Phal Repotting & Media

[mayres]

Yes - I have purchased a phal from two different growers that I have considered excellent growers/sellers - the plants looked really healthy, but both planted in sphag - when I got home and removed them from their pots I was horrified at the condition of the root systems - I wrote a letter of complaint to one of the growers and received no reply (disappointing) - the plant ended up loosing 2/3 of its foliage before I halted the decline and currently is but a shadow a year later from what I purchased. The second grower told me he would give me full credit for another plant. I think it is really important to know that any issues that surface down the road are from culture that YOU have provided versus damage caused by someone else.

[Catcym]

Hi Mike,
Today I'm surprised to find my Oncidium's bulbs are plump up. It's just 14 days after I switched from bark to coir. I'm very happy.

[mayres]

Excellent! Now your only challenge is to determine watering frequency so as not to keep them too damp - hopefully you have got that part figured out. This whole process is slightly different for all of us with slightly different conditions. Good luck!

[Sassismom]

Wow this is a great thread, I've been reading all the posts this morning. I was about to repot a phal, when I decided to come and have a look in here. Now I want to wait and see if I can find the coir. Is there anyone that knows where I might find it up here in S. Ontario, without ordering from the states.

[Sassismom]

I'm so happy, after my post I decided to do a little looking and found that the local hardwre store carries it and a 9lb. bale is $7. Is that a big brick and a good price?

[norris]

Yes, sounds like a good deal, and 9 lbs should last turn into quite a bit of mix when rehydrated.

[berkeleysgr8]

For the life of me, I cannot find charcoal! So, I'm going to try just a perlite and coir mix. I have enough perlite to truly last a lifetime. The bag is HUGE (even bigger than the 50 Liter bag of Hydroton)! I got it at a local hydroponics store for about $12. So, I'm going to try just coir and perlite. I have several plants that are in desperate need of repotting, so I'll start with those guys first! Thanks for the suggestion!

[butt0n]

Originally Posted by berkeleysgr8

For the life of me, I cannot find charcoal! So, I'm going to try just a perlite and coir mix. I have enough perlite to truly last a lifetime. The bag is HUGE (even bigger than the 50 Liter bag of Hydroton)! I got it at a local hydroponics store for about $12. So, I'm going to try just coir and perlite. I have several plants that are in desperate need of repotting, so I'll start with those guys first! Thanks for the suggestion!

I just went to my local nursery and found a small bag for less than $5...I would think OSH or Home Depot would have something similar.

[Catcym]

Originally Posted by butt0n

I just went to my local nursery and found a small bag for less than $5...I would think OSH or Home Depot would have something similar.

I bought a bag for about $5 at OSH. Home Depot doesn't carry it as I know.

[arleneg]

Originally Posted by berkeleysgr8

So, I'm going to try just a perlite and coir mix. I have enough perlite to truly last a lifetime.

Coir and perlite will work just fine. I've used this mix on some of my moisture loving plants. Make sure you put a little extra perlite in the mix, so the coir doesn't compact down after several watering.

I suggest using small to medium perlite with the coir.

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by berkeleysgr8

For the life of me, I cannot find charcoal! So, I'm going to try just a perlite and coir mix. I have enough perlite to truly last a lifetime. The bag is HUGE (even bigger than the 50 Liter bag of Hydroton)! I got it at a local hydroponics store for about $12. So, I'm going to try just coir and perlite. I have several plants that are in desperate need of repotting, so I'll start with those guys first! Thanks for the suggestion!

You can go to your local pet store. they often sell it in boxes.

[Sheltie57]

I believe that I might have found a similar product at our local garden center. It's called Sun-Cocopeat. I tried rehydrating a small amount of it and it looks exactly like the pictures in the first post. The sales clerk at the garden center said that they really like using it since it doesn't turn into mud. Since I live in Canada I was extremely happy to find some locally. And the price seemed very good too. It was $9.99 for a 5kg block.

Here's the web address if any Canadians want to find out more about it:

(opps...it appears that I can't post a URL until I've made 5 posts. I think I'm at 3 or 4. Sorry)

I've moved one of my small orchids into this mix. I only had perlite so that was all I used. My house tends to be very humid in summer so I hope I won't rot this plant. I'm thinking that I might need to mix it 50/50 with bark but I'll try the full strength mix first. :-)

The previous post said that you could use pet store charcoal if you can't find any in the garden stores. Has anyone else tried this?

