puffy areas on my phal leaf

[brit6v]

Could someone tell me what these areas on the underside of one of my phal leaves is, please? When I touch them, they feel puffy and hollow.....not mushy at all.

I would appreciate your help.
Vicki

[Reg22]

I've never seen that, but I wanted to BUMP this thread. good luck.

[1joyceh]

I had similar on a cane dendrobium leave, I cut it off, treated the cut area with cinnamon, and never saw it on any other leave.
No idea what it was, but did not think it was good??

[brit6v]

Thank you,Reg...I needed that bump.
Vicki

Originally Posted by Reg22

I've never seen that, but I wanted to BUMP this thread. good luck.

[brit6v]

Thank you, Joyce! (By the way, I met the twin to your cute little praying mantis in your avatar yesterday. I came upon him on one of my plants in my greenhouse, but today I couldn't find him. Either he disguised himself, or left because there wasn't enough food supply (aka orchid varmits) for him there....which would be a good thing if that was the case).
Thanks again for your reply,
Vicki

Originally Posted by 1joyceh

I had similar on a cane dendrobium leave, I cut it off, treated the cut area with cinnamon, and never saw it on any other leave.
No idea what it was, but did not think it was good??

[1joyceh]

I am hoping, Vicki, someone will know what it is, and if I needed to remove the leave.
BIG SMILE!! Don't you love the little mantis, such friendly creatures, glad you had a visit, and whatever evil critters were lurking, they won't be bothering your babies any more!
Joyce

[Liberty White]

I never seen that before, certainly hope it isn't bad. It'll be good to know what it is if someone here knows.

Praying mantis' are the cutest, yet coolest, things.

[koshki]

Vicki, sorry to say this, but eww! I have no idea what's wrong, but I'd be freaking out if I were you!

Did this plant get sunburned? I had a dpts. that looked like yours on top, but not that I noticed on the bottom after I put it into too much light. Only took one afternoon, but dang! That leaf is still funky looking and will take a few years to finally "move on".

Has that area on the underside changed size since you posted?

I would like to know what it is...let's keep bumping this up until someone who knows see this.

[brit6v]

Hi...thanks for your reply and concern!
I plan to cut the leaf off tomorrow then treat the cut edge with cinnamon, whatever the problem is, then just keep my fingers crossed that will stop it in it's tracks.
Vicki
(Oh, and maybe I'll see Mr. Mantis in my greenhouse again tomorrow. I agree..he's a cute lil dude)

Originally Posted by Liberty White

I never seen that before, certainly hope it isn't bad. It'll be good to know what it is if someone here knows.

Praying mantis' are the cutest, yet coolest, things.

[brit6v]

My thoughts exactly, Katherine..... eww! Well, I freaked out alright....I've been down the sunburn road before (more than once, unfortunately)....and yes, sunburn does happen fast, as you said), but I've never seen blisters like that. Still, I plan to cut the leaf off tomorrow and apply cinnamon to the cut edge. It's been scorching hot and super sunny here in Alabama lately (Southern heatwave), so sunburn sure isn't out of the question.

Oh, I almost forgot to answer your other question: No, the blister areas haven't changed size at all.
Thanks for your reply,
Vicki

Originally Posted by koshki

Vicki, sorry to say this, but eww! I have no idea what's wrong, but I'd be freaking out if I were you!

Did this plant get sunburned? I had a dpts. that looked like yours on top, but not that I noticed on the bottom after I put it into too much light. Only took one afternoon, but dang! That leaf is still funky looking and will take a few years to finally "move on".

Has that area on the underside changed size since you posted?

I would like to know what it is...let's keep bumping this up until someone who knows see this.

[Puddy1]

This is curious...I would almost say sunburn but the blisters are weird

[BGGraham1]

I just googled 'blistered orchid leaves' and found this. PP244/PP164: Physiological Disorders of Orchids: Oedema

What it is basically saying is that its a type of water blister. Check it out. Maybe, given the weather that has been going on, this is what you have?

Oedema...it gives a diagnosis but not how to cure it. I guess you need to hold watering it for a week. I see the roots and its healthy...even in the 3rd picture shows the crown of the plant dry and healthy...you have some healthy leaves and a young sprout...I suggest cutting the damaged leaves and treat with cinammon...before it becomes rotted and do more damage.

