Favorite growing medium for Cattleyas?

[nightqueen049]

I have my cattleya in a 4" terracotta pot with bark as the potting medium. As I have mentioned in a previous post, I find that the medium dries out insanely quickly, probably because of the low humidity in my house. This medium just isn't working for me. I recently came across a post by Plucker on how to repot catts, and I just might try that method, but before I do I was wondering what was everyone else's favorite method of growing cattleyas. Potted or mounted? What mediums? etc. I love seeing how many different and sometimes ingenious ways people find to grow a single kind of orchid!

[psyc1210]

I grow mine potted in slotted plastic pots, with aliflor and hydroton as the media

[Algyros]

I use Hydroton using s/h. So far, my catts have adapted to it quite well.

[Shannara]

I also use Aliflor, Stalite, or LECA mixed with charcoal. I have found that my Catt's want to be watered frequently and dry out quickly. I have never had success with my Catt's in any other medium. I do have some mounted on wood, treefern, or cork with no medium at all and they are very happy too. In the Summer I usually water once a day, or every other day, depending if it has rained or not (I keep my orchids outside except in winter). During the winter I water maybe once a week depending on how much Sun exposure they get.

HTH

Shann~

[rcb]

I think it depends on what kind. Are you talking about the Catt alliance, or specific Cattleyas? Species or complex hybrids?

Not all Catts require the same conditions.

But for typical ones, I do the same, Hydroton in slotted plastic pots. A few in Hydroton in clay pots. For some others, Hydroton in net pots. And other ones get mounted.

Personally, I try to adjust the pot or mount so they all get watered at the same time. So the ones that need to dry more quickly are in the more open pots, and ones that can take a little longer to dry are in the plastic pots.

[syndywindy]

I grow many catts and they are potted in different ways. Some are growing in S/H, some in hydroton with slotted pots, some a bark mix and a few in a combo of bark and hydroton. All do well for me. I just started moving some into the hydroton and slotted pots but am waiting to see how they do before moving more. Other geeks swear by this but I put one toe in the water before diving in.

[-k-]

Fir Bark, charcoal, perlite and sphagnum moss; seems to work well for me.

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by -K-

Fir Bark, charcoal, perlite and sphagnum moss; seems to work well for me.

I have learned that a fir bark, charcoal and perlite mix is appropriate in my conditions. I have a humidifer in the house heating distribution system. I rarely use sphagnum with this combination as it tends to keep the medium too moist.

I have chosen to increasingly use LECA (light expanded clay aggregates) for some Catts in recent years. It depends on the species and my experiences. I grow very few hybrids. I don't bother growing in S/H conditions - too much effort!

I grow without the benefit of a greenhouse.

--Stitz--

[katrina]

Originally Posted by rcb

I think it depends on what kind. Are you talking about the Catt alliance, or specific Cattleyas? Species or complex hybrids?

Not all Catts require the same conditions.

Ditto what Renee said. One size does not fit all when it comes to all plants in the Cattleya alliance.

I have some mounted...a mix of tree fern and cork. But, most are potted. I use a variety of mediums...lava rock, leca, granite chips, chc, cork chips/chunks, and stalite. I mix some of the mediums and other times I use one or another straight...it depends on the particular plant and it's needs, as well as the size of the pot.

I do find that all of these mediums dry fairly fast...especially under the HO T5 lights.

Almost forgot, I also use sphag to some degree w/seedlings and plants that arrived root compromised. I also sometimes top dress "high" roots w/it if they are a good deal higher than the rest of the medium.

[nightqueen049]

Thanks everyone for your informative posts! I had no idea so many people were using the s/h method.

For the record, I'm growing a NoID Cattleya seedling from Lowes. It looks like your run-of-the-mill Cattleya with the frilly, corsage-type blossom advertised on the tag when I bought it.

[katrina]

Just so we're all on the same page...I don't grow S/H...I simply use the LECA as a medium. Several others do the same.

[nightqueen049]

Yeah, I have to admit that I'm a little confused. I have noticed people posting that they use the s/h method (which I actually was unaware of until I joined this forum), and I also noticed people using products like hydroton or LECA (which I thought were for s/h) but, as you say, not doing s/h. I think I need to read up on s/h and figure out the differences between using mediums like LECA in s/h vs. non-s/h ways.

