Backbulbs?

[orchidaddict789]

Any tried backbulbs? I know it's not the proper way of "dividing", but if you happen to repot and remove some older backbulbs (pseudobulbs without leaves), you can actually place the backbulbs in a pot of bark. As I've read, it should put out a new growth and grow roots, provided there are active growing points available.

The one time I tried this it rotted. Probably used a bad backbulb, but the problem is I don't have too many backbulbs to spare.

Anyone actually tried it and it worked?

[Orchidzrule]

Hi Lily,

I've never used just a single backbulb, myself. I have seen single old backbulbs with new growths attached, though, so it certainly can be done.

I have, however, taken the newest growth (with a couple of backbulbs) off (and potted that separately) and left a couple of the oldest backbulbs still joined together. After a time, I did get a new growth initiated. So far, I've only tried it on one plant (a Miltonia Anne Warne), but it made me willing to try it again. In my case, the plant was too large for the pot it was in--the new growth had crept over the rim of the pot. As I didn't want an enormous pot and specimen plant, the best solution was to divide it.

My suggestion would be to wait until you've got a plant with enough old bulbs to withstand division. I realize for many (myself definitely included!), this can be a LONG wait. My biggest complaint about orchids is their slow growth.

Cheers,

Rob

[mayres]

Yep - it works, but takes a long long time to get a significant plant from the process. When I repotted my Gower Ramsey oncidium I planted each of the two older backbulbs into pots by themselves. One rotted and produced nothing and the other is pictured with the link attached to this post. It is now been about four months and the 2nd backbulb has totally died off and the new plant is not much different than shown in this pic. Never done this before so hope this link works for anyone wishing to see - this is at about two months. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to product a flower! I'm just guessing we're talking something like two years?

[mayres]

I don't think my link to the photo worked in the previous post and I cannot figure out how to upload a photo to this thread - if anyone can fill me in I will do so! Thanks -

[MsFlintlock]

Three or 4 years ago I bought a dozen nameless cymbidium backbulbs on ebay. Last winter the first one bloomed. This year 6 of them have bloom spikes so far. The seller said she would probably be able to ID them from the blooms. Hope she's still alive! With Oncidium types about half sprouted and half did nothing. I think Catts would take a very very long time from a single bulb, but for some varieties, worth the wait.

[vseraphim]

Not knowing any better I just ripped the back bulbs off of one dying Brassia. I put it in potting soil with my climbing roses that were growing in a pot. I kept checking on it every so often then about 5 months later I saw some growth. It's a big baby now. Haven't tried that again, been so busy, but I'm going to be trying it again and see what happens.

[Ellen]

Get that orchid out of the potting soil and into fir chips or some other medium with good drainage before it rots! This just goes to show how hardy orchids are.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Sure I've started back bulbs hundreds of times. Hate to throw away viable material, and just as happy to get a started backbulb from some one else, as I always say that I collect genetic material, not blooms with plants attached. Any genus can be started from back bulbs. Most times you will get the best results with at least 3 bulbs. Some times, if the old bulbs are too old or mistreated, they won't have any live eyes, and should be just tossed. Or, if I only have one bulb, I toss it. These days, I use Sphag & Bag almost exclusively. The exception is large single B-bulbs of Cymbidiums, which get half buried in a moisture retaining mix. Lots of the stuff I get on the $7.50 tables at the Santa Barbara Orchid Estates is only one bulb pieces, but they are very good sized, and I have to be a lot more patient with these, but would rather have them than not. The great thing about Sphag & Bag is that you have an equal chance at success if you do or don't have a greenhouse, or if you live in Arizona or Florida. Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

[ennery]

another way i use for getting leafless bulbophyllums to flower is to cut
rhizome with 4 -5 bulbs leaving them in place,then the old ones throw up new bulbs which flower, also at moment i have single leafless Eulophia bulbs breaking new growth

[Luci]

Cynthia,
What is Spahg and Bag?
Thanks

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Shag and Bag is a zip lock bag with a little mostly wrung out Newzealand moss in it. You put your rootless bulb or plant in it and zip it up. After a few weeks to a few months, a new growth will start, and you pot it up when the new growth starts to produce some roots. It is a way of slowing down the dehydration to zero and giving the plant a chance to reach the right season for growth. The Newzealand moss has some anti fungal properties that help out somewhat.

Lately I have made great use of Power Clone gel from a hydroponics store to trigger an earlier start of new growth and use Sphag & Bag a lot less now, tho a combination of these would probably be a good idea if you don't mind opening the bag every few days to put a few drops on the live eye of choice. Cynthia

[Luci]

Thanks Cynthia, that is sort of what I am doing with some Vandas out of flask for about a week now..except they are in pots but I put a zip lock bag upside down over them to keep humidity up. Never thought of putting the moss in the bag and babies in it instead of a pot.

I have another Flask of Phals to deflask in about 2 weeks..might try it with those.