[Brooke]

Please don't remove the leaf unless the tissue holds water in the raised areas or if the raised spots spread.

The last picture appears to be a slight sunburned leaf.

Brooke

[-k-]

I'm with Brook on this one, I would hold off removing it.... give it a few days and continue to monitor it... I agree it does look like sunburn and it may turn out ok... if it begins to fill with fluid the cells may collapse or if it gets mushy and brown...then you may want to consider either removing the leaf or cutting out the affected area and dust with some cinn.

[katrina]

I agree w/Brooke. As a matter of fact, in that last pic the leaf on the left side of the pic looks to have a bit of sunburn as well.

I'd leave it and watch. The plant already appears to be missing leaves and the more it loses the weaker it potentially becomes. If it's as I suspect, sunburn, the areas will get darker but the overall plant will be able to pull reserves from those damaged leaves while it makes new leaves.

[brit6v]

Hi Brigitte,
I read the article you sent to me, thanks. I believe two of my dens had this in the past, but I never learned what the problem was, so I didn't pursue it and my plants grew fine...no problems. The little bumps never went away, but nothing about them changed.

In this case, though, I would think that the blisters on my phal would have some type of substance to them if this is Oedema. Only guessing. These blisters are completely hollow....puffy somewhat like a balloon. In fact, I opened one last night and there was nothing inside but "air". Still

Whatever the case, Oedema might be the problem...so thanks again for your help.
Vicki

Originally Posted by BGGraham1

I just googled 'blistered orchid leaves' and found this. PP244/PP164: Physiological Disorders of Orchids: Oedema

What it is basically saying is that its a type of water blister. Check it out. Maybe, given the weather that has been going on, this is what you have?

[brit6v]

I totally agree, Barb....they certainly ARE weird. One good thing, though....I checked the plant a few mins. ago and the blisters have not spread....no change. One of my catts had a secondary bacterial infection from sunburn sometime back and it's appearance changed a LOT overnight....much worse. Sadly, it finally died.

Thanks for your reply....I appreciate your help.

Originally Posted by Puddy1

This is curious...I would almost say sunburn but the blisters are weird

[brit6v]

Hi Anky,
I agree with withholding water for a few days. That can't hurt....might help, if Oedema is indeed the prob.

Yes, the plant is healthy...not very large, but growing nicely.

Thanks for your reply and advice,
Vicki

Originally Posted by Anky

Oedema...it gives a diagnosis but not how to cure it. I guess you need to hold watering it for a week. I see the roots and its healthy...even in the 3rd picture shows the crown of the plant dry and healthy...you have some healthy leaves and a young sprout...I suggest cutting the damaged leaves and treat with cinammon...before it becomes rotted and do more damage.

[brit6v]

I had already planned to remove the leaf this morn., Brooke...but I decided to read each of your replies before I went to my greenhouse to do that. I'm glad I read your advice before I cut it, so now I'll just leave it as it is and watch it very closely. I moved it off to itself from it's place on the bench yesterday afternoon, but I've decided to bring it inside for awhile. Those blisters do look pretty scary, so I would rather not risk possibly putting my other orchids in jeopardy in case there's some problem that might spread.

Thanks for your advice,
Vicki

Originally Posted by Brooke

Please don't remove the leaf unless the tissue holds water in the raised areas or if the raised spots spread.

The last picture appears to be a slight sunburned leaf.

Brooke

[brit6v]

That's what I plan to do now...take yours and Brooke's advice, no cut it and monitor it closely.

I do say, though, I agreed with Anky as for cutting the leaf off because it looks so strange and I had a bad experience with a catt that had a secondary bacterial infection from sunburn....and as I have already mentioned, it soon died. My catt didn't look like this, though, the "blisters" had some substance to them, for one thing. They were somewhat mushy, too, whereas these blisters are not.

Maybe I'm too hasty sometimes , but I'm pretty paranoid about something spreading through my collection.

Thanks again for your help,
Vicki

Originally Posted by -k-

I'm with Brook on this one, I would hold off removing it.... give it a few days and continue to monitor it... I agree it does look like sunburn and it may turn out ok... if it begins to fill with fluid the cells may collapse or if it gets mushy and brown...then you may want to consider either removing the leaf or cutting out the affected area and dust with some cinn.

