Masdevallia with wrinkled leaves

[dipasquo]

I don't know how else to describe it. I have a masdavalia that has been putting up quite a few new leaf-shoots over the past few months. However, most of the new leaves come up - how else to describe it - wrinkled? I am not sure if this is a problem or the normal appearance of new masdavalia growth. These new leaves seem to un-wrinkle a little bit as they get bigger, but none of them are as flat and open as the older leaves that where on the plant when I got it. Ideas?

[Bolero]

Have you looked at the roots? Try repotting so you can see what's happening underneath the plant. Is anything rotten or is it too dry?

It does sound unusual that the new leaves are wrinkling like that. A photo might help as well. The only thing I can think of is that the new leaves aren't getting enough water most likely through root loss. But it's impossible to say without more info.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Humidity. They are cloud forest plants, so they get daily mist baths, evening and morning. If the humidity drops below 60% or so, especially for extended periods, the leaves will crinkle in the sheathing bracts.

-Cj

[kmarch]

These pleated leaves are almost always the result of being to dry and/or having too little humidity.

[fred]

another idea would be to use sphagnum moss for a potting medium for the Masdevallia's as well as misting the leaves

[Bolero]

I have low humidity issues but have never seen this happen to any of my plants. Misting sounds like a good idea though and see if that helps.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by Bolero

I have low humidity issues but have never seen this happen to any of my plants. Misting sounds like a good idea though and see if that helps.

It has to do with the environment in which these plants naturally occur and to which they are adapted. They grow in mist-bathed cloud forests, where the humidity very very rarely goes below 70%. WIthout the constantly moist air, the new growths get stuck in the bracts, almost as if there isn't enough lubrication for them to slide out. Odontoglossums and Miltoniopsis have similar problems with low humidity, and incidentally come from the same general environment.

-Cj

[Bolero]

Originally Posted by Orchidflowerchild

It has to do with the environment in which these plants naturally occur and to which they are adapted. They grow in mist-bathed cloud forests, where the humidity very very rarely goes below 70%. WIthout the constantly moist air, the new growths get stuck in the bracts, almost as if there isn't enough lubrication for them to slide out. Odontoglossums and Miltoniopsis have similar problems with low humidity, and incidentally come from the same general environment.

-Cj

I understand what you're saying and I don't doubt it's true. What I am saying though is that I own about 60 Masdevallias and Draculas and this has never been a problem for me despite the humidity varying anywhere between 10% and 90% depending on the time of day and the time of year. I haven't witnessed this happening but from now on I will be more conscious of this possibility. I have been growing them for about 6 years or so in a very cool to hot climate.

[Orchidflowerchild]

Originally Posted by Bolero

I understand what you're saying and I don't doubt it's true. What I am saying though is that I own about 60 Masdevallias and Draculas and this has never been a problem for me despite the humidity varying anywhere between 10% and 90% depending on the time of day and the time of year. I haven't witnessed this happening but from now on I will be more conscious of this possibility. I have been growing them for about 6 years or so in a very cool to hot climate.

Hmmmm.... Is it a hybrid or species? I find that sometimes some plants are more finicky than others. Maybe it's a particularly persnikety species or has a couple in it's background? For some reason, I read your original post as you had just the one Masd.

Blonde roots, I tells ya. Blonde roots.

-Cj

[Bolero]

That's ok, I may not have worded it properly. I have started misting the plants, even though they grow ok I don't want to risk it.

I have 4 in spike right now and will post pictures when they all flower.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

As I have mentioned else where, Miltonias are known to wrinkle from too much magnesium. Something for people to be aware of who like to use Epsom salts. Don't know if Masdies are sensitive, but this particular one may be.

[dipasquo]

Thanks for all the tips. I didn't want to risk overwatering but I will give regular misting a try. The symptoms do match up - some of the new leaf growth does seem to get stuck in the sheath. I have helped out a few times by snipping the sheath or breaking it with my finger, but the leaves still wind up wrinkled.

[kmarch]

I only have a few so perhaps those who grow a lot can clarify but i believe it is tough to overwater Masdevallias

[dipasquo]

Thought people - who are always so helpful - would appreciate an update. I've moved this plant from an eastern to a southern window and have been misting a few times a week. We've also been having a lot of rain so it's more humid in general. One way or another this plant has been doing quite well, and has put up 4 flower spikes in the past few weeks. Three are pictured here, with the fourth hidden from view on the other side.

[fred]

now that what I call a good news update
your plant look pretty good
thank you for sharing with us

[sandra]

Regarding sphag., I just moved my one Masdevallia into it, packed it very losely. I'm a little concerned though with how to water this plant. Is there one method over another that works best for watering in sphag? From the top? Soak it up from the bottom? Spray into the pot? No matter how lightly the sphag. is packed, it always seems to retain (almost) too much water and the pot (plastic) get's very heavy?

