L. anceps: plastic or pottery?

[Izzie]

So. There's this L. anceps division that's been hanging out on my patio. It's a large, lanky division in a 6" pot. The pot is terra cotta, with coarse bark mix.
The plant has been loving it in nearly full sun, and matured two new leads this summer.

It's time to repot and bring it inside, and I find myself at a crossroads.

I was gifted a large opaque plastic pot (long story) from OH when I bought from them at my past orchid show- same size as the clay pot, and I'm wondering if it might be more advantageous in my climate than the clay.

I was thinking of repotting into either all leca (not s/h) or 50:50 leca and coarse bark.

My thinking in switching to the new plastic pot is that of course, it will not dry out as fast- as a lot of my plants do in my very dry (and extremely dry in the winter) environment.

I know these guys like perfect drainage and lots of air and water. And a good drying out between watering.
Hence, why I'm on the fence about switching.

Plus- being a dark opaque pot, it'll really cook in the summer when it's in full sun (which it LOVED this summer, while in the clay pot.)- but I could put it into a clay cache pot to keep it cooler.

But I STILL think that even though it's rupiculous, it will appreciate it's roots staying somewhat more humid in the plastic pot.

And now, of course, I'm also undecided about which media to use. x.x



ETA: Should add, this plant is far too large for me to mount (about a two foot total leaf-span across). Or at least to grow as a mount in my space.

[rcb]

Couple things to consider. Why do you want to repot at this time? Going into fall I don't think is the best time to repot this one, as it really does need a dryer winter rest in order to bloom well. Unless the roots are in bad shape, but it doesnt seem like it from what you've written.

Secondly, it is an epiphyte, not a rupi. But either way, good drainage is critical for this one.

I guess my thoughts are since you mentioned how well it did in it's current set up, why would you want to change? If the new leads that matured over the summer look good, and the roots look good, then it's happy with what it has right?

But if you really want to repot, then LECA and clay dries really really fast. Down here, in our higher humidity, I have plants in LECA and plastic pots, and they still needed watered every sunny day in the summer. Although we have a lot of air movement, being near the coast.

As for your opaque pot and heat, anceps can easily take very hot temps, ie close to 100F in summer, no problem.

So basically, if you really need to repot now, I'd be on the fence also. But my instincts are saying, if it's working fine the way it is, don't change it.

[kmarch]

Renee has pointed out some important misconceptions you might be operating under. Please take her advice to heart. In this instance, my advice is: "If it ain't broke don't fix it."

[Izzie]

It's getting repotted because everything that's out in the elements during the summer is infested with gnat larvae. Had a big row with them last winter, so now anybody coming inside gets repotted (almost) no matter what.

I'll detail everything else later. In the mean time- thank you for replying!

[katrina]

Another aspect to point out...we are going into the bloom season for anceps. Repotting at the wrong time can really set anceps back for more than year. [ask me how I know this.]

While I have a good number of catts that I can repot anytime and they never skip a beat...anceps is one that does much better if repotted at the proper time. The most important factor being when new roots are just getting started.

[Brooke]

Unless your bark is very very broken down, you won't have gnat larva or eggs in the mix. Will a gnat buzz the bark, yes but it will not lay eggs in bark. Gnats will even buzz the leca pots looking for a place to enter.

I had a couple of gnats in my house last night annoying me. I have two house plants, neither one has been repotted in years and never outside but the gnats still find a way into the house.

Brooke

[katrina]

Good point Brooke!

[jerrymeola]

annceps should be in bloom now. In Florida they have been in bloom for a month. It is the end of the season here.

I find that they need to grow very dry in Florida and I only do well with mounted Laelia.

If you want to pot I would use very large bark so that it is almost bare root in the pot and use the Terra cotta.

[FLBob]

Izzie I cringed when I read that you repot everything prior to moving them back inside for the winter. I totally understand the problem of stowaways inside the pot. I have the same issue when we have a cold snap here in SW Florida. But I grow for the blooms and it's my experience that repotting catts reduces the number and size of the flowers for the first year.
So you might look for an alternative approach to clearing the pots before bringing them in.
I flood my pots to see what attempts to escape before bringing my plants inside. If I discover that insects are in a pot then I will treat that pot for the specific infestation.

I like to grow in clay over plastic. I like the stability of the heavier pot, especially for my larger plants.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

annceps should be in bloom now. In Florida they have been in bloom for a month. It is the end of the season here.