Oh, and if you live in Manitoba and want to know where I got this coir, it was from Lacoste Garden Center on St. Mary's road just outside of Winnipeg. :-)

[Sassy Sal]

Originally Posted by berkeleysgr8

Mayres, I should repot my new orchids when I get them too... at least I'd know that the newbies needed similar care as my older plants. I killed a little 3 spike Phal a few months ago and a double spike Naples Nights because I left them in sphagnum (not a medium I am successful with).

I too like you should have repotted my new plants as I purchased them. Mind you they are still doing great but now they really do need to be done . Some of the roots have rotted or dried but they are making new ones . I have Phalaenopsis , 77 to be exact . Many have flowered and flowered a second and third time . I use sphagnum moss , orchid bark chips and charcoal in my mix and they do really well . I am also trying some cinnamon mixed in the mix as well , helps to ward off any bacterial infections and the like . Also when I repot , I rinse the roots in a mixture of listerine and water , an antiseptic so the roots don't get any infections.

[NinaG]

Originally Posted by mayres

As far as I can tell from a fair amount of experience - you can repot a phal ANYTIME and they do not skip a beat. Any phal I get I repot soon after acquisition because chances are very good it will have at least some compromised roots that should be removed - that has just been my experience from a host of sources.

This is good to know because I always freak when repoting Phals. There is always a root or two to get ridd off!

[Sheltie57]

I finally moved all of my orchids over to this potting mixture because the first few that I tried were doing so well. I can't say enough how awesome this mixture is doing for my orchids. They all stared growing new roots and new leaves and three are sending up a flower spike! I've only had two of my orchids rebloom for me before and it was not any of these three. THe only problem I can see is that the mixture is so light that it will not hold a stick firm enough to clip the flower spike to. Any suggestions?

Oh, by the way, I have 18 orchids. I've been bitten by the bug. :-)

[mayres]

Welcome! Yep - those bugs are really BIG "biters"! Never had a problem holding up a stake in this media if necessary - but for the most part I enjoy letting the plants handle their spikes in a natural way - not usually bothering with stakes.

[PhalPal]

Originally Posted by mayres

Never had a problem holding up a stake in this media if necessary - but for the most part I enjoy letting the plants handle their spikes in a natural way - not usually bothering with stakes.

I rarely use stakes either; I like them the natural way.

I have made a few adjustments to the coir mix I have been using. I deleted the diatomite and now add some rice hulls and cork chips for more aeration. For some of my orchids (mostly paphs) I use 1/2 coir and 1/2 shredded coconut husks. I get all my ingredients from repotme.com and just can't keep myself from tweeking perfection whenever I need to repot something. I'm still looking for that perfect Catt mix. My pseudobulbs have a tendency to stay shriveled no matter how much I water.

For all of you who grow Catts in bark, good for you!! It is just too dry here and won't work for me. I'm slowly adding more water retentive mix until I come up with something good.

[lissie0113]

awesome thread here! i am heading to a hydro store next week to pick up some of this stuff. i cant wait!

[articuno75]

Connie~ I have some Catts growing in a bark mix while others are in a coco husk mix. The coco husk mix has some charcoal, hydroton and packing peanuts. Ratios are 80%, 10%, 10% for the mix. The packing peanuts are filled about 1/4 of the bottom of the pot. I had a mini Catt that was in a bark mix that just wasn't up to par and after I moved it to this mix it has done much better. I don't know if this will work for you or not, but I know that Natt's Orchids has many Catt's growing in a coco husk mix.

[PhalPal]

Thanks Jenny! I bought some shredded coco husks from repotme and I really like the look and feel of this stuff. In fact, all of their media is just supreme. I'm going to repot a bunch of Catts tomorrow (some new, some I have had for a while) in the shred, rice hulls, and charcoal. The rice hulls are sort of a new thing to use in place of perlite, which tends to float to the top and wash away. It just lightens/opens up the mix.

[Sheltie57]

I also added bark chips to the bottom of the pots because this mixture was falling out the holes in the pots. I was thinking it might be a good idea to put something a little heavier in the bottom because some of my orchids were a little top heavy. I accidently knocked one of them over and had a mess to clean up. What would you suggest to use? I was thinking of something like coarse gravel but I'm not sure what orchids can tolerate. I also have some clay pellets that I tried for semi-hydroponics. Would it be ok to use them in the bottom of the pots? I gave up trying to raise my orchids in s/h. My house is just way too humid in the summer and I actually had mold growing on the top of the pellets. But this mixture seems to work awesome in my house, both summer and winter.

