Cattleya problem

[birdmom2a2]

I'm new to the board, and pretty new to orchids, as well. I've been collecting for about 8 months or so. The first plant I got was a Cattleya. Slowly but surely, it has not been doing well.

Environment: I am in Phoenix, where it's dry. I keep them in my bathroom, in and around a large bathtub. I have taken shower curtains and covered the open side and top, but it is not sealed shut. Oh, it's in front of a west window with sunscreens on it. I use 2 all-spectrum lights and a humidifier. As hard as I try, I can't get it to stay much above 50-60 percent humidity, and sometimes drops into the 30 range. The temperature is about 75-82 during the day and the low 70s at night. That's about the best I can get in the warm/hot weather.

Problem: The leaves are shriveling up, and I know the plant isn't getting enough water. This morning I decided to take it out of the pot and look at the roots, as I suspected that was the main problem. I sure was right! It has NO viable roots. I cut off everything that was dead, brown, and rotted, and am left with nothing. There is some black at the bases of a few of the bulbs (plant has about 8 bulbs total). Should I cut them off completely? Oh, watering - I take a pencil and stick it into the planting medium. When the pencil comes out dry, that's when I water it - about every 7-10 days. We have very hard water, and I run water through it for about 5-10 minutes, after soaking for about 5 minutes.

Is there any way to save this plant? If helpful, I'll post a photo - just let me konw. I sure would appreciate any advice.

I have more questions, but let's take care of this first . Thanks so much.

Julie

[solay]

Gee, I was about to post a similar question to yours. I'm new to growing Cattleyas too and recently got a bunch of small seedlings. 3 out of around 15 have died (leaves fell off and had back spot right above the roots) and several blooming size ones are having the same problem. The stalks are shriveling and getting soft. Think it is root rot? Some of my Cyms. do that too. I will be awaiting help from the other members on this too. Sorry couldn't help. Would be like the blind leading the blind.

[kid a]

I could be wrong but it does sound like rot or bacteria. Do you have enough airflow? I also read that sometimes leaves can look shriveled when over watered and many newbies think it is an under watering problem. Maybe try a sphag and bag deal on the cat to get some roots started again or superthrive or hormone. I am sure some of the other members will be more helpful, I'm not sure without a picture. Oh yeah, welcome to the forum. What other kinds of orchids do you have and can you post some pictures for us? :-)

[brookn]

My humidity where I live stays fairly high, but I do not worry over the humidity all that much. I am in the minority on this though. I do not mist the plants, I just water them when they need it. I believe that you are providing great humidity, but no air flow. A fan is a must for orchids roots to be happy. 7-10 days seems like a long time for them to dry, as mine in good humidity and air flow are dry in 5-7 depending upon the size. A bathroom is a great place for mold or fungus to take hold, as they are generally high humidity, and low on air flow. Catts can recover from having no viable roots, pretty quickly, but you need to get a fan for sure.

[jerrymeola]

What you are seeing is damaged roots. Whether they were damaged by you or more likely came that way is hard to say.

Also this is just the beginning of growing season and there can be few signs of root growth this early.

Humidity is not that important a factor for Cattleya as you might believe. It is possible that low humidity required more frequent watering but it does seem that every 7-10 days would be a problem indoors when the plant was not actively growing.

One problem is that you may have been expecting too much this early in the season.

Since you have cut all the roots, grow the plant as you would a bare root plant. Prepare a pot with bark and use a pot clip to hold the plant on top of the medium. Do not bury the rhizome. Water sparingly until you see new roots come out of the leading pseudobulb. You may lose all the leaves on the old bulbs and need to remove them in a few months. This may require re-potting into a smaller pot.

I am Guessing - If your plant was in bloom when you bought it you should have seen new roots growing shortly after the flowers died. If you did not, then the plant may have been in serious trouble before you bought it. Cattleya should be re-potted after flowering.

It is not rot or fungus as the symptoms are different. On Cattleya fungus (rot is just a common name) is seen as black blotches spreading rapidly across the leaf. Shriveled and curling leaves are the result of insufficient water - not necessarily that you watered too little - but that the roots of the plant were damaged to where they could not absorb the water.

It is important to understand the difference in Orchid families and how they indicate distress. Shriveled leaves on Phalaenopsis can be from over or under watering, but on Cattleya it means damaged roots.

[PhalPal]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Shriveled leaves on Phalaenopsis can be from over or under watering, but on Cattleya it means damaged roots.

This fact is new to me Jerry - is this the same as having shriveled leaves because the roots are rotten and cannot absorb water?? or roots damaged in some other manner??

I'm also thinking there is not enough light in this bathroom??