My anceps is just starting to show the sheaths so it'll be another month (maybe 2) before I see blooms. I think bloom time depends on the plant AND the growing location. Dec, Jan and Feb being the time frame when most Northern hemisphere plants bloom.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by katrina

Another aspect to point out...we are going into the bloom season for anceps. Repotting at the wrong time can really set anceps back for more than year. [ask me how I know this.]

While I have a good number of catts that I can repot anytime and they never skip a beat...anceps is one that does much better if repotted at the proper time. The most important factor being when new roots are just getting started.

Whew! Finally have time to reply. Wow- thank you for all the feedback everyone! This is splendid, I appreciate it.

This plant was divided just last February, and although it is quite large, it only has 4 pseudo bulbs. I was told by several people that it is probably not ready to flower again yet, but am willing to believe that that might not be entirely true.

Perhaps I should not have put my (almost) caveat in parenthesis regarding always repotting. If the plant is thriving and for sure has no evidence of buggers, I soak it and leave it be.
However, I had suspicions about this guy and dug into the mix a bit and found several slimy pieces of bark covered in larvae. So. Repotted it was!

I've researched this specie's culture, but was not aware that L. anceps resented poorly timed repotting, glad for the heads up!
I will remember that for the future- most of the roots this time around had active branches and tips.

[btw, how do you know this? ]

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by rcb

Secondly, it is an epiphyte, not a rupi.

I guess my thoughts are since you mentioned how well it did in it's current set up, why would you want to change?

So basically, if you really need to repot now, I'd be on the fence also. But my instincts are saying, if it's working fine the way it is, don't change it.

I must have been misinformed, I've always thought of the Mexican Laelias as rupics.
What a great reply! I like all those details.

I ended up not entirely changing. This morning, the bug-free plant was plunked back into it's terra cotta pot, but I changed the media from coarse bark to 50:50 coarse bark and leca, with mostly bark on top.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Unless your bark is very very broken down, you won't have gnat larva or eggs in the mix. Will a gnat buzz the bark, yes but it will not lay eggs in bark. Gnats will even buzz the leca pots looking for a place to enter.

Brooke

Hmmm. The bark this guy was in was fresh and crispy from a reputable source when it was first potted up- which is why I was so surprised to already find feasting larvae earlier this summer. Perhaps there were a couple pieces that were more decomposed than the rest.

Good point though!

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by FLBob

Izzie I cringed when I read that you repot everything prior to moving them back inside for the winter. I totally understand the problem of stowaways inside the pot. I have the same issue when we have a cold snap here in SW Florida. But I grow for the blooms and it's my experience that repotting catts reduces the number and size of the flowers for the first year.
So you might look for an alternative approach to clearing the pots before bringing them in.
I flood my pots to see what attempts to escape before bringing my plants inside. If I discover that insects are in a pot then I will treat that pot for the specific infestation.

I like to grow in clay over plastic. I like the stability of the heavier pot, especially for my larger plants.

I clarified why I repotted this one in the bolded post above. I see what you're saying though.
This was my first year summering outside, so I was a bit nervous- especially since a good number of special orchids were added to the indoor collection over the past months. Definitely did not want to risk them. I hope with the new mix I've repotted in, I will not have to repot next winter.
x.x and you see so much controversy over what to do with pots coming in....dunk in insecticide...just soak forever...soak in neem oil....drench...

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Izzie

I've researched this specie's culture, but was not aware that L. anceps resented poorly timed repotting, glad for the heads up!
I will remember that for the future- most of the roots this time around had active branches and tips.

[btw, how do you know this? ]

My personal experience (one of my best teachers) in growing this plant for a few years. As well as the knowledge I've gleaned from a couple of waaaay more experienced growers in my local OS.

Almost forgot...Charles Baker [of Charles and Margaret Baker] also support this tid-bit of information.

[Bolero]

I am just going to agree with everything listed above......I can't flower mine though.........weird.

[Brooke]

Originally Posted by Izzie

Hmmm. The bark this guy was in was fresh and crispy from a reputable source when it was first potted up- which is why I was so surprised to already find feasting larvae earlier this summer. Perhaps there were a couple pieces that were more decomposed than the rest.

Good point though!