So it isn't necessary to attach the spikes to a stake? Do they look as nice without being staked?

Oh, by the way, number three is sending up a flower spike. Yippee!! At least, I think it's a spike...this one is slightly different than the other two, but it definitely doesn't look like a root.

[rcb]

Sheltie, when I need some weight in the pots, I use big pieces of lava rock in the bottom as my drainage, instead of styrofoam p'nuts. I always have a bag of it around, as I grow my angraceums, and some other species in it. When I started doing this, I was surprised to see how much the roots seem to like it, they grow right on down to it and wrap around them. You can get a bag of it from any box store.

[PhalPal]

Sheltie it is all about playing around to see what works in your environment, nothing wrong with trying new stuff. Orchids will tolerate just about anything that drains. I have used smooth little 'river rock' in the bottom of pots for extra weight. I also have a lot of pretty ceramic pots that I use for decoration when I bring my blooming orchids downstairs to enjoy. I just put the plastic pot into the ceramic and they don't tip over when in bloom.

Staking is largely just a matter of preference. Rarely do I have to stake a spike because I think it will snap off if I don't. In nature, phals grow with the leaves pointing down, not up, so the flowers grow downward also. Growers stake to save space too; they have more room on their benches if spikes point straight up. I like mine with a natural little bend so I don't stake at all.

[Sheltie57]

Since my space for my orchids is limited, I will still stake the spikes.

And thanks, rcb. I'll have to look for some lava rock the next time I'm shopping.

My first spike is now forming buds. :-)

Why is it that I still get excited each time one of my orchids flowers? :-)

[PhalPal]

Originally Posted by Sheltie57

Why is it that I still get excited each time one of my orchids flowers? :-)

That is why all of us are so addicted! That thrill never wears off.

[oncidiumlover]

So, how's about an update. How does everyone like this mix still?
I need to repot my phal and was thinking of using this. Pictures anyone?

[PhalPal]

I still love coir but have tweeked the original mix by adding tiny cork pieces for more drainage (also helps the coir not to compact) and shredded coco husks (about 1/3 of the mix) instead of so much coir. For some of my species or primary hybrids I add some chopped sphagnum as well. Keep in mind I have a very dry climate and have a difficult time with media drying out too quickly, especially in summer.

[mayres]

I still put EVERY phal in this media and they all seem to LOVE it!
I will add one word of caution that i have noted from using it for several years now. If you purchase a large "brick" and break off portions over time for use you MAY find that the brick is not evenly mixed - in terms of the quality of the contained material - I have noted some bricks contain portions of very fine material almost like dust/powder (that can excessively compact if not mixed with other coir/materials) and then at the other extreme sections may be quite airy/springy - almost like wooden steel wool. It appears that the best option might (?) be to break up and rehydrate the entire block/brick at once and mix with your other materials and keep stored for later use. I have yet to do this - but it seems like a good idea. I currently have a few plants (out of 60 or so) that have quite heavy/compacted media bases - doesn't seem to hurt the plants a bit - just can't water them but about every 2-4 weeks during the cool part of the year! I may get ambitious one of these days and redo a few to even them out with the rest?
Another important thing in my book is placing a good healthy portion of styrofoam peanuts in the bottom of the pot - especially if the plant is large and the pot is a good sized one. I just repotted my largest phal a couple months ago - back into coir - back into the same 8 inch pot - and there is about two inches of peanuts in the bottom - the huge mass of roots looked fabulous!

[oncidiumlover]

Thank you so much for the info, phal looks great. I've ordered the materials and am very excited to repot my phal and see how it does!
Has anyone had any luck with oncidiums in this mix? Mine came in a peat mix, so I'm thinking it would do well?

[delphiguy]

I have recently bought a phal, and I am not happy with the way it was potted, I will
definitely give this a try, I'm just waiting for the blooms to fade before i re-pot them.
Does this work with Dendrobiums as well? I have one that is kinda overpotted and im
planning on repotting it as well.

[PhalPal]

I use the same ingredients for everything I grow but alter the ratios to suit the orchid I want to pot.

[trinigirl]

Hi all,

I enjoyed reading about this Cocogro months ago, and I just finally bought a brick.

I have perlite to mix with it. Would that be okay to grow oncidiums in Houston? I will also put some phals in this mix.