Someone save me from my ignorance!

[Algyros]

S/h is when you grow with LECA in a pot that has a reservoir of water at the bottom. Usually, that's achieved by having a plastic pot with two holes about an inch from the bottom. When you water, water remains in the part of the pot below the holes, and the idea is that water is then wicked up into the LECA as it dries.

BTW, the quote from Leonard Cohen is perhaps the wisest thing anyone has ever said about anything. Leonard Cohen is one of the brightest lights in my life.

[edgy]

What does it mean when roots are growing out of the top of the medium????? I have one Catt that ihas about a 6-7 inch root growing out of the top and a couple other smaller wones starting to grow out....Is it lack of watering?

[nightqueen049]

Originally Posted by Algyros

S/h is when you grow with LECA in a pot that has a reservoir of water at the bottom. Usually, that's achieved by having a plastic pot with two holes about an inch from the bottom. When you water, water remains in the part of the pot below the holes, and the idea is that water is then wicked up into the LECA as it dries.

BTW, the quote from Leonard Cohen is perhaps the wisest thing anyone has ever said about anything. Leonard Cohen is one of the brightest lights in my life.

As you can tell, I love Cohen too. He's truly gifted and inspiring.

Thanks for clearing up what s/h is. Then just using LECA as a medium in a non-s/h way would be to not have the reservoir at the bottom, and just water everyday, am I right?

[nightqueen049]

Originally Posted by edgy

What does it mean when roots are growing out of the top of the medium????? I have one Catt that ihas about a 6-7 inch root growing out of the top and a couple other smaller wones starting to grow out....Is it lack of watering?

If the catt is having that much growth, I don't think it's being underwatered. Are the pseudobulbs shrivelled looking, and what color are the roots? It sounds to me like it just needs repotting. What does everyone else think?

[edgy]

You know.....this is a bag baby that I got at home depot a couple years ago. It is a chocolate drop volcano queen......it has several 10-15canes....the tallest being 4-5 inches or so.....they are looking a little shriveled right now because I have been backing off the water a little, they look healthy....I'm so frustrated with my Catts...I have 2, both bag babies...neither of them have bloomed...it's been over two years now. Not sure what to do with these little guys.......

[Algyros]

Originally Posted by nightqueen049

As you can tell, I love Cohen too. He's truly gifted and inspiring.

Thanks for clearing up what s/h is. Then just using LECA as a medium in a non-s/h way would be to not have the reservoir at the bottom, and just water everyday, am I right?

Right. It's really hard to overwater when using hydroton or other LECA. But perhaps someone who really knows what he's talking about, like Ray, can chime in.

[nightqueen049]

Originally Posted by edgy

You know.....this is a bag baby that I got at home depot a couple years ago. It is a chocolate drop volcano queen......it has several 10-15canes....the tallest being 4-5 inches or so.....they are looking a little shriveled right now because I have been backing off the water a little, they look healthy....I'm so frustrated with my Catts...I have 2, both bag babies...neither of them have bloomed...it's been over two years now. Not sure what to do with these little guys.......

I heard somewhere that it takes a Cattleya years to become mature enough to bloom. I tried to find that information again to give you a more specific answer, but couldn't track it down...I'll let you know if I find it.

Anyway, if it was a bag baby and you haven't seen it bloom previously, then there is a chance that it is just not mature enough to bloom yet, and even two years might not have been enough. If they are healthy-looking, my advice is just to be patient, give it the right conditions to allow it to bloom when it is ready, and if the roots are all over the place, to repot it (but only if you see new growth on the roots. If not, wait until you see the new growth). Correct me if I'm wrong, anyone who has real experience and more than just book-knowledge on this subject!

[edgy]

Thanks for the help.....yeah, the roots are growing everyday it looks a little longer and liek I said,,,new ones are starting to creep out

[rcb]

Originally Posted by nightqueen049

Then just using LECA as a medium in a non-s/h way would be to not have the reservoir at the bottom, and just water everyday, am I right?

Yes kind of. I use the LECA instead of an organic medium ie bark, CHC, etc. I have very few plants in S/H, but a lot of plants planted the traditional way, in LECA.

As for the watering every day, depends on the conditions. Under the exact same conditions, the LECA dries out faster than an average organic mix usually. In summer, I'm watering every sunny day. Now, much less often.