[brit6v]

Hi Katrina,
A week so so ago, I was checking another of my phals that is spiking and noticed one of it's leaves was darker and purple-ish. I knew then that it was probably on the edge of too much sun. I have no source for buying remnant shadecloth locally, so I put up some fabric (sheer curtain material) over my phals to hopefully shade them more. I haven't checked online for just "pieces", but I bought a 60% Aluminet full shadecloth online and it's there been on my greenhouse for about 2 or so yrs.

Anyway, I may have been too late adding the fabric, as far as this plant is concerned. oh, and by the way, I now see the other leaf you mentioned that has a bit of sunburn.

I pray the "heat fairy" will visit my greenhouse SOON and zap some of this awful heat out! I can't come up with a happy medium to keep it lower, so the high heat can't be helping my plants. Do you think that could be a contributing factor, as well?

In case anyone experiences a similar situation with blisters in the future, I'll update my thread if anything changes with mine.

Thanks for yours and everyone's advice,
Vicki

Originally Posted by katrina

I agree w/Brooke. As a matter of fact, in that last pic the leaf on the left side of the pic looks to have a bit of sunburn as well.

I'd leave it and watch. The plant already appears to be missing leaves and the more it loses the weaker it potentially becomes. If it's as I suspect, sunburn, the areas will get darker but the overall plant will be able to pull reserves from those damaged leaves while it makes new leaves.

[katrina]

Heat is a big issue if it climbs too high and is combined w/too much sun. I should take a pic of my poor Sarc... left in an area that was a bit too sunny but the bigger issue is it was right next to our blacktop drive. Poor thing got a bit cooked on the 2 leaves closest to that blacktop. It can be a nasty combo for sure.

I've been hosing my plants down mid-afternoon during our worst days (over the mid 90's). It really does help to cool the leaves a bit.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things though and I'm with you...most of the country could use a bit of cooling down.

[brit6v]

I wasn't familiar with the Sarc orchid (Sarcochilus, from what I read), so I goggled it...the bloom is pretty...I hope yours has snapped back and is doing well now. Are they difficult to grow? (Actually, somewhat answering my own question, I'm sure it depends a lot on growing conditions, as most orchids do.) Hmmm, on second thought, I dunno because I'm still pretty new to orchids (about 3 1/2 yrs.), so taking on one now might be too much for me. Either way, a picture would be nice if it's no problem for you sometime. I only saw the blooms when I searched, but I would like to see the plant, too.

Yes, all of us could certainly use some relief from this heat!

Thanks again for your reply and advice, Katrina.
Vicki

Originally Posted by katrina

Heat is a big issue if it climbs too high and is combined w/too much sun. I should take a pic of my poor Sarc... left in an area that was a bit too sunny but the bigger issue is it was right next to our blacktop drive. Poor thing got a bit cooked on the 2 leaves closest to that blacktop. It can be a nasty combo for sure.

I've been hosing my plants down mid-afternoon during our worst days (over the mid 90's). It really does help to cool the leaves a bit.

Sounds like you've got a good handle on things though and I'm with you...most of the country could use a bit of cooling down.

[katrina]

It was only the 2 leaves affected so it's no big deal really. Growing it is very, very easy...lots of new green and an absolute ton of big, fat roots. My problem is getting it to bloom. LOL!

I'm going to try leaving it out later in the Fall for more exposure to cold temps. If it doesn't bloom for me this next season...it'll have to find a new home. It is a pretty flower but if I never see one...then it's not earning it's place on my already crowded shelves.

I'll get a pic of all the lovely green this weekend and post it.

[11Orchid126]

You might try rubbing the blisters with triple anti-biotic from the drug store, or hydrogen peroxide.

[brit6v]

I've never heard of doing that.....hmmm, thanks. This is good food for thought.
Vicki

Originally Posted by 11Orchid126

You might try rubbing the blisters with triple anti-biotic from the drug store, or hydrogen peroxide.

[ChryssM]

My first impression was that the bumps were the bottom view & a reaction to sunburn.