[sandra]

bumping up

[dipasquo]

Well, I'm afraid I might be learning the hard way what happens to a Masdevallia when it doesn't get enough humidity. Three out of four flowers that came up have failed to open properly. I was hoping they'd open eventually but only the last one to come up - which perhaps has benefited from the wet air we've had from the recent rain - has opened all the way. You can see what the others look like in the photo.

[_cor]

To me and I have hundreds of masdies, this seems to be a normal thing for some hybrids but it is certainly not helped by low humidity. Anything with unifloria seems to do it. With Harlequin being a prime example.
Masdevallia veitchiana & quite a few of its hybrids also have an issue of the new leaves not releasing from the sheath. You will notice the sheath splits near the bottom and the lower part of the leaf starts to push it way out. Causing the whole leaf shape to deform. You need to be VERY careful when releasing these that you don’t break the leaf. (Hope that made sense)
When you pot your masdies in spag, you need to be very careful not to over water them. While lots of water is not really a problem in its self, they do not like soggy, damp, cold mix. This will kill the roots as first as look at them. One of the keys to watering masdies is to have your whole collection in the same mix. Reason being, you will either under water the bark or over water the spag if your collection is in different mixes.
all of this is of course IMHO!
cor

[sandra]

Cor, I'm in the dark with the watering in sphag., don't know how to control and prevent too much/too little. I posted this question, (post #16, here.) Can you lend me some advice with this?

[janice]

I have a Vuyl. that is doing the same thing..............and I know I have a problem with humidity. I have added more water trays. I don't mist a lot - I have had enough root rot in my life that I get a little nervous about it.

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by sandra

Regarding sphag., I just moved my one Masdevallia into it, packed it very losely. I'm a little concerned though with how to water this plant. Is there one method over another that works best for watering in sphag? From the top? Soak it up from the bottom? Spray into the pot? No matter how lightly the sphag. is packed, it always seems to retain (almost) too much water and the pot (plastic) get's very heavy?

Spagh is really forgiving. You can do it either way by dunking the pot or watering from the top. I don't have any Masdies so I don't know much about them or the roots. I do know that moisture retention is great with spagh. Since you live in Florida are your plants indoors or out? You say humidity is a problem, being on the dry side. You do have to be careful cause when your humidity starts to increase, the moisture retention in the spagh will increase as well. I usually water from the top. But if I'm wormtea dunkin',,,,, well that obvious.

[_cor]

Best way to tell when to water spag is by the weight of the pot. Water and then check the weight, keep checking and you will notice that the weight will change as the pot dries out. Then once it has changed weight, time to water again.
cor

[sandra]

Originally Posted by articuno75

You say humidity is a problem, being on the dry side.

NO! Not I Jenny...never said humidity was a problem. Florida = humidity. It's a little after 9:00 a.m. here and the humidity is 94% right now, going into the high 80's today so I've got that covered, twofold. OK, I'll stop worry now.

Cor, thanks for your input. I'll just stop being too concerned with how heavy they feel after watering...that was my objection, suspecting the sphag. is retaining too much water. I can relax now.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Regarding sphag drying too slowly, I have a number of things in sphag in small clay pots, and they dry so fast, I have to water them every second or 3rd day. Humidity around 60%.

[articuno75]

With 100% spagh I water every 4-5 days. I've got a couple of orchids in a spagh/bark mix and it does help.

NO! Not I Jenny...never said humidity was a problem. Florida = humidity. It's a little after 9:00 a.m. here and the humidity is 94% right now, going into the high 80's today so I've got that covered, twofold. OK, I'll stop worry now.

I didn't know if you had these indoors or out. Sorry, my bad. Had me worried too. (When did Florida go dry, LoL.)

[dipasquo]

This is the first and only Masdevallia that I own so I don't know much about their growth pattern. I am noticing that there is a lot of new leaf growth around the circumference of the plant and a lot of yellowing/dying of leaves that are in the center of the plant. Is this normal behavior for Masdies? At some point in the not too distant future I'm going to have a donut-shaped orchid. On the other hand, the sheer amount of new growth is several times greater than any other orchid that I have.

[clarita]

I grow a lot of masde's; yellow/wrinkled leaves are likely from the plant not getting enough water. Either through underwatering or root degeneration. I grow them 2000-2500 fc's. Humidity is variable since they move outside in the summer. They like to stay moist and have no rest period with repect to water light and heat. Some are cool growing some are int-warm growing. I have them potted in many ways, spag is usually the easiest. If they are properly light then over-watering will not be an issue! :-)

Blasting masde's are IME from a sudden change in temps not humidity. IMO humidity is overrated when they are properly light and watered