BTW, I switched to using the LECA about a year ago. Love it love it love it. Can't imagine ever going back to a bark mix.

[rcb]

Originally Posted by edgy

Thanks for the help.....yeah, the roots are growing everyday it looks a little longer and liek I said,,,new ones are starting to creep out

While it's definitely not unusual for roots to do their thing, I would be suspicious if all of a sudden a bunch of roots are trying to creep out the top of the pot. That would send up a red flag for me.

[edgy]

What would be your thoughts on that???....I'll take a shot of it when I get home tonight and post it.

[Shannara]

Here are some pics of my orchids growing in aliflor with some stalite and charcoal.

These are my Encyclias:



Close up of the medium on my Psychopsis:



I won't use sphagnum in my collection so I even potted up my Neofinetia in a dry mix though they are popularly mounded up in sphagnum. Hopefully it will do well for me.



Shann~

[berniep]

G'Day NQ49

This is the link to Ray's lnfo. First Rays' Free Info

Cheers
Bernie

[jerrymeola]

edqy

roots growing out the top of a Cattleya pot is a certain indication of bad potting medium. When medium gets too old the roots will not grow into it. Fresh medium and the roots always go down into the medium.

To clear up some of the misconceptions on age of Cattleya to flower, a cat will be in a flask for 1 to 1 /12 years. Typically they go to a plug tray (92 openings in a 10x20 inch tray). They will stay in this for up to two years. So a one inch pot can be over three years old.

species can take up to 8 years to flower but the newer hybrids flower in under 5. I typically take plugs and pot them in 4 inch pots to flower in 18 months. The plugs I potted last October 2009 to January are beginning to flower now. The tags state they were deflasked in 2006.

A 10-15 pseudobulb Chocolate Drop should be covered in flowers. They will flower as early as the 4-5th pseudobulb. Change the medium to fresh mix and give it more light. Cattleya really do not like to flower under 3000 foot candles.

Chocolate drop blooms in early summer for me around May.

[jerrymeola]

for Nightqueen's original question I grow my Cattleya very wet so I use 45% charcoal mixed with 45% bark and 10% perlite.

For a wetter mix you can add sphagnum to a bark mix to hold more water

[katrina]

I don't necessarily agree that roots growing out of the medium are an indication of bad mix, underwatering or the likes. Some just do this. I have several that are perfectly healthy and happy and yet some of the roots wander up and all over the place. From the tops, out the sides, out through the slits, out from the bottom...they wander all over the place. My Yellow Bird grows roots from everywhere and this past Summer it tried to attached itself to the shade shelves.

In nature, a cattleya (or just about any epiphyte) sends it's roots out in all directions looking for a place to take hold. Just because it's in a pot doesn't mean it's natural tendency will be stopped. Some stay contained perfectly...others wander about.

With this said...listen to the plant. If it's outgrown it's pot, the roots could be wandering because there is not room in the pot. If it's healthy and the medium is not broken down...could just be the plant doing it's thing.

Anyone would be hard pressed to call this plant anything but healthy. This is an example of what I'm talking about...roots rambling in all directions. I have other pics but can't find them right now. This plant is due for a repot but it's always done this even after a fresh repot. It just likes some of it's roots up and out. Oh, and BTW - last repot on this one...in LECA and cork chunks...there wasn't more than a couple of bad roots. I knocked off the loose pieces and up-potted and back filled. There is no broken down, rotting medium in this pot.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Cattleya really do not like to flower under 3000 foot candles.

Too general of a statement there Jerry.

I have several smaller catt alliance hybrids that normal catt light burns them.

I also have a couple of catt alliance that take nearly full sun in the Summer and I'm still having trouble getting them to bloom.

The majority of my catts do follow the 2500-3500 fc standard but...as w/the potting and the culture...one size does not fit all when it comes to light levels either.

[Brooke]

I have to agree with Katrina. I have catt roots growing in the media, over the edge of pots, through the slits of the pots, even out of the bottom of the pots almost to the ground. I never let the roots grow into the gravel of the floor into the soil under the gravel. I cut them off to before they touch the gravel. I even have catt roots that grow up the pbulb onto the leaves.

I use Prime Agra as the potting media and am totally eliminating all bark mixtures. My catts in P.A. are the fastest growing and appear to be very happy with this combo.

