs that had very little root structure - and it seems to be keeping them progressing nicely).

[Sheltie57]

What an awesome thread! I'm a newbie and I'm afraid I've had to find out the hard way that some medium does not do well in my home. Moss being the worst. I've lost most of my plants that I purchased from the local orchid shows that were in moss. yet the ones that came from the local Walmart/Home Depot/Rona stores are doing well. I believe that they are in a bark mixture of some kind. My home is about 4 years old and still tends to be very humid especially in the spring and the fall. I've even had moss grow mold during those times. I currently have about 10 orchids. Yep, I've been bitten by the bug. And I think I've killed about 5 orchids. So you can see, I'm still in the learning stage. My orhids at work seem to be doing the best and have even been consistent about blooming every year. I think it's because they drop the temperature at night. I've heard that orhids like that to encourage blooms.

Anyway, I did have a question. Sorry for rambling on. :-)

What is the skewer about? Could you give me more info about that? And will this potting mixture be a good fit for my conditions at home?

[mayres]

Check cynthia's thread of the skewer method - Skewer use for watering of orchids
This potting mixture should work - but it definately will take more monitoring to make sure you don't over water. People often get away with watering on a routine schedule with bark - say once a week. With coir mix it will vary depending upon the time of year - could be as long as 3-4 weeks depending upon your conditions.

[butt0n]

Wow! I'll have to keep this mix in mind when its time to repot my phals.

[PhalPal]

buttOn I'm so happy to see this thread revived! It is now many months later and all of my plants are still doing great, even my Catts. I had a beautiful Cymbidium year (even won a ribbon!) and for the first time ever have double spikes on a few Phals. I need to add that said Phals are now under T5 lights in plastic pots; I am sure this has helped them considerably as well.
I have added tree fern to my mix to increase fluffyness and add air pockets. I was told it will keep any mix (especially spraghum) from packing down.

FINALLY everything has evolved to a mix that works for me in our dry weather and all are in plastic pots so I can see what is going on. Now I'm DONE, right?? Done? No more changes/experiments/evolutions??!!

[berkeleysgr8]

This is a great thread. I just repotted a Phal earlier this week in a mixture of Cocogro coir, bark and a prepackaged orchid mix (with Hydroton in the bottom inch of the pot- same purpose as the styrofoam "peanuts"). I was worried that the coir was too fine in texture. Now I'm feeling a LOT more confident that it will be a mix that will work well. I think I may have FINALLY stumbled upon the answer for what I should be potting my Cymbidiums in! It gets very hot (typically 100+ and occasionally 110+) and dry up here in the summer and I cannot seem to water my Cyms enough. I will try to get at least a couple of my Cyms switched over to coir so I can test the theory that it will make my plants a lot happier (as will putting up shade cloth!).

[butt0n]

I was thinking about the 2 phals I have and have reconsidered and I'm gonna be buying some coir to repot them. They do grow pretty well, but they've been staying on the smaller side. I also have to water them a lot since they're just in bark. I've had a lot of success with tons of growth and roots with just bark with my catts and nobiles, but I think the phals need something else.

I had a question about charcoal; what does it exactly do for the mix?

[sandra]

Memory Lane...seeing this thread again. One of the most confusing topics for me last year was potting mediums, didn't like making choices when I was still, too inexperienced then.

Finally found the mix that works perfectly for my Phals and if you remember Mike, I lost a couple in the same mix you have great success with BUT after switching back to straight bark, I still wasn't seeing great progress UNTIL I changed the mix once again (last November) to 50/50 bark and coir....the best! It wasn't until I was able to decipher and recognize the hows and whys and what I could expect from each medium, was I able to give them the right combination and my Phals have finally responded better than I expected. In the beginning, I think I tried every combination you could think of.

I will never, ever switch from bark/coir to anything else again. A very happy ending, here. Amen.

[norris]

Before I found this forum, I thought orchids only grew in bark or moss. I've learned a lot from this thread, and would like to try using coir, and I also have heard some good things about coco husk chips. I would like to know where I can find these, are they only available mail order? When I asked at Home Depot, they looked at me like I was from outer space I could get the perlite, and charcoal at a local nursery, but they didn't have coir or coco chips.