Thanks.

[Tarad]

Lol I love it when this thread pops up every so often. Mike really should bag up his recipe and sell it. My phals did best in his medium ratio. Better than with Schultzs mix by far. But as montioned above you can play with the ratio depending where you live and the orchid you are potting Tara

[berkeleysgr8]

I will be taking vacation soon and plan to move the last few orchids I have in sphagnum moss into the coir mix. I've found that most of my orchids have adjusted quite nicely to a mix of coir and perlite. I may go on the hunt for charcoal to add too.

Trinigirl, I think you'll find that Oncidiums will do exceptionally well once they adjust to the new medium and develop new roots!

[koshki]

Mike, I've got a quick question...your ratios of 75:20:5...is that with the coir rehydrated or dry? I'm starting to mix, and I don't know whether or not to get it wet before measuring.

Thanks,
Koshki

[PhalPal]

koshi I don't think it will matter as long as you measure all the ingredients in the same state, either all of them wet or all of them dry. That way the percentage of each will remain the same.

[mayres]

You know I'm actually just making a visual approximation. In reality it might be 60:30:10 or 60:35:5 or some other such percentage. I usually break off pieces of coir from my brick to start off the process into a large plastic pail and then fluff it up with some water. Then I start adding perlite until it looks right visually. Lastly I add some charcoal to the mix. I stir the whole thing up and hope for the best!

[koshki]

I went ahead with your original ratio, using all dry ingredients. After thinking about this a bit I felt the ratios would change if rehydrated since the coir seems to be absorbing all the water. The 75/20/5 was easy for me to work out in the small quantities I used: 3 cups coir, 3/4 cup perlite, 1/4 cup charcoal. I'm not great at math, so I think I'll stick with this one!

I'm going to repot my dendrobiums today. I just can't seem to keep the bark chips hydrated enough, and I'm still too much of a beginner to feel confident.

BTW, I found the CocoGro at a local hydroponics store. What a hoot! I felt like I was back in Ann Arbor!

[mayres]

I've found the folks that work the two hydro stores in my area to be a "different breed" as well. Be careful not to pack the coir too tightly into the pots for your dends or they may stay wet toooooo long. I've noticed with my phals as well that there is quite a difference for watering needs based upon how "tightly" my repots are done. I've only tried this blend with one dend that had few remaining roots so couldn't tell if it really worked for dends well or not.....

[koshki]

Well, it's only been a few days since I repotted my ailing phal in your mix, but I'm delighted to report that it is doing very well!! The leaves are no longer floppy, and it seems quite happy! My only regret is that I didn't have any small clear plastic pots so that I could observe the roots.

Thanks so much for your recipe!!

[mayres]

Great! The "trick" now is coming up with the proper watering frequency to match. As you have noted, one of the nice things about the clear pots is you can see the condensate on the inside surface of the pots which tells you that there is no need to water yet. Of course you always have the bamboo skewer method noted on this forum. Also you soon learn much by simply picking up the pot/plant and noting how heavy it now is (works best with light plastic pots). Very light = water now. In my home and Oregon weather conditions the frequency can vary tremendously - in the dead of winter I can sometimes go about a month between waterings if the media is fairly densely potted and during the heat of the summer they won't even make it a week before needing water - maybe sometimes 2X per week. On average a weekly watering works for most sizes. Good luck!

[berkeleysgr8]

Hopefully I will have the time and energy this weekend to mix up some coir and perlite... I have several orchids that are in DESPERATE need of re-potting. I've been a very bad orchid mom for several months. *sigh*

[koshki]

Mike, yesterday, my recuperating phal in question fell off the table. I guess I wasn't watching it closely enough and it got dry. Since it is still top heavy, it just toppled over. No kitty bite marks, so that's my best guess on what happened.

Anyway, the roots were exposed and they look great! I had to trim back one that was questionable when I last potted it, but all the others, including the new ones, look very healthy and have active growing tips.

I repotted it, but this time I put a few of the marble chips that had been in the bowl under the pot into the bottom of the pot to give it a bit more heft. Some water and Superthrive, and it's good to go! I do think it's time for me to put them under some lights. The window is not getting as much light as it did during the summer.

Thanks again for your recipe...it has done wonders for my orchid-growing skills!

