Dark Sunken Spots and Yellowing Leaves on my Phal - Please help!

[jaymewar]

Hi everyone. This is my first post here. I've been "growing" orchids for about 2 years now, and have had my ups and downs. Generally I've been able to keep all my plants alive, if not reflowering.

Anyway, 2 weeks ago I went to an orchid show and purchased what is to me the prettiest phal ever. I have about 20 plants, but this plant is very special. Last week I went on vacation and the plant was fine. I came back this week to find the following on one of my leaves (please see photos attached - some may be redundant, but I want you all to get as clear of an idea as possible).

So yeah, this happened in a week. There are 5 leaves on the plant and this was the 3rd one down. I removed the leaf. The second leaf down also had the start of the same looking thing on the outermost quarter of it's leaf. I cut it off. I have no idea what is going on or what to do. Please advise! I'm very anxious.

Photo 1: bottom of leaf. most realistic looking colors.
Photo 2: top of leaf.
Photo 3: different view of leave bottom.
Photo 4: different view of leaf bottom.
Photo 5: zoomed in view of one of the spots. This looks blacker in the picture than it is - it's more of a dark brown.

[PhalPal]

Welcome to the forum jaymewar. First of all, isolate your new plant from the rest of your orchids until you know what is wrong with it. Bacterial infections will be soft and mushy, so we can count that out.

I have never experienced this so I am not sure what is wrong with your Phal, but I have a book with an exact picture and written description of your pictures and what you are telling us. I think your orchid may have a virus, Cymbidium Mosaic virus (CyMV), which apparently is quite common. It can attack all types of orchid. Look this up on the web and let us know if you think this could be a possibility, and then we can figure out a treatment!

[Tobi]

Hi Jay,
Where is the plants location? Was it subjected to any continual direct sunlight while
you were gone? If it's a bacterial infection, the lesions would exude a dark liquid. Possibly
fungal if it was damp and wet while you were away. Is the crown firm and not mushy
and soft? I haven't seen enough severe sunburn cases, but maybe someone else can
comment on that aspect.

[PhalPal]

I thought the same thing Tobi but the affected leaf was the third one down, apparently in the middle of the order of five leaves. Could sunburn affect one (going on two) leaves without hitting the whole plant? I really don't know (fortunately) and want to learn more about this sort of thing. I have experienced slight sunburn before but it was only on the top two leaves that were most exposed.

Jaymewar maybe a picture of the entire plant would help others to help you figure this out.

[Vivienne]

5 leaves and this was the third one down - does that make it the bottom leaf? Did you water before you went out of town? Did someone else? Could this be from water collecting on/around the lowest leaf?

And, did you get the name of the grower you bought it from? Perhaps they are having similar experiences?

Just some thoughts.

[Greenhouse Gal]

I have seen very bad sunburn on orchids, unfortunately. This is not sunburn. Sunburn would indeed be on the top most leaves, leaf surfaces. Sorry I don't know what it is.

Greenhouse Gal.

[made4engineering]

The bottom is more damaged than the top! That fact doesnt exactly indicate sunburn.... This doesnt look good! Like PhalPal said, I would separate this from other plants if I were you... Kill all bugs that might spread this!

[PhalPal]

Something I found on the internet:

Cymbidium mosaic virus - CyMV

The CyMV belongs to the potex virus group, ORV to the tobamovirus group. Viroses are clearly visible, especially on younger leaves, by small or wide spots and often of a brighter tissue. On Phalaenopsis, after ripening of the leaf, these bright areas change to sunken black spots, in the beginning mainly on the undersides of the leaves, later also on the leaf surface. In cases of severe infestation, the infested leaves drop off. On blossoms of dark-coloured varieties, marked deformation and stripes or spotted areas are indicators of an infection with the Cymbidium mosaic virus, but similar colour changes also happen due to mutations, mainly in dark Phalaenopsis varieties. Symptoms on blossoms are relatively rare on Phalaenopsis.

[digitalgate]

look like virus. Fungus normally have spot. Then again no way to test. If U apply fungicides
now , the plant will be too weak to handle the stress. Could be a goner... sorry.

[mayres]

Where is this plant sitting? What kind of lighting does it receive? Where do you live? If you could revise your profile to include your place in the world this might help in diagnosis and suggestions as well. I'm not saying this is it, but I have had a couple of phals in my early growing years where I sunburned off the leaves in the center "lineup" without hurting the others - surprising this can happen but it can - might have something to do with which leaves were facing which direction, some shaded by others, etc. My recollection is that they turned yellow quite quickly as you are describing - just cannot remember what other coloration might have been evident?

[digitalgate]

after looking for long time.
jaymewar, did you wipe the leave clean before you take the photo? If you did, I suspect you have
mites problem. The problem is more severe on the underside. That is where most insect
like to hide. Get a magnify glass 10X type and look. did you see any insect , that move
really really slowly. Then you have mites problem. Then it is possible that your entire
collection might ,,,, might be infected already.

[Brooke]

See if this link helps or just muddies the waters more.

Diagnosing Orchid Problems

Brooke

[jbigio]

GREAT site thanks

[jctusa]

Jaymewar, I have been looking at books and articles about your problem not only as a help, but to further educate myself. The best book I found so far - Orchids and How To Grow Them by Sessler has two pictures of virus and fungus.

Quoting from the book: " The first sign that an orchid has become infected by a virus is the yellow bleaching and disfiguratioin of a leaf." Figure 11-8 "Blackened, sunken areas on the surface of a leaf caused by a fungus"

Looks like a virus.

John

[PhalPal]

Mike I don't think sunburn would affect the underside of the leaves as badly as the pictures are showing us. I'm curious what the second yellowing leaf will do; it will help us a lot more in figuring out what is going on.

[Stitz]

Did "we" ever get a diagnosis?

--Stitz--

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Jay, if you decide to have the plant tested for virus, be sure to take the sample from the most recent leaf. It is sad to have to do this, but the older leaves are the most likely to give you a false negative. Could be mites, so read the sticky on mites. There is also a strange illness in Phals whose cause has as yet not been figured out. Search on 'phal' and 'microfungus'. Don't think your plant looks quite like that tho.