[PhalPal]

norris I start with a bag of Aussie Gold (the main coir source) and add my other ingredients to it. I get it either at a show or Orange County Farm Supply on Chapman Ave in Orange. I have not found coir bricks in any plant store or nursery I have visited locally. (Maybe Roger's Gardens?? I'll look the next time I'm down by the beach) There are lots of great online suppliers, too. My favorite is Orchid Supplies - Orchid Mix - Orchid Pots - Orchid Fertilizer - rePotme.com Orchid Supply. You can make your own mix by the scoop!

[Sharyn]

Norris: The last time I visited Oak Hill Gardens here in Illinois, I picked up some supplies that I'm not able to find in my local stores. That included some coco chips. I have also ordered them from Orchid Supplies - Orchid Mix - Orchid Pots - Orchid Fertilizer - rePotme.com Orchid Supply a very reputable company.

Mike (mayres) on our forum got me hooked on this stuff and recommended the Amercan Agritech coco bricks. Since you're in CA, you probably can find a closer source than the one I used, but I ordered from this company and they were very prompt with shipment. Fairly inexpensive and a little goes along way so depending on the size of your collection, one or two bricks reconstituted will make a heck of a lot of coir! I just cut some pieces off the brick and make small batches. Although the company says it's been very well rinsed, it still needs to be soaked and rinsed well, but I've had no problems with salt deposits in the coir from this manufacturer. I rinsed and soaked several times before using.
Cocogro Brick from Growco Indoor Garden Supply

[berkeleysgr8]

Norris, if you have "hydroponic" or "grow shops" in your area, I'd suggest going there. I live in an area where the "medical" marijuana laws are blatantly abused for the purpose of people growing marijuana for profit. As such, there are a lot of local businesses competing to sell grow supplies. I've been able to get all kinds of orchid growing goodies from these stores...CocoGro, K-L-N, cloning gel (to start eyes on Cym back bulbs), fertilizer, SuperThrive, Hydroton, etc. When I purchased my "boss" Cocogro (a large brick of coir in a bag), the salesgirl enthusiastically told me I could "grow right in the bag!" I didn't bother to tell her that it wouldn't work for the kinds of plants I grow!

[norris]

Thank you so much PhalPal, Sharyn, and Berkeleysgr8. I will first head out to Orange County Farm Supply, and Rogers Garden... I forgot all about that place since I moved out here to the desert If I don't find what I'm looking for I will order online from some of the sources you listed. When I first started looking into the coconut products online, I got a little too much info online, and I'm happy to have some trusted sources from you guys
Berkeleysgr8, I'll have to remember about the hydroponic shops next time I visit my daughter... she's going to school at Humbolt

[PhalPal]

Ahhh....gotta love Berkeley. My brother in law went to school there and it was like going back in a time warp! I went to our local book store to look for a book on growing orchids outdoors. No orchid books, but LOTS - dozens -of books on how to grow marijuana under lights.

Sharyn so you use the coco fiber versus ground up coir?? How about you Mike?? I imagine there could be a big difference between the two and how we would use them.

Norris - let me know what you find at Roger's. I love that place! A $3 brick of coir could end up costing you $100 sooooo easily!

[Sharyn]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Sharyn so you use the coco fiber versus ground up coir?? How about you Mike?? I imagine there could be a big difference between the two and how we would use them.

Connie: The coco bricks that I purchased expand to pretty short fibers. This works very well for me mixed with some perlite and charcoal. A whole brick can be rehydrated with 1/2 gal of water. I used more water, soaked overnight and squeezed and rinsed. I did this several times just to make sure it was clean of salts. Maybe that was a bit of overkill but I wanted to be careful.

The first stuff that I ordered from repotme.com was the ground up stuff - it looks like peat. I'm not saying that anything was wrong with the ground coir, just the fact that I was inexperienced at using coir, especially this very fine grind. The ground up stuff just made a big mudpie in my pots even with additives and my plants were quickly in trouble, therefore, the switch to the coco bricks with longer fiber. For those experienced with using finley ground coir, no problem. I just prefer the bricks and I have better luck with them.