You have very interesting fungus gnats in Colorado

Gnat eggs need constant moisture to hatch so the interior of your pot must never have dried out. Thankfully it sounds from your other posts the roots weren't harmed

Brooke

[maria1971]

I'll share my experiences with Laelia anceps. Most of my collection is comprised of either species anceps or Lc.'s.

Here you go.

I've grown them in LECA with plastic pots and with LECA with clay (recently moved them all to clay pots).

THEY ABSOLUTELY LOVE CLAY.

Yes, they grew very well in plastic, but for some reason, they are absolutely adoring clay. I, like you, prefer the flexibility of plastic re: display, but I'd just had enough of trying to find the "perfect" cachepot, which evidently did not exist in my OCD world.

So, this summer, I switched everyone over to clay. Like I said, they are loving it. I have about 6 or 7? in spike right now.


I don't know your growing conditions, but I live in Miami, the land of humid and hot. LECA dries out super duper fast. It dried out faster in plastic than in clay though.


My Laelias are just now *starting* to create buds. Some of them blasted the spike immediately, and, one that did, produced a second, healthy spike almost immediately. I'm crossing my fingers.

My policy is to repot anything that comes into my home, but some of them are too far along in the process to distrurb.

[JLu]

Well, few questions......why do you think you have "gnat larvae" ( I assume you mean fungus gnats). There are many other possibilities that are more possible...like any other insect for example. No matter what you have why not just drench the pot with a simple insecticide like Merit? Re-potting seems a drastic measure to fix the issue if your medium is in good condition when a simple insecticide treatment will do the job.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by JLu

Well, few questions......why do you think you have "gnat larvae" ( I assume you mean fungus gnats). There are many other possibilities that are more possible...like any other insect for example. No matter what you have why not just drench the pot with a simple insecticide like Merit? Re-potting seems a drastic measure to fix the issue if your medium is in good condition when a simple insecticide treatment will do the job.

1. Because I poked around and found several once-good pieces of bark covered in larvae and their saliva slimey grossness.
2. Because I'd rather get rid of the medium that they have aided in decomposing. In my experience, once the larvae have set in, even after you get rid of them, you are left with many pieces of bark that have been degraded and are less than what I would prefer to have my plant growing in. That's my experience.
Hope that clarifies. May be drastic, but no way am I going to war again this winter, it was too taxing last year on plant and grower.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by Brooke

You have very interesting fungus gnats in Colorado

Gnat eggs need constant moisture to hatch so the interior of your pot must never have dried out. Thankfully it sounds from your other posts the roots weren't harmed

Brooke

You know our gnats, they're as big as birds! Gotta get out the big guns.

[JLu]

Izzie, I'm not sure what you have, but you seem unaware of it's effects and opportunities to kill it and prevent the excessive re-potting. There may be insect larvae that eat bark, but I assure you that fungus gnat larvae do not eat bark. True, constantly wet media of any kind is a place for fungus gnats to lay eggs. The larvae eat plant roots. This won't occur if the bark is in good shape and dries between waterings...constant moisture is essential. That's why I reject your idea of what you have if the bark is as new as you claim. In your climate drying should be pretty easy.

Any insecticide, especially the cheap, ever present Merit will kill these larvae readily with a single drench. Of course you must prevent reinfestation. Even better, if you put mosquito dunks into your water on a regular basis, it will kill any insect at the larval stage so you will never see these larvae at all. Even easier, if you cover the surface of your pots with a quarter inch of sand or aquarium gravel you can prevent the adult from entering the wet medium and laying eggs.

Whether you want to agree or not, excessive re-potting is your worst choice.

[Izzie]

Originally Posted by JLu

Izzie, I'm not sure what you have, but you seem unaware of it's effects and opportunities to kill it and prevent the excessive re-potting. There may be insect larvae that eat bark, but I assure you that fungus gnat larvae do not eat bark. True, constantly wet media of any kind is a place for fungus gnats to lay eggs. The larvae eat plant roots. This won't occur if the bark is in good shape and dries between waterings...constant moisture is essential. That's why I reject your idea of what you have if the bark is as new as you claim. In your climate drying should be pretty easy.

Any insecticide, especially the cheap, ever present Merit will kill these larvae readily with a single drench. Of course you must prevent reinfestation. Even better, if you put mosquito dunks into your water on a regular basis, it will kill any insect at the larval stage so you will never see these larvae at all. Even easier, if you cover the surface of your pots with a quarter inch of sand or aquarium gravel you can prevent the adult from entering the wet medium and laying eggs.