Why do you think a praying mantis is "cute" ?? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE them, but they are far from cute !! Have you ever hatched out an egg mass of theirs, turned them loose & watched as they started eating each other ??? They are
P-R-E-D-A-T-O-R-S !!! They eat bugs A-L-I-V-E and THEY ARE bugs, so they are genetically cannabalistic !!! Cute ???? HAHAHAHA ! Hannibal Lecter cute !!

CHRYSS

[katrina]

Originally Posted by ChryssM

My first impression was that the bumps were the bottom view & a reaction to sunburn.

Why do you think a praying mantis is "cute" ?? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE them, but they are far from cute !! Have you ever hatched out an egg mass of theirs, turned them loose & watched as they started eating each other ??? They are
P-R-E-D-A-T-O-R-S !!! They eat bugs A-L-I-V-E and THEY ARE bugs, so they are genetically cannabalistic !!! Cute ???? HAHAHAHA ! Hannibal Lecter cute !!

CHRYSS

I think they're cute too. And yes, I've hatched them out and seen them eat each other. Survival of the fittest...at it's best.

[brit6v]

Geez Chryss,
Don't get all worked up about the little critters.....not good for the ole blood pressure, ya know.

Just kiddin' around.....I know what you mean.

Well, no, I've not had the "pleasure" of hatching out a Mantis egg mass, so I didn't know they were that cannabalistic. Actually, I didn't know they were genetically cannabalistic at all. I'm soft-hearted, so that's definitely not a pretty picture...same with SEEING them or anything eat a bug alive, or each other, for that matter. Visually disturbing I know it's cruel and mean when they do that, but hey...that's life in the bug world. It's a survival thing, ya know...they're just doing their job. Same as the big garden spider sitting on his web that's hanging off the eave of our open back porch. I just don't look.

Bottom line, though, I still think they're kinda cute (or maybe "cute" is not the correct word). For one thing, I think their alien head is sorta cool.

Thanks for your reply to my question...I'm trying to monitor my greenhouse sun and heat closer.

Here's my spider pic. Ain't he cute?!?
Vicki

Originally Posted by ChryssM

My first impression was that the bumps were the bottom view & a reaction to sunburn.

Why do you think a praying mantis is "cute" ?? Don't get me wrong, I LIKE them, but they are far from cute !! Have you ever hatched out an egg mass of theirs, turned them loose & watched as they started eating each other ??? They are
P-R-E-D-A-T-O-R-S !!! They eat bugs A-L-I-V-E and THEY ARE bugs, so they are genetically cannabalistic !!! Cute ???? HAHAHAHA ! Hannibal Lecter cute !!

CHRYSS

[katrina]

EEEEEK! SPiders freak me out!! BUT, many are beautiful.

Brit -- it's cool to watch a PM grab a grasshopper and MUNCH!...head chomped! And then to watch the PM eat the grasshopper from the top down. Usually leaving a leg or two. Gross but cool.

[brit6v]

My sentiments exactly, Katrina!! Spiders are soooo eerie (sp.?)!! They have ALWAYS freaked me out...especially black or brown fuzzy ones.....especially black!! I know the brown recluse bite is unusually dangerous, but there's just something about that "black" that really gets to me. There are some small spiders in my greenhouse (not fuzzy) but they don't bother me because I know that they're an asset since they consume many orchid pests. I'll leave them alone if they'll leave me alone. Back to the fuzzy black spiders....one day last week I thought I was going to have a heart attack when I casually looked up at a mount and saw one directly above my head on the gh ceiling! I could feel his eyes staring at me with a gleam of "gotcha now". Rodney, my husband, says I'm silly about spiders, but oh well, I remain silly. That's just me, I can't help it. It seems that you and I agree on many things but I guess I'll have to beg to differ with you in this case because I have yet to see what I think is a beautiful spider. I agree, though, nature is awesome.....so I know I shouldn't feel that way. Did you look at the picture of the garden spider I posted? Now, tell me he's/she's beautiful?!?

I found a cricket yesterday in our hot garage so I put him out in the lawn because I felt sorry for him in the hot garage-furnace. I love to hear the cricket sound at night, but I guess this little guy wasn't gonna be able to chime in the choir because he had only 1 back leg.

Maybe I should hush the "insect talk" because I'm afraid some other members might get upset with me since this is an "ORCHID forum".