Thanks again

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I think your first approach is best. Let the babies make the transition slowly to a lower humidity life. The problem I have had with some of the plants that stay in the baggy a long time is that they are very tender coming out of the bag just like the babies from flasks, and probably both should have a fungicide/bacteriocide treatment as they come out. Cynthia

[Luci]

The Vandas are looking great and do great with a bag upside down over them, but the ones I am having trouble with is the last Flask of Phals. A lot of them are very limp and haven't perked up still..It's been about 3 weeks on the Phals. The vandas have been out of flask two weeks and are looking great.

I use Physan20 and Super Thrive on the young ones just out of flask.

I was told Vandas are very slow growing...is that true? If so then I have a long wait for these babies!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I think Vandas have much more stiffness to their tissues normally, and the Phals are more floppy by nature, so they probably will show any stress more easily. Just hang in there. If you are not having the Phals rot on you, you are ahead of the game already. I am amazed at how long some plants can take to get going. You just have to have a lot of patience with orchids. I always hear about orchids in peoples homes that are growing much faster than the ones in my greenhouse. Never can figure that out. My first Vanda from a seedling to bloom took about 15 years, but that is because I pretty much mistreated it. The second one probably took 3 or 4 years. Partly it depends on the size that the seedling genetically has to get to before it can bloom. Again, patience. That is one of the reasons so many of us want so many orchids, to improve the action. Cynthia

[Ellen]

If your phal babies are looking wilted, you might try using a humidifier. When I deflask seedlings I like to get them used to the real world as quickly as possible. I plant them fairly densely in 3" plastic pots with NZ spag wetted with a weak fertilizer solution and squeezed out. Once the babies are planted I water with a little SuperThrive. I put the compots in a large 6" deep plastic pan, loosely cover the top of the pan with plastic wrap, and keep the plants in the house for a couple of days so that I can monitor them. I remove the plastic wrap for a few hours at a time when I'm home, longer each day, but keep it on when I'm out. By the third or fourth day I remove the plastic wrap completely and move the compots to the sunporch (aka phal room). During the day when it's hot, I run a humidifier under the bench where the compots are, and this seems to keep them nicely hydrated. Otherwise, the humidifier is off. After a week or two I move them to the greenhouse. So far I've had good luck with this method, including phals.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Ellen, do you spray or dunk your seedlings in a fungicide/bacteriocide as they come out of flask? I am considering one of those 1/2 flasks of kovatchii, tho I don't want them shipped across the country just out of flask, and have yet to really have any success with flask babies, tho I haven't tried now for 10 or 15 years. I certainly will have to get it right if I figure a way to get these brought to the west coast in decent shape. Cynthia

[Luci]

Cynthia: I haven't had any rot yet. Some are so tiny that I keep watching them for rotting. This is my first time trying vandas from flask. Gratification of blooms is years away, but I love growing the tiny babies. I sprayed the babies with Physan20 and then I put weak solution of Super Thrive in a spray bottle to water them with. I like the spray bottle because I can get the water just where I want it. Seems to work just fine.

Ellen: Thanks for the information on the pan...hadn't thought of that. I pot them and then turn a big baggie upside down over them unzipped. I always pot the babies in the round vanda net pots so the roots can get as much air movement and humidity as possible..seems to work a lot better than a regular closed pot with holes just in the bottom. Need to try a humidifier for just the babies...what kind do you use? The cold air or just a regular room humidifier?

Thanks both of you

[Ellen]

Cynthia, I've tried it both ways - with and without fungicide/bacteriocide, and don't really see much difference. Of course, I have been using Physan 20, which I hear is not much better than spraying with water. Now what I do is, if there is anything that looks like it might be contamination, I soak in a fairly strong Physan solution before compotting, but otherwise son't soak. I would say that 9 out of 10 times the plants do fine. Once in a while, even with the Physan treatment, I will see a bit of black fuzzy mold developing on the seedlings, in which case I spray them with a cinnamon/alcohol solution, which usually clears things up. Of course, if I were to get some really valuable plants, those would be the ones that die. It may be that flasking techniques are better today than they were 10-15 years ago, so the seedlings are stronger or larger than they typically were back when you were growing from flasks. Good luck with your kovatchii!

[Ellen]

For Luci: The humidifier that I use for the babies is just a regular Vicks humidifier that you can buy in the supermarket or box store. It isn't heated, just puts out a very fine room temperature mist. The net pots sound like a good idea - I may try that, although if I really liked it I'm not sure what I'd do with my thousand or so disposable flex pots that I use now! I guess only if I get some kovachii!
For anyone wanting to deflask: I forgot to mention in my description of methods that I always lay down some sheets of clean newspaper to work on, fresh ones for each flask. This helps prevent contamination. This is probably obvious, but before handling the seedlings, and between batches, it is important to wash your hands with a bacteriocidal soap. I think that if the seedlings are clean to begin with and if the deflasking is done in a clean environment, there is no real need for chemical treatment of the seedlings. My theory is that if they start clean and are gradually exposed to all the things that float around in the real world they will gradually develop some natural resistance to them.

[Luci]

Thanks Ellen,
I will have to get one and maybe I can dispose of a couple of humidity trays!

I bought the net pots just strickly for the babies. I also wanted to make sure I didn't over water them and the pots makes that easier for me.

I am now taking the baggies off more so will be able to get rid of them soon.