Bifrenthrin? Let' talk pesticides.

[brookn]

Hi all,

I'd like to open a discussion on pesticides. I was going to buy a bottle of the Bayer 3 n 1, but I can only find the large bottle. I really don't want to have a bunch leftover that I only really used for a few plants. I also don't want my son who thinks he is a mad scientist to try and experiment with it (boys, the things they try to get into lol).

What I would like to hear is what everyone is using for mites besides the Bayer, and neem oil (the neem just is not working, and I feel it is doing more harm than good). I found a product with Bifrenthrin sp?, ortho, and sevin, in spray bottles. The label says they can be used on roses and ornamentals etc. Is anyone using anything like these? I want to be sure they safe for the orchids.

[PhalPal]

I use Pharm Solutions and really love the stuff. They have many different flavors for different purposes; I use the pink cinnamon oil type. It is an insecticide, miticide, fungicide and great leaf shiner. It did nothing for soot; thanks for the Dawn idea!!

I have cats, dogs, asthma, and my best friend's baby who is at the age where everything goes in her mouth so I can't have any hard chemicals around my house. I use this every other watering as prevention and to shine the leaves and I have never had a bug on my phals indoors or cyms outdoors. I also spray any new acquisitions just in case.

I found it at an upscale nursery nearby and online. (pharmsolutionsinc.com) I have yet to see it at Target, Home Depot or Armstrong. It would be a little pricey if I had a greenhouse full of orchids but I don't, so this is great at $17 a quart.

[brookn]

Phalpal,

I use Dawn for just about everything it seems. I am glad to hear it helped. I enjoy a product that has many functions, and serves a purpose in helping the environment. I was thinking I was going to have to get the big dog pesticides out for this issue. The neem has done to a couple of my plants what Cynthia showed us it did to some of her leaves. Disappointing. I am thinking, I have pure cinnamon oil, maybe I will order the pink stuff, and in the meantime make a cinnamon, dawn, and water spray for the plants. I may let the mad scientist help, can't hurt him with that stuff as long as he doesn't try to rub his eyes. I will keep everyone posted as to how this helped, and the recipe I used. Thanks for the idea, it may be helpful to all of us in the long run.

[pikevi]

brookn: I don't know how old your son is. If he is young I would not want to use it indoors on the plants, just to be on the safe side.

Have you tried safer's insecticidal soap? I use it and it seems to be working well. It does not contain organophosphates.

I have not seen many insects on the orchids but occasionally I see the mealy bug and usually one application clears it in a 'few hours'

Good luck

[Vivienne]

I also use the Safer Soap... took care of a few mealies just fine and dandy.

[brookn]

Pikevi,
My son is almost 10, and the bottle has a special one drop at a time type dispenser. I was thinking he could do the soap and shake the solution. If something costs as dearly as that cinnamon oil did (and is also in a glass bottle) I generally get to be the one touching it. I bought it to use in bath salts that I sometimes make. If an undiluted drop gets on the skin it turns bright red. Diluted it doesn't effect the skin as far as I have noticed. He knows better than to touch certain things, but sometimes it seems he pushes the envelope see how things work.

All of my plants have their own area in my back room with the exception of the phals (I like to keep a close eye on them). It has a concrete floor, and there is a door out to a concrete slab area which is also near the waterhose. I also have the benefit of the laundry room being connected but separate to this room (I converted my carport).

My dends and catt were outside until recently and the dends were sitting on a table by a tree that has a ivy all over it. In fact all of my plants were just brought in recently, my orchids only make up about a 1/4 of my collection. I believe the ivy was carrying the mites, and reinfesting the plants quicker than I could keep them off. The catts were all hanging in a paw paw tree on the other side of the yard and thus were not infested by much of anything as far as I have seen. The phals and my miltonidium are also pest free.

Does Dawn have organophosphates? I use it for several things. Dawn, vinegar, and sometimes bleach is really all I clean with for the most part. Although, because I was a CMA for years, I do occasionally use hospital grade lysol for deep cleaning.