By the way, have you thought about maybe sending your "NON-blooming" chid to me cuz it would fit right in....I have a greenhouse with mostly NON-bloomers. (Ok, I kid...but only to a point)

Another "by the way", where's the foliage pic.?

Thanks for replying,
Vicki

Originally Posted by katrina

EEEEEK! SPiders freak me out!! BUT, many are beautiful.

Brit -- it's cool to watch a PM grab a grasshopper and MUNCH!...head chomped! And then to watch the PM eat the grasshopper from the top down. Usually leaving a leg or two. Gross but cool.

[ChryssM]

LOL !!! Vicki and Kat, you both gave me a GOOD LOL !!! I DON'T get worked up & was just wondering if you had seen the real "cool" side of nature ??!!?? Kat has but I've got my doubts about you, Vicki !! Like you I USED to be arachnophobic, until the day I discovered that my FIST was bigger than that SPIDER, SPLAT !!! I go to regular AA meetings now (Arachnophobes Anon) and got over the SPLAT syndrome. LALL !

[katrina]

Brit -- I can't see the coloration so based on the silhouette alone...it would get knocked down w/a broom or some other loooooong handled item if it was anywhere near where I need to travel.

Here's a scary spider story...I've told it on here before so I'll apologize in advance to all of you are having to read it again.

A couple of years ago my husband and I were in the garage and we saw a Wolf spider (these are my biggest fear...these and the grass spiders). But not just your regular, scary, super-creepy Wolf Spider. No, this was the Mother of all Wolf Spiders...make you run for the hills - huge Wolf Spider. So, me freaking out...hubby goes to step on it. Just as his foot was coming down on the thing...just before contact was made...a gazillion babies jumped off and all over his legs, his feet and the floor and they scattered everywhere. Mama got squished but babies were everywhere.

We both screamed like little girls! I'm not kidding when I say it was hundreds...absolute hundreds...of itty bitty Wolf spiders all over the place. Hubby is jumping and dancing around trying to get them off of him and to squish as many as he could.

I had run to the other side of the garage and since I'm a safe distance away...I'm just watching. I ended up laughing so hard I nearly...well, I'll leave that part out...let's just say my sides hurt by the time the whole ordeal was over. I don't believe I have ever seen him move so fast, jump so high or heard him scream like that. Hilarious!

Before the laughter began...it was truly like something out of a horror movie...no lie. I had heard of spiders carrying their young on their back but I had never seen it in real life. Oh! And that's why Mama appeared so big...all those babies she was carrying.

Chyrss -- I'm not even very good at stepping on them because I get so spastic. Forget about splatting them w/my hands...you have to get close for that. No way...I'll stay away. Far, far away. The super teeny ones don't bother me too much but those Wolf and Grass spiders...EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!

[koshki]

omg, omg, omg, omg, omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brit6v]

I'm glad to hear from you, Chryss. I was jokingly concerned that you were getting yourself worked up into a frazzle.....it's hard to know in what way someone really means words when you don't know them, can't even see their face, or even when they either CAPITALIZE or C-A-P-A-T-A-L-I-Z-E when reading their typing.

I doubt that I've taken a lot of time to actually see a whole lot of the "cool" side of nature because, being (maybe overly [in certain situations] and somewhat unnecessarily-OCD) soft-hearted, I've spent my "nature-time" often trying to avoid the insect life and death experiences.....you know, the chain of life in the insect world. I realize that's just the way the world "goes round", though. So..I apologize if I misunderstood your intended meanings. (By the way, Rodney and I don't believe in rat traps.....we use tiny live cages and take the little critters to the woods and turn them loose.)

I'm gonna look in the phone book for the nearest AA meeting location (Arachnophobes Anonymous, as you say). Goodness knows, I need help. Honestly, though, I try not to get close enough to smush one....I either or run.

Vicki

Originally Posted by ChryssM

LOL !!! Vicki and Kat, you both gave me a GOOD LOL !!! I DON'T get worked up & was just wondering if you had seen the real "cool" side of nature ??!!?? Kat has but I've got my doubts about you, Vicki !! Like you I USED to be arachnophobic, until the day I discovered that my FIST was bigger than that SPIDER, SPLAT !!! I go to regular AA meetings now (Arachnophobes Anon) and got over the SPLAT syndrome. LALL !