Whether you want to agree or not, excessive re-potting is your worst choice.

I am always very glad to learn new things, so I appreciate you sticking with me here!
I'm afraid that I have not heard the same as you when it comes to the larvae. The general consensus among the growers I've talked to here and on other boards was that yes, Fungus Gnats are the canary in the coal mine. That is why I suspected that perhaps a couple pieces of bark in this mix were already on their way out, and invited the gnats in. (wouldn't be the first time)
But it is believed that the fungus gnat larvae do feed on the fungus on the decomposing bark (perhaps I should have clarified)- and when that is exhausted, they move to the roots. I'm sure there are anomalies in the order in which that happens. This is based on observations by myself and many others. It could be that we are interpreting it in different ways.
You may be right, that they feed on the roots first.

I will definitely keep your suggestions in mind, especially as far as the insecticides- I've never had luck with any chemical in getting rid of them. It's possible that I was not applying correctly, though I have seen articles detailing that not all insecticides will kill the larvae. (and again, that may not apply to everyone, but it was a researched article...)
In any case, I'm glad to know of a cheap, effective insecticide! I have heard of using the Mosquito Dunks but have never taken the plunge. And unfortunately, my mom would object to a top-dressing on all of our indoor plants. Such a stickler.

[Brooke]

You don't top dress the plants with the dunks. You put the dunks into the water, let it partially dissolve for a day or two and then water the plants with that water. You can also buy the BT from Repotme (I think) to kill the pest. You have to continue to water the plants with the treated water until there are no more eggs to hatch out.

If my memory cell is remembering I think the whole life cycle of a fungus gnat is about two weeks - from egg laying, to larvae to emerging as an adult. The adult only lives a few days before dying. I researched this annoyance several years ago so my memory might be slightly off. I know I eliminated them when I was growing many plants inside under lights - before the 'chids kicked out the other plant material.

Sevin dust applied to the top of the media and watered in will kill them. You could probably use liquid Sevin but I have no experience with it.

The gnats prefer something moist and juicy to eat if available over the peat. Try the raw potato slice and see if they don't prefer that to the peat.

Brooke

[katrina]

Izzie, you're right, there are a lot of different opinions as to what the gnats' primary food source is. However, if you look at University studies (every U. study I've ever read) you will find that all the entomology studies support the findings that the larva (maggots) feed on root hairs and roots first...then turning to organic matter in the soil/medium.

Personally, I believe a lot of the confusion comes about due to their name...Fungus gnat.

[Izzie]

Thanks you two.
Brooke- I think the Sevin dust will be the easiest route for me. Think it will be okay on houseplants near pets? A lot of the plants had imidacloprid granules worked into the soil before coming in.
I just happen to have some potatoes on their way out too.....

[Brooke]

Sevin is in flea powder, safe to use on kittens by seven weeks of age so it is fairly safe for animals although I don't think you would want the pet drinking the solution. Honey bees are the only critter I know of that is killed by Sevin. Used outside, don't apply it on a bloom a bee would visit.

I have never used the imidacloprid granules and have never used any imidacloprid on a house plant. I don't think any of my house plants had an insect problem. I know some of my tropical bonsai were supposed to be susceptible to scale but I had to get into orchids before I met that critter.

I think it is interesting that one of the major flea systemic products has imidacloprid as the insecticide.

If your Mother has a ton of house plants using a top dressing eliminates the fungus gnats ability to lay eggs and it can be very attractive. Chicken or turkey grit (feed) because it is white is very pretty and cheap.

Brooke

[JLu]

Izzie, The web site below from the U of Calif Davis explains in detail fungus gnats and what they eat (roots!) and how to control them. Notice that the biological control they recommend is the same thing as mosquito dunks.

Fungus Gnats, Shore Flies, Moth Flies, and March Flies Management Guidelines--UC IPM

As problems go this is a simple one. You can either take action or discuss it to death.

[Izzie]

JLu- I humbly stand corrected. As a Bio person, I know the sway that scientific research has. I've actually been reading some peer-reviewed research articles since last night about this topic, and there seems to be a similar debate there. But most seem to concur with what you say.
Another thread on the board that's taken a somewhat different turn than this one is a good example of what a convoluted topic this is- not specifically orchid pests...
To each their own, we may not all agree entirely, but this is all a learning experience! I'll not beat a dead horse.