Want to know about Sphag?

[LouisW]

I have been thinking about Sphag ever since Fred posted pictures of his plants overflowing with live Sphagnum moss. It got me to thinking that if you want to grow orchids in moss, you must first grow the moss. Since I love moss anyway I looked all over the internet for the best way to go about this.

Here is a very informative site all about Sphagnum and how to cultivate it.
http://culturesheet.org/sphagnaceae:sphagnum

here are some more:
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/edi...&postid=197061
Building a Sphagnum Bog Garden

[orchidaddict789]

Very interesting! Hmm never thought of growing sphag. I wonder how common/easy it is to grow sphag...I've never really thought much about it. This reminds me--once I was taking a trip to a wildlife reserve area down in Virginia. I was walking through the woods when lo and behold, in a shallow pool floated some very nice, healthy sphag moss. At first I wasn't 100% sure but then the tour guide confirmed that it really was sphag.

[LouisW]

It seems to me that growing a orchid in a live, growing moss would be so much healthier as long as the acidity issue is OK. Then you could be cultivating two plants and once and it would look so much nicer.

[Bolero]

I have a friend who grows it next to his Masdevallias......interesting link, I will send it to him. Very useful information.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by orchidaddict789

...I wonder how common/easy it is to grow sphag...

Well I have been thinking about this very thing lately. Those who followed my Disa adventure thread may remember that I used a lot of sphag in the media I mixed up for them. I noticed recently that some of the sphag in one of those pots is growing lush and green. I also noticed that some of thesphag I potted some of my "sick" paph seedlings in is also growing as is some of the sphag on my mounted bulbo. A while back I bought a couple bags of sphag at Bunnings (Australian version of HD or Lowes) and one of them had a lot fo green in it. I'm thinking of taking it out of the bag and seeing if I can get it to grow. It sounds like they thrive in lots of water. I think I'm going to give this a try.

[LouisW]

Kevin- the article suggested that Sphag would prefer stagnant water because that is what they create in a bog.

The thing I'm concerned about is that stagnant water is not good for most orchids, so they would have to grow in the clean fresh water that is poured into orchid pots. But that seems to work for you and Fred so...Guess its ok. I will probably give this a try soon and since im going to try and cultivate the moss by itself, ill try to provide acidic stagnant conditions ideal for the moss. Then ill see how the transition into orchid pots goes.

[kmarch]

To be clear, my Disas sit in little tubs of water which only gets "refreshed" when I water and the "stale" water gets diluted and runs out, overflowing. The other two situations the excess water drains away. I read in the article that a plastic tub with some peat at the bottom works well. I wonder if my coir peat would do just as well. Thoughts anyone?

[bibliofloris]

Great topic and links! (Although, the second one wasn't working for me?) Several types of moss appeared growing in my terrariums after a year or so; I've been wondering if one of them might be sphagnum. I also had a couple of small carnivorous plants in there at one point that had a lot of moss growth, so that may be one source of mine. I love the way it looks and would love to encourage it.

Peter D'Amato of California Carnivores has a page or so in The Savage Garden about growing carnivorous plants in live sphagnum; sounds like you may have to keep it trimmed around small plants (hasn't been an issue for me yet, if that's what mine is), and it likes a cooler period in winter and grows better outside than inside for him. He also mentions that New Zealand sphagnum is sterilized before it's imported to the US, but that domestic sphagnum spores will sometimes grow from dried unsterilized moss.

LouisW and kmarch -- I'm guessing that the sphagnum will care more about the constant moisture and lack of strong current and less about whether there's standing water all the time, but I don't know for sure. The carnivorous plant bog containers I've set up don't have standing water in the top few inches; they have drainage holes a few inches down from soil level. My terrariums have perhaps an inch or so of water left at the very bottom, but the moss is growing on damp coir/bark/mounts in the top couple of inches. Here's a pic, in case that helps -- the one I think may be sphag is the shaggy lime-green one, but there's moss growing all over there, and none of it's ever underwater that high in the tank.

[fred]

that looks like sphag the piece on the right middle of your photo

I have looked at the links and they are pretty good
here is what I do
most of you know that I can go out and collect sphag from the wild
the longer the sphag is the better I like it also its very fluffy
I have seen and held in my hands the sphag that grows on the side of the road I don't use that because of the road rubbish in it
the cleaner the sphag the better
the best sphag I have ever seen was about 30 to 40 feet up on rocks on a cliff face
yeah I got some of that as well about 2 feet long strands nice and fluffy and clean
I have seen the same stuff in winter and trying to get that in winter would have been impossible
wet as and snow as well
now as for growing sphag I get some and place the sphag in a large clear plastic bag
I place the bag in full shade and I use just the garden hose to keep the sphag wet but about once a week I turn the bag so the water that is in the bag does not settle long enough to let the moss rot.