I remember Mike advising me that not all coir is created equal and he was right.

[arleneg]

Originally Posted by norris

... When I asked at Home Depot, they looked at me like I was from outer space I could get the perlite, and charcoal at a local nursery, but they didn't have coir or coco chips.

I got that same look when I asked at OSH and Home Depot.

I have some coconut coir which I thought was coconut fiber (according to what our guest speaker said at one of the orchid society meetings). I wanted more fiber, but ended up with a big bagful of coir. If you want some, pm me. All I'll ask is to be reimbursed for shipping cost. The bag of coir I have is not the ground up kind. Look more like chopped fiber with some ground up coir. I'll post a pic later.

[PhalPal]

I'm really beginning to think there is something very special with the coir used in Aussie Gold. I don't get anything like mud; the drainage is excellent and the mix stays very light, almost fluffy. I have been asking about what everyone else is using because I figured it was just easier to make my own. Maybe I won't be able to find whatever magical stuff AG uses.

[norris]

Ok, I got a small bag of Aussie Gold Mix, and a bag of the Dyna Roc from Orange County Farm Supply, Arlene is going to send me some coir, so I think I'm ready to go I went to Rogers Garden, it is a beautiful nursery, they had one brick of something called 'Coco-Fiber Potting Soil' it was only $3.29 so I got it. They didn't have any coco husk chips though. They had a fair selection of orchids, but I was surprised that they only had generic tags.

[berkeleysgr8]

Norris, I guarantee there are plenty of grow shops in Humboldt! I'm in Mendocino County... part of the "emerald triangle" along with Humboldt. On my next trip to the hydro store, I'm going to look for some charcoal and perlite. I've been going through a ton of coir in the past week... I'm almost out now. I think coir will keep my Cyms a LOT happier this summer! Since this is the time of year that growers start moving their plants outdoors, a lot of grow shops are running sales on their products.

P.S.- "Berkeleysgr8" is in reference to the fact that I earned my Master's degree at UC Berkeley. Go Cal! It really is a great school and a fun town!

[myorchid]

PhalPal-I saw a brick of the coir mix at the local nursery and then read this thread. I have a Naples Nights that I am having trouble with. I wonder if I should try it in the coir.

If I do-when I rehydrate do I need to wait before using it or can I just pot it? I have tried the sphag but it seems to stay too wet. I live in Washington State.

I also wonder if I could use this mix for Masdevallia, I will be getting one this week.
Thanks for the help.

[mayres]

Hi April -
Yes you can use it right away after rehydrating. One thing about coir is as I have said previously - all coir is not created equal. It can vary tremendously to light and airy with lots of fiber to dense and heavy like mud (as many unwary have noted). Good quality coir comes well rinsed, but unless you have used a particular brand before and know, I would recommend that you rinse it very well in a colandar - remember this is coconut material that comes near the ocean - so can have quite a bit of salt residue potentially (so I've read) though I have not had any issues with the brand that I use.
Don't pack it into the pot around the roots hard - you want to keep it a little loose if possible. I'd mix with perlite as noted at the beginning of this thread. I have my Naples Nights in it and it is doing well so far - we need more warm weather mainly!
Good luck!

[myorchid]

Thanks Mike.
Should I also mix in some charcoal or just the perlite? I will stop at the nursery this week to see about getting a brick of it to try.

Do you think I could use it for the Masdevallia? I haven't done very well using the sphag and I know that is what the Masdevallia will come in.

I have some packing foam that I could put in the bottom of the pot first then the coir mixed with perlite, does that sound OK? then to water again it is just how heavy the pot is?

[butt0n]

My shipment of coir arrived a couple days ago and I finally got around to repotting my phals. I'm very impressed at how fluffy and airy it is; the water retention is awesome! I found that in the last week I had to water them every other day when they were in a bark mix; hopefully this will work a lot better for me now that its getting a lot hotter here.