Viv,
To get Safer's Soap I have to order it or drive an hour, so I am making do for the time being. I will get to it though.
It stinks I left the house this mornng at 10:30 a.m. then I was home for 20 minutes to get my homework, then to class and straight to trick or treating until 9:30 p.m. My dogs were really mad, they had to have the kids take care of them after school instead of mom time (big babies). I have even got a few orchids that are acting a little bent today also lol. Well looks like this book is the only post I am getting done for the day-sorry about the length, My name is Brook, they just had to name me for something that babbles.

Thanks ladies and gentleman. I will post some results tomorrow afternoon, I will be trying this on a couple of my other plants (non orchid) also.

[pikevi]

I don't think you have to worry about Dawn, or lysol. The former is harmless since it is just soap. Will probably have a bit of mineral salts, glycerine , glycerol and of course fatty acids. The latter has organic compounds (NOT organophosphate) that have aroma (I think they are called aromatic compounds derived from benzene)

The only concern , from what I know, is that it can cause severe skin irritation in high concentration. Once diluted it should be harmless.

Studies have shown that upto 12 years of age organophosphates can affect children's development ( no need for details , I hope). The worst effect is when they are 1-2 years old and gets progressively less and less as they grow. Even though your son is almost at the upper end of the range I will try to avoid using it 'inside' the house since it may not break down/wash away as fast as if it is outside.

I hope it helps.

Good luck.

[brookn]

Thanks Pikevi, I was planning to spray everything out on my concrete slab outside. He will just be mixing, I will be spraying, I can't imagine all the things he would be spraying if I handed it over to his care lol. The spray I am making:
2-4 drops Dawn
2 drops cinnamon oil
1 quart water
I will adjust as necessary I am not sure if I will need more cinnamon than that yet.

I do have another question, has anyone used vinegar on their orchids? I use it diluted when I bathe my dogs, and have used it for many other purposes besides cleaning. I know it has some antibacterial properties, bugs don't like it, and I hear it also can act as a fungicide. Any thoughts?

[11Orchid126]

Bear in mind that mites are not insects, therefore insecticides won't work on them. If you can see them, they're not mites. Anything that says it's good for roses is supposed to be good for orchids. You might try 1 cup Formula 409 and 1 cup alcohol to two cups water. Another solution is 1/2 cup Murphy's Oil Soap to 1 gallon of water.

[pikevi]

I don't think it is a good idea to use vinegar in any dilution on orchids. It is an acid (acetic acid) and vinegar has roughly about 5 %.

Besides the smell it may increase the acidity (pH) of the medium and from what I have read here on the forum threads , some orchids DO NOT like acidity.

I know it is an excellent and harmless cleansing agent besides being a preservative. It should stay that way I think.

Unless some other experienced member says otherwise do not use it on orchids.

[WIB]

Cynthia is very knowledgeable about pesticides and fungicides. Look for some of her posts on this topic. -- Bill

[brookn]

pikevi, I was thinking leaf wash or dabbing on spots that have rot possibly.

Bill I have read cynthia's post on insecticides, and that is where the quandary came in, as the Bayer 3 n 1 that she reccomends only comes in a huge bottle where I am at. I was actually hoping she would weigh in on the ones I mentioned originally, the bifrenthrin, Sevin spray, and Ortho spray. Spray bottles are easier for me to manage with the kids and the pets, and the large bottle would just go to waste. I do prefer the idea of using a more natural spray on them.

126, I can see the mites with a magnifyng glass, even still, I know that is what is at the plants. I have been fighting them all summer because of the ivy tree. My house is about 80 or so and this tree is huge and covered with the ivy, so it is impossible to treat the ivy without say a firehose lol. That tree is full of bugs, birds, and has even trapped one of my cats (it was not fun trying to find her). I have a few other plants that were in the same area, and I need to treat them as well just as a preventative. Thanks for the other suggestions, that gives me more options.

[WIB]

Oh, right. I think Cynthia wrote at one time that she has something like 1,000 plants, so I imagine she thinks more in terms of industrial quantities than do the chippers among us.

Wikipedia has an article on miticides that suggests that some common preparations used to control ticks and fleas might also work with mites.

Miticide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Bill

[PhalPal]

Most of us grow indoors and not in greenhouses, so mega-chemicals are not a good option for us and the beasts that live among us. (kids included under the heading of 'beasts') I can see where a hard core arsonal would be necessary as a first strike treatment when a large quantity of plants are involved. I prefer to avoid anything that suggests wearing gloves or masks while handling.