[brit6v]

lol!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by koshki

omg, omg, omg, omg, omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[brit6v]

OH NO!!!!! YOUR POOR HUSBAND....AND YOU LAUGHTED?!?! Katrina, you should be ashamed. How BIG was the spider?!? Oh my gosh! Sounds like something on the Twilight Zone! Honestly, I would have ran to the nearest phone and called 911. No joke. Katrina, maybe you and your hubby need to clean out your garage more often, with armor on, by the way. What did you do about the babies you guys didn't smush?! I don't know for sure if I'd ever go out into the garage again.

Wheewww, my heart's beating fast just reading your story. Now, you've done it....I'll probably have nightmares tonight.

All silliness aside, thanks for sharing your heartwarming story.

Originally Posted by katrina

Brit -- I can't see the coloration so based on the silhouette alone...it would get knocked down w/a broom or some other loooooong handled item if it was anywhere near where I need to travel.

Here's a scary spider story...I've told it on here before so I'll apologize in advance to all of you are having to read it again.

A couple of years ago my husband and I were in the garage and we saw a Wolf spider (these are my biggest fear...these and the grass spiders). But not just your regular, scary, super-creepy Wolf Spider. No, this was the Mother of all Wolf Spiders...make you run for the hills - huge Wolf Spider. So, me freaking out...hubby goes to step on it. Just as his foot was coming down on the thing...just before contact was made...a gazillion babies jumped off and all over his legs, his feet and the floor and they scattered everywhere. Mama got squished but babies were everywhere.

We both screamed like little girls! I'm not kidding when I say it was hundreds...absolute hundreds...of itty bitty Wolf spiders all over the place. Hubby is jumping and dancing around trying to get them off of him and to squish as many as he could.

I had run to the other side of the garage and since I'm a safe distance away...I'm just watching. I ended up laughing so hard I nearly...well, I'll leave that part out...let's just say my sides hurt by the time the whole ordeal was over. I don't believe I have ever seen him move so fast, jump so high or heard him scream like that. Hilarious!

Before the laughter began...it was truly like something out of a horror movie...no lie. I had heard of spiders carrying their young on their back but I had never seen it in real life. Oh! And that's why Mama appeared so big...all those babies she was carrying.

Chyrss -- I'm not even very good at stepping on them because I get so spastic. Forget about splatting them w/my hands...you have to get close for that. No way...I'll stay away. Far, far away. The super teeny ones don't bother me too much but those Wolf and Grass spiders...EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEK!

[ChryssM]

I saw a pix of wolf spider in my Audubon Society Field Guide to North American Insects & Spiders while looking to see how to spell arachnoid, and YUCCK !!

Your story is right out of a Harry Potter movie !!! Too close to a tarantula for me, it's baseball bat time !!!

[Mira-Claude]

It really looks like a blisters and seems to act like it...
if it is similar to human ones, probing it, piercing it or even cutting it off could 'cause more damage than leaving it be. Even worse for something so large on such a small plant.
Blisters is a pouch of water created by living tissues to protect itself. It will or burst by itself and if it does spray cinnamon to prevent infection, or it will reabsorb and leave a slightly scar tissue.
I wouldn't touch it personally.

[Puddy1]

Reading hubby the spider stories...cracking up! You guys are too funny! BTW, wasn't the topic blisters on leaves?

[katrina]

There are many different kinds of Wolf Spiders but they are all big, dark and hairy. And they move at the speed of lightening!

BTW -- now that I'm thinking about it...one more reason to not get too close...the possibility of babies attacking! EEEEEEEEEEK!

Google Wolf Spider and Spiderlings....another big EEEEEEEK!




Sorry....

[katrina]

Originally Posted by brit6v

[SIZE="4"]OH NO!!!!! YOUR POOR HUSBAND....AND YOU LAUGHTED?!?! Katrina, you should be ashamed.

Guilty as charged. But, if you'd seen it...I'm telling you...you would've been laughing too. He didn't get hurt and he's not allergic to spider bites so he was fine. Traumatized....but fine.

Ok...sorry again...now....

[jannypan]

I met the twin to your cute little praying mantis in your avatar yesterday.