[mayres]

myorchid - I use some agricultural charcoal in my mix, but it would probably do fine without - some of the people in my local orchid society were all using it so I have just begun doing what some others have found successful. Seems to work great. I have not grown in Masdies yet - if they like to be moist it may work (?). I put some packing peanuts in most of my pots in the bottom. Be careful not to use the type that turn to goo when wet. You have the concept down pretty good concerning weight. Once you water you will note how heavy the plant/pot/media is and then when it gets very light it is time to rewater. I put all my phals in clear pots now too - you can see the moisture inside and tell with the combination of visual AND weight VERY good. You've probably all done by now - noted you wrote your post a few weeks ago - sorry for the delayed response.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by butt0n

My shipment of coir arrived a couple days ago and I finally got around to repotting my phals. I'm very impressed at how fluffy and airy it is; the water retention is awesome! I found that in the last week I had to water them every other day when they were in a bark mix; hopefully this will work a lot better for me now that its getting a lot hotter here.

The more you use it with other plants and know exactly how much of it to use, the more hooked you'll get butt0n. I just recently repotted all my Phals, removed all the coir, using only the bark mix. I thought because we're going into hot, heavy, humid weather that the coir would suffocate the roots and better to leave it out during the summer. Yesterday, I added some coir back into the mix. They're just happier with it so who am I to deny them? It's now standard with all my water loving orchids. The only ones I don't use coir on are my Catts. and Dends.

BTW butt0n, what ever happened to the pics of your Dend. Nobile Oriental Smiles? What color did they turn out? Did they brighten up? I think it was you with those gorgeous Nobiles that you posted, wasn't it? I'll have to do a search....

[butt0n]

Hey Sandra, the coir is definitely cool stuff; should I use the same combination of mix with paphs as well? I didn't repot my paphs yet, since I thought I'd ask first.

As for my Oriental Smile, it did get a lot deeper in color, but still not like the others I have seen. I'm currently having issues cropping pictures, as I have just gotten a Mac and am still trying to figure it out...lol...anyways, I do have pictures of them though. I'll post them soon as well...also pictures of my Love Memory 'Fit'. Interestingly enough, my Love Memory was very fragrant during the first week or 2 since they opened, and it filled my entire living room. The scent has toned down a bit but it was pretty amazing since I could smell it across the room.

[myorchid]

Mike

Yes, I did repot my new Phals in the coir mix, and it seems to be doing well. I water when the pot is light and so far things are looking good.

Thanks for the good information.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by butt0n

Hey Sandra, the coir is definitely cool stuff; should I use the same combination of mix with paphs as well? I didn't repot my paphs yet, since I thought I'd ask first.

As for my Oriental Smile, it did get a lot deeper in color, but still not like the others I have seen. I'm currently having issues cropping pictures, as I have just gotten a Mac and am still trying to figure it out...lol...anyways, I do have pictures of them though. I'll post them soon as well...also pictures of my Love Memory 'Fit'. Interestingly enough, my Love Memory was very fragrant during the first week or 2 since they opened, and it filled my entire living room. The scent has toned down a bit but it was pretty amazing since I could smell it across the room.

butt0n, I'm not one to give advice on Paphs. I struggle with mine. Mine happens to have coir in the mix along with bark, and some coco husk chips too. Hopefully, Kevin will see this and give you the advice you need.

Looking forward to seeing pics of your Nobiles. Hurry up and figure out your new program!

[mayres]

buttOn - I've re-rooted two totally rootless paphs (seriously - not even a nub of a root remaining!) in this mix! I have not left any plants in this permanently yet though - not sure why not - in theory it should be a pretty good media. Most people in my area use bark and perlite (and maybe a little charcoal) so I have so far just stayed with what I have seen is working for others here.

[ratherbgardening]

Hi. I'm new here and new to orchid growing. I've killed a few along the way. A year ago I bought a phal and it's still alive. I just bought a second one at Lowes from the 1/2 price rack and it needs some TLC. I couldn't decide what mix to use and came across this and it makes perfect sense. I'll give the mix a try and see how it goes.

[Aniko]

Mike, I'm so grateful for learning about the coir/perlite/charcoal mix!

I tried this mix last fall for some Degarmoara and Phalaenopsis, when Sharyn was so kind and sent me a sample of it. Than I took the risk and re-planted my beloved Otaara Hwa Yuan Bay 'She-Shu' in order to see if it works for Catts, too.
I can briefly say: YES! it works very well.