Having said all of that, I still say regardless of the media used, proper watering and appropriate light gives the best results.

Edgy with that many pbulbs, try increasing the light for blooms.

Brooke

[syndywindy]

I also have many catts with roots growing all over the place. Even straight up to the point they are taller than some of the pb's and leaves. I let them do their thing, if they seem happy then so am I.

[rcb]

Sorry ladies, I disagree if you don't mind. There is a big difference between some roots growing out of the pot, especially if the plant is close to the edge. We all have this. As I stated, roots will do their thing.

But if you have a plant that all of a sudden won't put the majority of roots down into the pot, or the roots start to go into the pot, and turn back on themselves to get out of the pot then again, that makes me suspicious. And I would check out what is inside that pot.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by edgy

You know.....this is a bag baby that I got at home depot a couple years ago. It is a chocolate drop volcano queen......it has several 10-15canes....the tallest being 4-5 inches or so.....they are looking a little shriveled right now because I have been backing off the water a little, they look healthy....I'm so frustrated with my Catts...I have 2, both bag babies...neither of them have bloomed...it's been over two years now. Not sure what to do with these little guys.......

@ edgy,
Catts need really high light (really high) to bloom if they don't get it they don't bloom : / its also possible they are not old enough to bloom also unless you purchased them in bloom....
Sounds like they are dehydrated if shriveling you may need to do some timed soakings to plump them back up.

Me I use a bark, perlite, charcoal mix wit a tad bit of coir in the mix to help hold a bit of moisture for them especially in the summer time it helps because I don't get to water enough with my schedule so the coir in the mix helps me not kill them from under watering.

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by rcb

Sorry ladies, I disagree if you don't mind. There is a big difference between some roots growing out of the pot, especially if the plant is close to the edge. We all have this. As I stated, roots will do their thing.

But if you have a plant that all of a sudden won't put the majority of roots down into the pot, or the roots start to go into the pot, and turn back on themselves to get out of the pot then again, that makes me suspicious. And I would check out what is inside that pot.

The plant I was referring to was a catt Fire Dance 'Patricia' 'which has a few roots growing straight up. This is an orchid I almost killed thanks to overwatering.I nursed it back to health and was recently repotted and the root system in the pot was amazing, healthy and thick. It is in an appropriate sized pot so new roots in theory you would think would grow down into the pot. These roots grew straight up and I am very confident there are no issues within the pot. Maybe a fluke, I don't know, but the plant is in sheath so it can't be too bad.

[edgy]

Here are two photos of the Catt.....I repotted in April in Better Gro...special orchid mix...bark charcoal and pearlite so I'm not sure that the medium is bad just yet. Thnaks for the feedback thus far.

[Ladyofthelakes]

Originally Posted by rcb

While it's definitely not unusual for roots to do their thing, I would be suspicious if all of a sudden a bunch of roots are trying to creep out the top of the pot. That would send up a red flag for me.

Red flag why? Some bug or snail. I have a catt that should have bloomed last Sept and did not. It did however grow lots of new roots, one new pbulb. It is in very course bark mix. I was thinking today I should repot, but unsure of what to use. After reading this post, must say, very confused.

The pbulbs are shriveled, so today I put damp moss on top of the roots, careful not to tightly though.

[-k-]

Originally Posted by Ladyofthelakes

It is in very course bark mix. I was thinking today I should repot, but unsure of what to use. After reading this post, must say, very confused.

The pbulbs are shriveled, so today I put damp moss on top of the roots, careful not to tightly though.

You might want to consider a mix the will retain a bit more moisture, your growing environment will help dictate which mix will be best suitable for your conditions. Sphagnum layered on top of the medium although beneficial for temporary moisture retention can dry before the rest of the medium needs watering. The roots that are directly exposed to the dry sphagnum can quickening their dehydration and could consequently damage roots.

[katrina]

Sorry Renee...my bad. I should've been more clear as to who I was responding too when I said "I don't necessarily agree...". I was commenting on Jerry's comment of "roots growing out the top of a Cattleya pot is a certain indication of bad potting medium".

I agree...if the plant is all of sudden throwing it's roots out of the pot and/or if it's been way too long for a repot...that could mean something could be going wrong in the pot. However, I don't agree w/Jerry's statement that roots growing outside a pot absolutely means there is something wrong. That all or nothing comment is incorrect and over-generalized.