[Tobi]

As Brook stated, good air circulation is a must for Catts. They need to almost dry before
rewatering. High humidity with poor air circulation is asking for trouble and root rot. I
would do as Jerry suggested and hopefully you can get some new roots to grow.

[jerrymeola]

PhalPal

The shriveled leaves are shriveled because the roots can not take water from being damaged.

Root Rot is actually a later symptom of damaged roots being attacked by fungus. The problem came before the rot set in.

Every time you re-pot you are damaging some roots. Commercial growers drench their pots after re-potting in anti-fungicides. I am experimenting with pure bracillus microbes (commercial product is called Companion). It is supposed to act as an innoculent. I will post results when I feel that I have seen enough to make a recommendation.

I mix my drench with Worm Tea, Companion (bracillus) and rooting hormones.

The light problem will only effect flowering. Actually for a sick plant lower light levels can help. Julie you need to realize after you get past the root problem you need more light. A Cattleya will not flower where you have it.

[birdmom2a2]

I'll answer you below.

[quote=jerrymeola;68261]What you are seeing is damaged roots.


I am Guessing - If your plant was in bloom when you bought it you should have seen new roots growing shortly after the flowers died. If you did not, then the plant may have been in serious trouble before you bought it. Cattleya should be re-potted after flowering. There has been no growth anywhere - no roots or leaves. I've been having trouble for months now.

It is not rot or fungus as the symptoms are different. On Cattleya fungus (rot is just a common name) is seen as black blotches spreading rapidly across the leaf. No black on leaves at all. Shriveled and curling leaves are the result of insufficient water - not necessarily that you watered too little - but that the roots of the plant were damaged to where they could not absorb the water. This is what I'm thinking, as the plant got enough water, and I don't think too much, as I do know to be very careful about that.

So, if I understand you, I should now plant it, water sparingly, and use superthrive. What qualifies as "water sparingly?"

Oh, the light issue -I have it in front of a huge window (with a sunscreen, though). Light shines directly on the plants for 6-7 hours (WSW exposure) and I have two additional all-spectrum bulbs. What do I need to add? Also, if the plants do not need the humidity I'm thinking they need, I would love to put them somewhere else in my home.

thx
Thanks lots,
Julie

[PhalPal]

I am new to Catts this year, some I mounted and some are potted. ALL the plants suffer from shriveled leaves after repotting. I don't think it is a watering issue, so Jerry's explanation of damaged roots fits. In addition, I don't think I have EVER seen a healthy Catt root! Plants I buy have brown, flimsy roots (I'm not sure - is this normal??)and I am starting out in the ditch from the beginning.

birdmom2a2 - this is a tried and true method for knowing when to water all types of orchids. Catts like to dry out completely between waterings. I have huge south facing windows (tinted) and I couldn't get Phals (low light) to bloom in this very bright room. Your supp light will help greatly if the orchids are inches from the bulbs.

Skewer method:http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orc...f-orchids.html

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Hi Julie. You have a private message from another Arizonian.

I would say that your growing conditions are really pretty good, just need to get the watering right in the future. My recommendation for your area is Sphag & Bag. You are in too dry a climate to try anything else.

[birdmom2a2]

This site won't let me post the pictures until I've made 5 posts to the board, so I can't get my photos up. If someone will send me an email to birdmomspixelnest DOT com, I'll send you the pictures and maybe you can post them for me. or maybe I can get them posted by just posting small replies, I'll do my best here. anyway....


If I understand correctly, wrap the roots in spagh and put a plastic bag around the roots. Correct? Do I also use potting media? Do I put it in a pot? Sorry to sound so ignorant, but I really appreciate your help here. Thanks lots,
Julie

[birdmom2a2]

I read my private note, and she told me how to 'spagh and bag." Very helpful. Thank you . What do you folks use for artificial lighting? I need more light in my room, I'm afraid. It's by a big window, but being in HOT HOT Arizona (110+ common in the summer), I have sunscreens on my windows, which cuts out some of the sunlight (and LOTS of heat!). Anyway, I have two all-spectrum bulbs, but I don't think it's enough, as in the middle of the day, I can't really see much difference with them off or on.
thanks lots,
Julie

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

You don't need to have the sphag against the plant at all, but it doesn't hurt. It is just there to hold a reservoir of moisture to make sure the humidity in the bag is 100%. Don't know about light, just started growing my Phals under fluorescents, but Phals need less light than Catts, so about 16" away for them is plenty of light.

[slippery_biscuit]

I couldn't help but wonder what sort of potting medium you are using, and what sort of pot. Water and thus moisture seem to be the consensus here. These two items can have a large effect on the frequency of watering.

Whether insufficient airflow is a contributing factor to you situation or not, I agree that a small fan to promote air movement is a good idea. Perhaps more so as humidity goes up.