Since than, I've re-potted almost everything I have: Miltoniopsis, Epidendrum, Dendrobium, Phragmipedium and the other Cattleyas - I am pleased by the good results, all my orchids are happy in this mix.

It seems to be the perfect medium (if such a thing exists!), anyway the best for me. I have a good control of moisture: I can keep it on the wet side or on the dry side, as needed.Plus, it's a great advantage to have to deal with only one type of medium.

Still I have a question: how often a plant has to be re-potted in fresh mix? In other words, when the coir starts to be old, degraded?

[PhalPal]

Aniko I use a coir mix very similiar to Mike's and I have yet to repot any of my orchids. It has been over a year and the mix is still light and fluffy and the water retention has not changed. I have many types of orchid planted in it as well and find it to be a very universal mix. I was having a hard time keeping my Catts hydrated in more open mixes and they like the coir. The only thing I do differently is add some coco husk for my Cyms outdoors. Welcome to the every growing fan list of coir! Keep us up on your progress!

[Aniko]

PhalPal - thank you! I see we share quite similar experience except for the Cym which I don't have.
Happy growing...in coir!

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by sandra

Mike, this is the coir I'm picking up on Friday from a nursery nearby called, Go-Brick Coconut Coir Fiber. I buy my clear, plastic pots there and know they carry this one product. (Plus, I'm buying another cattleya from them then too!) Have you ever heard of this? I'll condition it first, regardless. The charcoal and perlite, I've got so, I'll be ready whenever the phals are for repotting now. Also have the right styrofoam for the pots, so I'm set!!



QUICK? I asked for what you used and in turn, you gave me a complete tuitorial, pictures and all! I am forever humbled here, thank you Mike. It's more than I expected and I feel confident that this is what I want to use for my phals. In fact, I can't wait to start getting all of them into this mix.

My phals are doing well; I'm just not happy with the medium and need to find something that I feel in sync with....if that makes sense which I believe, you understand. I hate the uncertainty with the watering issues I already explained and if I can get the leaves to obtain more body, then I'll be one satisified phal grower. In fact, it must be growing season for my phals because right now every one of them is growing more leaves. I've got 3 that are beginning new leaves before the ones prior have fully developed and like wildfire, they're growing now.

I'll be using the skewers to gage me with watering and like some of my oncs in sphag., I'll be watering up and not into the pots.

THIS WAS GREAT MIKE! You rock! Thank you!

P.S. Who are you sending that phal to?
P.S.S. I looked up americanagritech.com and there's a distributor not far from me....just in case.

is coconut husk chips the same as choir??

[mayres]

No - it comes from the same source but the properties are a little different - though similar. I have not actually used the chips though I purchased a paph once which was potted up in chips. I actually am in the process of rerooting this paph now that was in husk chips - the media had degraded to the point that the roots all rotted leaving me with literally not a single root. I repotted into a very small container of coir and it seems to be slowly recovering - have done this successfully before so am optimistic. The nice thing about the coir that many of us use is mixing it with perlite helps keep in light and fluffy. The chips alone will eventually pack together and loose their ability to provide good breathability for the roots.

[Lacerr]

I could not open the webpage americanagritech.com
are there any major retailers that would sell this stuff?

[Sharyn]

Originally Posted by Lacerr

I could not open the webpage americanagritech.com
are there any major retailers that would sell this stuff?

Lacerr: Perhaps a Hydroponic store in your area would have the product. I've never seen it in any of the retail garden shops or home improvement stores in my area. Had to resort to online order. I ordered some Americanagritech coco bricks last year, quite inexpensive.

Here's the link. Perhaps others can provide some other sources. I really love this stuff.
Cocogro Brick from Growco Indoor Garden Supply

[Aniko]

Currently I'm using the coir made by Fibre Dust LLC: www.fiberdust.com

They label the product (brick or bale) as 'PEAT made from coconut husk'.The name is tricky but the coir is the same good quality as Cocogro.