Edgy - your first plant looks good except it looks a bit dark. Could be the lighting in the pic...but the dark color could also be an indication of not enough light. The other one looks dehydrated. I know people who use that particular potting mix w/good success but I found that due to all the tiny bits and dust in the mix...if you don't rinse it properly, it can get very compacted and end up suffocating the roots. My first year growing I used that to pot my catts and I had a pretty mixed bag of results. I didn't rinse/soak it to get rid of all the fine particulates and unfortunately, I had quite a few that ended up w/root rot. So, if you didn't rinse/soak that stuff out of it...check the roots to be sure.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Ladyofthelakes

Red flag why? Some bug or snail. I have a catt that should have bloomed last Sept and did not. It did however grow lots of new roots, one new pbulb. It is in very course bark mix. I was thinking today I should repot, but unsure of what to use. After reading this post, must say, very confused.

The pbulbs are shriveled, so today I put damp moss on top of the roots, careful not to tightly though.

After seeing your other thread showing your basement and light set up...I would look at light level.

As you can see by all the posts here...orchids can grow in a lot of different mediums. As long as whatever you're using matches up with the needs of the orchid...that orchid can and will grow in or on it.

If the plant is healthy and growing...a new mix isn't going to make it bloom. Look at your light level. Cattleyas can continue to put out roots and new growths under less than ideal light but if the light isn't high enough...you'll have trouble getting them to bloom.

[edgy]

Thanks Katrina....I'll do that. Ijust repotted in april so I didn't want to pull it out and disturb it so soonbut it might be necessary. thanks again and happy holidays!

[FLBob]

Just a couple of thoughts...

Potting medium is defiantly not a "one size fits all" proposition. Choosing a potting mix is matching the growing conditions you have with the requirements of the plant. With hundreds of Cattleya alliance plants, I have different proportioned mixes and growing styles, plant dependant.

The components of my mixes include leca, tree fern, charcoal, sponge rock, coconut chips, Dyna-rok and sphagnum moss. Plants that have adapted to extended periods of drought (large psuedobulbs, thick waxy leaves ) will have a dry mix. Those that have thinner psuedobulbs will have more of the moisture retentive components in the mix. Some times it trial and error to get a compatible growing environment for the plant.

Potting mix is also not the way to cure other cultural deficiencies. So if you are dealing with low humidity a wetter medium is not the solution. Creating a micro-climate around the plant with higher humidity is the better approach.

Also if your medium is drying out quickly and you're growing Catts, that's a good thing. Work on getting the humidity levels up around the plant, and adjust your watering to keep the plant from becoming desiccated.

If roots growing outside of the pot was a problem, then I'd have nothing but problems. I have many plants that have completely covered the outside of the pot, and appear to be doing just fine. My C.Chocolate Drop has three foot roots hanging off the side of the pot.

I've heard the point that Jerry made about roots choosing to grow out of the pot because the medium is compromised, and I just have not seen enough evidence to be convinced. If the medium in bad, then the roots that attempt to grow in the bad medium will die, and those that grow outside of the medium will live.

[Bolero]

I am growing some in small bark with charcoal and perlite mixed in. I don't think it works as well as using a simply mix of perlite and fine peat moss though. If you find that your mix is drying out quickly then perlite and a small amount of peat moss will work wonders for you.

[digitalgate]

I tend to agree with Jerry about roots growing out of the media. From his point of view is when the media is really bad for the plant. In general Cat will regrow new roots on top of the media as the bottom roots has already rotted. If that dont happen then the pseudobulb might rot if the rot don't stop there. While it still need water , growing on top of the media make sense as new roots probably like to be on dry side while old pseudobulb provide it with some energy to grow. I guess that the nature's way of preventing fungus from taking over.

[Bolero]

I don't think it's always the case where roots grow above the media because it's rotting underneath. Sometimes they just grow across the top as they start higher on the plant.

I have also seem occasions where the pot is so full of roots there is no where else to grow but above the media. I know that is probably not the case in this scenario but it does happen so it's just a good idea to be mindful of other possibilities at times.

But yes, the roots can grow above the media when it;s no longer suitable for root growth such as rotting bark.