Spaghnum vs Coconut Coir

[rcb]

Hi all,

I no longer have local supplies of good quality spaghnum moss, but the pet stores here do carry coconut coir. It really bothers me (I don't know why?) to pay shipping for medium, so I was wondering if anyone had grown in both, and is coir a good substitute for sphagnum? If so, what are the main differences if any that you noticed?

I know that the coir does need a lot of soaking first to get rid of salts, but other than that, what are everyone's thoughts to me switching?

I currently use spaghnum for mounts, and my plant thats don't like to dry out as much like Gongoras, small seedlings and Catasetums mainly.

[Bolero]

I don't know how mounts will go without the sphagnum moss but it's definitely getting harder to find and more expensive at the same time.

I think for plants that like to stay moist and in pots it can be a good medium and should work for you. You will have to water more often than with sphagnum but it can work if you adjust your cultural conditions to suit it and that's just waterning more.

Does that help?

[rcb]

Bolero yes thank you. I can water more often, that is not a problem.

[katrina]

I started using it about a year ago and have had good result w/all but my phrags.

I typically do my own mix for phrags...peat based potting mix, large perlite (sp?), charcoal, large chc, tree fern fibers...and anything else chunky that I happen to have on hand. Last year, fungus gnats were out of control so I opted to switch out a large portion of the peat mix for coir when I repotted my phrags in the Spring.

I don't know if I used too much coir, not enough chunky stuff or what... but all the phrags began a downward spiral. For awhile I just chalked it up to the cool spring which led into a cool summer. About a month ago...temps were up...phrags continued the downward spiral so I decided to unpot.... unforutanetly I found a mess w/the roots.

I mixed up my old phrag medium...and repotted everyone back to the old medium. In a very short time...complete turn around on the phrags. They are well on the road to recovery.

So...that's the long way of saying...I wouldn't use too much of it w/phrags.

BTW - it was tripled rinsed coir so I would've thought the salt content was low...but maybe it's still too high for the phrags. ?? Anyone's guess would be as good as mine.

[rcb]

Katrina thanks. I don't have any Phrags, so I don't have to worry about that. I'm going to try the fiber as they need the spag replaced, so it will be a slow turnover and I can watch them. with me moving to a totally different growing environment anyways, I'm watching all of them very closely right now.

[LouisW]

I find 65% choir, 30% perlite, and 5% charcoal works very well as a replacement for sphag in a pot. My phals do well in it. I just eyeball the mixture so the measurments are aproximate. The mix holds water well and stays fluffy so its good for my dry conditions. I would think a good quality choir should be free of exess salts. I buy it at a hydroponic store so maybe you pet store stuff is a differant quality since it isnt meant for plants.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by rcb

I don't have any Phrags, so I don't have to worry about that.

Oh, no...everyone should have at least one phrag.

[Ray]

I think it's important that folks get their terminology all on the same page.

Technically, "coir" is the fibrous material that is at the interface between the hard shell and the pithy husk of the coconut. It is also commonly known as "coconut husk fiber" (although I don't believe it is really part of the husk), or "gorilla hair".

Unfortunately, in the US at least, "coir" is also used to describe the coarse, powdery substance used as a peat moss substitute, a/k/a "coco peat". It is ground coir fiber, and while the two have been used in orchid culture, their applications are totally different!

Katrina and LouisW appear to be referring to the ground material, while it appears that rcb and bolero were referring to the fiber.

[rcb]

Ray good point. Actually I'm pretty sure I have access to both here. But I was thinking of the fiber. I use the fiber that is sold in the box stores to line baskets with sometimes, although I stretch it out to make it thin, and the compressed blocks and the fibers I've seen at a pet store here.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by Ray

I think it's important that folks get their terminology all on the same page.

Technically, "coir" is the fibrous material that is at the interface between the hard shell and the pithy husk of the coconut. It is also commonly known as "coconut husk fiber" (although I don't believe it is really part of the husk), or "gorilla hair".

Unfortunately, in the US at least, "coir" is also used to describe the coarse, powdery substance used as a peat moss substitute, a/k/a "coco peat". It is ground coir fiber, and while the two have been used in orchid culture, their applications are totally different!

Katrina and LouisW appear to be referring to the ground material, while it appears that rcb and bolero were referring to the fiber.

Yep...you are correct about me...I was referring to the ground material and I'm basing my terminology on what the bag and websites/vendors call it. At least the vendors I purchase from. I've always called the "hairy" stuff...coco fiber. Good point about making sure we're all talking about the same stuff.

I have to say...it would be a heck of a lot easier for "folks to get their terminology all on the same page"... if the people selling these materials would all get on the same page.

[Ray]

Originally Posted by katrina

I have to say...it would be a heck of a lot easier for "folks to get their terminology all on the same page"... if the people selling these materials would all get on the same page.

True enough, but then we'd all get nailed for "collusion".

[kmarch]

I have a package of the ground up stuff that I purchased here in Melbourne and it's labled "coir peat". And I have also bought the chunks here labled as "coir chunks." They're cut up about the size of the average medium size bark chip. But to complicate things just a bit I have also bought stuff that is more like...um, well shreaded (?) coir. It's not ground up but not cut in neat chunks either. I'm afraid I don't remember what it was called...I didn't like it much.

[Tarad]

I used the block coir, with charcoal, aussie gold, bark, and dyna roc mixed together, my phals love it. Tara

[katrina]

You're probably right Ray. LOL!!

Kevin...I don't know if it's the same stuff but I buy and use the shredded coco husk chunks. LOVE it!! If I have a moisture lover...it most likely has that stuff in the mix somewhere and to some degree...or it will at the next repot.

I find it interesting to see what others like and don't like to use.

[rcb]

Thank you all for your advice. Here's what I am trying. I found 3 bags of Coconut Husk Chips in my orchid supplies bin. I don't even remember buying these, but since they were there I'm going to use them. The Gongoras, Stanhopeas etc I am still going to line the baskets with the coconut fiber and then fill with the coconut chips.

For the mounted ones, depending on whether they need to dry out quickly or not, I'm going with two different ways. The ones that need to dry quickly are getting the coconut fiber, and the ones that need to stay moist for a while are getting a fiber kind of put on like a little bin, and I'm putting some of the CHCs inside. I started a test of this yesterday, took a keikii from my Phal pulchra and mounted it up this way. I'll watch it for a while and see how it responds, and if good, as the spag on my other mounts need replaced I'll try it. If not good - well back to the drawing board.

But everything is different down here, I'm noticing the spag that is currently being used is definitely not drying the way it did in charlotte. So may have to move a few more quickly to the new medium faster than I want to.

But I can say that my few Vandas LOVE it. The root growth over the last month we have been here is amazing!

[scuscad1]

Its a lot more humid in fl so some your orchids my not need as much water, i've noticed especially with all the rain we've been getting that my orchids do not need to be watered nearly this much as last year because they get so much moisture in the air:0)

[rcb]

scuscad yes I'm noticing that. I haven't had to water any of them now for more than a week. I'm hoping the coconut fiber will work well here.

Now come winter, the warmer gowing ones will be moved onto my screened porch, and I'll have to run a heater, so I may have to water them a little more. Will have to watch and adjust - part of the wonders of growing orchids lol