I have kept sphag this way for up to two years and yes it does grow very well like that.

I have kept sphag in those black garbage bags as well but because of the black bags it blocks out the filtered light the sphag just stays the same I just keep that sphag moist with the garden hose

I am one who is lucky enough to have sphag on hand all the time either in my shed or all I need to do is go for a quick drive

[Ray]

It's actually pretty easy to grow live sphagnum from the dried stuff. There are usually viable spores in it that will readily germinate, given the right conditions.

As the culturesheet.org info stated, the mosses prefer acidic water, and I can tell you from first-hand experience that they don't like fertilizer - at least not in the levels most of us use for our plants. That's probably why folks with disas and carnivorous plants do so well, as they don't feed much, if at all.

[tansyflower]

I went hiking in Tassie (where Fred lives) over the Christmas holidays. I took some photos of sphagnum moss in the wild. I thought it might be interesting to post them.

Where sphagnum moss grows naturally, it gets very cold, even snowing. Even in summer. It snowed last year there where we hiked in the middle of summer.

Just a quick explanation of the photos:

Sphag (photo)- this is a large area of sphag. The sphag is growing along a stream- obviously where it is wettest. A lot of other mosses and lichens grow in the area.

Sphag2:this is a mound of sphag growing with grass poking through.

sphag 3: this is a closer pic of the above mound.

sphag 4- this is a pathway, where you actually walk through huge areas of sphag. It is compreesed on the walkways, so it sort of makes ditches you walk through. It gets quite boggy in areas.

sphag pond-this is a pond with sphag as the walls. I'm not sure how far down you have to dig to get through the sphag and reach dirt.

Live sphag- this was growing in the pond.

[fred]

good photos Tansy

thanks for sharing them with us

see the difference in the sphag Sphagnum Moss


another useful thread
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orc...gnum-moss.html

[LouisW]

Thanks for the input guys.

Since I don't have access to the wild stuff, im wondering if it is possible and how long it would take to get growth from the dried, compressed longfiber Sphag.

If you think it can be done I will go and get some right now, but it might be better to order a fresh bag online.

[Irene]

You can also buy live sphag online. I did that for planting some carnivorous plants. Put the extra into a container of water and left it on a shelf nearish a window. Now I pull out bits to top my orchid pots.

I also have it lining the inside of my Ghost orchid jar. It seems to be thriving in there.

As an experiment, I cut up some dried sphag and put it in a container with water and some not-cut dried sphag. I also cut up some live sphag and put it on top of wet peat moss. So far don't see any growing from the dried. The cut up live, put on top of the wet peat moss, is still alive but not growing much. Started this experiment in the beginning of January.

[Irene]

Some pics

Left over live sphag that was put in container of water


Cut up pieces of live sphag on top of wet peat (also has some dried sphag as mulch, per the recommendations on the site where I saw this method)


Live sphag in my Ghost orchid container


I use distilled water for all of it (because some of my carnivors require it). No fertilizer or other additive.

The moss in the Ghost container seems to be growing the most. This container has the deepest standing water.

I didn't take a pic of the dried moss in water. Just picture a bowl of wet, dried moss.

[bibliofloris]

Originally Posted by LouisW

Thanks for the input guys.

Since I don't have access to the wild stuff, im wondering if it is possible and how long it would take to get growth from the dried, compressed longfiber Sphag.

If you think it can be done I will go and get some right now, but it might be better to order a fresh bag online.

I think you can grow it from the dried stuff or from spores in the dried stuff if it isn't sterilized. If I remember right, it took mine about a year to become noticeable and still isn't exactly quick-growing. But maybe it would have been different if I'd been deliberately growing it.

[ysanabria]

I start my experiment as well with some dried, long fiber Sphag. Some green have start to show. I use rain water and peat moss
I am not sure if the green in my plants means that has start growing or is just green for the humidity?

[LouisW]

Ysanabria, It looks like you have some algae growing on the sphag. You can see on your big Encyclia that the whole length of the fiber is green rather than having growth at the end.

Im looking forward to the results with everyones experiments.

[ysanabria]

thank you LouisW! Do you know if that algae is bad for the plant?

[LouisW]

Originally Posted by ysanabria

Do you know if that algae is bad for the plant?

Nope, I think your fine.

[koshki]

Louis, thanks for posting this...very interesting! I've been successful "reconstituting" the sphag I bought, but I like the idea of growing more.

I'm also going to add some to my blueberries this year, they are acid lovers.

Gotta go buy some peat!