[mayres]

Excellent! That is great to hear.
This time of year the watering is cut waaaaay back with coir mix in my home environment context. I have not watered some of the larger plants for three weeks now and am not sure if I'm watering tomorrow yet or not? I'm sort of contemplating adding more styrofoam peanuts in the mid section of pots when they are quite large if/when there is any section of the pot which is mostly media and few roots? Will see! I've had a few fall off my stands too in the past few months from being too top heavy with long heavy spikes - I just repot them back up and generally speaking they just go on as if nothing happened!

[koshki]

Yes, definitely watering is slowing down here, too. I wish I had read about cones or peanuts in the center of the larger pots. I will do that the next time. The bigger ones take far fewers waterings than the little ones. I hate to say this, but I might be getting so many plants that I'm having a bit of a time making sure they're all watered properly! Naw....

[mayres]

A few things that help tremendously with the watering when you get larger numbers of phals (I have about 70) - with different sized pots and plants....
1) Use clear pots. If you see condensate inside it probably doesn't need to be watered.
2) Coir (when dry) and clear plastic pots weigh next to nothing. You can tell when they need to be watered by just lifting them up once you get the hang of it.
3) Careful not to pack in the wet/damp coir mix too much when repotting in order to stabilize the plant - I think I have errored a bit here - must be more careful in the future.
4) Sometimes I've noted a brick of coir is not uniformly mixed - and then when I de-brick it a piece at a time I get portions of nice fluffy material and then portions of small granular material. It would be better to do a bigger batch at once to get a more uniform coir material throughout multiple pots. My guess is that using a little more perlite with the finer material would help?
Still learning.................

[Brooke]

Mike I don't use the coir peat mix for any phals but do use it for the terrestrials I have and use 50% perlite. This was the recommendation when we used to do hydroponic growing for non-orchid seedlings. The coir peat never gets fungus gnats either

I am finding more and more vendors are using the coir/perlite mix for many orchids now because it reduces the watering routines in big g/h's.

Brooke

[Sheltie57]

I cannot say enough good things about this potting mix! My orchids are LOVING it! I think that almost all of my orchids are blooming this year. 6 of them are just finished blooming and 6 more have just started! In about 2 weeks we are moving to a condo. I'm a little worried how they will handle the move while they are blooming. :-(

[Phoenix7801]

I recently bought some vandaceous compots and I was wondering if this would be a good mix to start them off in. I know eventually theyll get bigger and need a much more open mix but since theyll be kinda small ya know.

[rePotme]

Hello Everyone,

We were reading this thread and considering the comments regarding types of coir. We currently carry the finer grade which is "peat like" as was mentioned in the thread, and would like to let you know that we also bringing in the longer fiber type as a result of reading the posts here. It will join our shredded coconut husk, small, medium and large coconut chips and finer grade coir. We expect delivery of the American Agritech Botanicare coir in 3/4 inch fiber in the next several days. We will offer it by the quart and larger quantity like our other mediums, and most likely by the brick too. Thank you for alerting us to the interest in this other size of coir.

All the best!

---rePotme.com

[koshki]

Dang! I JUST received my order from you today, and I was looking for that very thing!

[AprilsOrchids]

Originally Posted by mayres

Check cynthia's thread of the skewer method - Skewer use for watering of orchids
This potting mixture should work - but it definately will take more monitoring to make sure you don't over water. People often get away with watering on a routine schedule with bark - say once a week. With coir mix it will vary depending upon the time of year - could be as long as 3-4 weeks depending upon your conditions.

i was a too lazy waterer with my phals and two out of three of them stopped flowering and one grew a keiki.

i was watering every two or three weeks in toronto in the winter without understanding anything about good watering practise (which i am making up for by reading, reading, reading here)

so, i'm trying watering once a week now and each plant has its own skewer, so that i can check that BEFORE watering (as well as the pot weight at the same time to learn this method too); but it sounds like these coir mixes would be a better solution, along with proper checking on dampness/dryness BEFORE watering. HELP

also, i have added one small paph to my collection and have read that they like their roots to stay moist and should not dry out as completely as the phals, so maybe coir and/or some loose sphrag would be good for this plant.

help - this is where it gets confusting;
orchid genus + medium + area + time of year + good watering practice

fyi, the paph i have is a small;
paph hsinying web red wizard X
paph hsinying rocket blood ruby

with six lmottled-coloured leaves
grower siad it it will throw a spike soon, like the others he had

in an east facing window.

hope this is the right place to put this post.
if not, please let me know.
thx,
April