[Catcym]

Hi, I found a "Downtoearth" coir and I washed/pressed ten times a day. water came out still not clear. Anyway, I repotted a small Cym and a Phal in 50/50 coir perlite mix.
I'm anxious to see ...

[Catcym]

Ha Ha, I have repotted a few orchids so far in a few days. You may guess I'm a risk takerhttp://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif
Here are some pictures:
First one is a Phal changed from medium bark to coir/perlite 50/50 mix.
Second one is a Oncidium changed from fine bark to coir/perlite/charcoal 70/25/5 mix.
Third one is a small cym changed from fine bark to coir/perlite 70/30 mix.
I hope they like their new environmenthttp://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/ima.../gnt/itsme.gif

[mayres]

My only question is regarding the phal - media looks excellent in all cases from what I can see. I'm assuming the phal "pot" has some good drainage? Did you put a layer of styrofoam peanuts at the bottom? It is a little hard to tell but my only concern would be if the container is a little deep for your phal - is it an old plant with tons of roots down there? You just don't want several inches of media hanging around with no roots to absorb moisture - better to underpot than overpot.

[Catcym]

Mike, The phal is an old plant but has few roots. It was an exchange my sister gave me a month ago. It has been recovering from sickness and was in a big pot. The new container is made from a 2 qts fruit drink plastic bottle. I drilled a few holes and had an inch of styrofoam peanuts at the bottom.
I know the pot seems to be big but I'll keep an eye on it.
Clear plastic pot is really easy to see thru any moisture. I'll be very careful in watering.
Thanks,

[PalmCityOrchid]

Hi Everyone! Sounds like this stuff is great! I'd just asked PhalPal what she used for Phals! I've got some coir and perlite. Does the perlite have to be the coarse Perlite or can it be the smaller stuff (Miracle Gro)?

Thanks!

[PalmCityOrchid]

Almost forgot - I grow everything except my Phals in clay pots. Has anyone used this mix in clay pots for Catts, and if so, what has your experience been? Thanks again!

[mayres]

The smaller stuff seems to work fine for me - like you find in plant departments in smaller sacks. I have some of the larger that I purchased last winter to mix with bark and have not tried it with coir yet. Either one should help keep the coir mixture light and fluffy and not getting too compacted - so the more dense the coir material is that you have the more you are going to want/need to use of this. I have only used coir with one young catt seedling thus far - it works fine (so far).

[PalmCityOrchid]

Thanks Mike!

[PhalPal]

I use small everything.

[berkeleysgr8]

Someone was asking about where to buy coco chips. One of the local hydroponic shops ordered some "coco croutons" for me. You might want to ask at your local grow shops if they can help with your orders. I'm still very happy with the Cocogro bricks. They're only $2.99 for 8" square bricks... and the potting medium seems well rinsed and fluffy when re-hydrated. Unfortunately perlite couldn't be ordered in anything smaller than a 20 liter bag! *sigh*

[norris]

berkelysgr8, I got some coco husk chips and perlite from Oak Hill Gardens, and they came in small bags, they called them 'hobby size' bags.

[ratherbgardening]

I got a coir mix from Empire Organics. I can't post a link at this time. I got the 'coco coir'. It seems to me this would be a good mix, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'll mix it with perlite too, but I'm not sure how much I should use since the chips would aerate it too. Just add the the dot com to see it. Thanks!

[AllyOfTheLake]

I'm a newbie and couldn't figure out how to post a new thread... But this sort of answers my question. I was given a Phal as a gift, potted in Spagnium moss. Should I wait until it stops blooming to repot it?

I really want to try this mix.

[mayres]

As far as I can tell from a fair amount of experience - you can repot a phal ANYTIME and they do not skip a beat. Any phal I get I repot soon after acquisition because chances are very good it will have at least some compromised roots that should be removed - that has just been my experience from a host of sources.

[sandra]

Mike, I love your new avatar.

Sorry to get off topic.

[berkeleysgr8]

Mayres, I should repot my new orchids when I get them too... at least I'd know that the newbies needed similar care as my older plants. I killed a little 3 spike Phal a few months ago and a double spike Naples Nights because I left them in sphagnum (not a medium I am successful with).