Just when things are going great...black rot strikes again!

[Shannara]

So....we went from having not enough rain to entirely too much rain. Raining days and nights. Today I discovered one of my rupicolous laelia hybrids was 90% gone from black rot. One nearby plant looks like it has it too but is in the early stages. The laelia looks beyond help and I don't want it anywhere near my orchids. I have had to quarantine quite a few plants and spray with a batch of Physan. I have sprayed the surrounding area with Physan and am putting the serious risk plants on my porch near a slow moving fan. I am going to cut off anything that shows rot and keep up with the Physan.

I have not been attentative to my orchids orchid lately and now I am going to lose some of my plants because of it. Just goes to show that you can never let your guard down. I need to make it a habit to eyeball each plant at least once a day. I should have caught this sooner!

Has anyone successfully saved a orchid from black rot? The last one I had was impossible. No matter how much I cut off and sprayed it just spread and spread until the plant was beyond help.

Shann~

[dounoharm]

the only thing i have found to stop the black rot is a copper based chemical....phyton 27......you might can find a different one, but thats the one i use.....i spray the entire gh benches and all with it about 4 times a year, and mix a small batch up for problem plants....it is terrible on flowers but the plants respond well to it....gl

[kmarch]

The rock laelias are not accustomed to having huge amounts of rain. Probably best to bring them in during heavy rains. This is a culture/conditions problem that can be prevented in the future. It's surprising how little water these rock laelias get by on. Do a little studying up on them and you'll see what I mean. And I'd recommend getting them out of the rain.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by dounoharm

the only thing i have found to stop the black rot is a copper based chemical....phyton 27......you might can find a different one, but thats the one i use.....i spray the entire gh benches and all with it about 4 times a year, and mix a small batch up for problem plants....it is terrible on flowers but the plants respond well to it....gl

Thank you for that tip. I will look around online for that product. I am feeling major guilt right now. I hate when I overlook these kind of problems.

Originally Posted by kmarch

The rock laelias are not accustomed to having huge amounts of rain. Probably best to bring them in during heavy rains. This is a culture/conditions problem that can be prevented in the future. It's surprising how little water these rock laelias get by on. Do a little studying up on them and you'll see what I mean. And I'd recommend getting them out of the rain.

Kevin you are 100% right. I am going outside now to get the other ones and put them on the covered porch. I knew they didn't need a lot of water and like I said...I was a bad orchid mommy. Well, I have a learned my lesson for sure.

Thanks you guys.

Shann~

[Dendian]

Yes, Shann, I have saved a few from the dreaded black rot. Not many - but a few.

Here is one of the things that did work for me. I cleaned out as best I could - then dunked the whole plant in Physan and let it soak, and then put it (un-potted) on the bottoms shelf with no water. I let it dry completely - until there was no soft areas. If anything went soft I cut it off and threw it away. Then I moved it on top of a bed of moss - but not touching it - just to get the humidity up for the leaves a bit (it was starting to shrivel by then).

I had one recover and grow roots - but it is very slow in growing. Another is at the moss bed stage right now - and the leaves haven't changed - but it is doing nothing - it may be because the new growth was what was rotted out. The other two pieces of that plant - one is starting new roots/growth - the other one succumbed completely and is gone.

One that was down there just a bit ago is an L. rubescens... it looked fine then started getting soft and mushy - so it became two pieces - one is sitting on top of a cork mount and the other by the sink. The one on the cork surprised me by putting out a new growth - and the other one is on the sink is doing nothing - but its not dying either????

Here's for you...

[berniep]

G'Day Shann

An interesting read on black rot Black Rot which offers a few ideas of treatment.

Cheers
Bernie

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by Dendian

Yes, Shann, I have saved a few from the dreaded black rot. Not many - but a few.

Here is one of the things that did work for me. I cleaned out as best I could - then dunked the whole plant in Physan and let it soak, and then put it (un-potted) on the bottoms shelf with no water. I let it dry completely - until there was no soft areas. If anything went soft I cut it off and threw it away. Then I moved it on top of a bed of moss - but not touching it - just to get the humidity up for the leaves a bit (it was starting to shrivel by then).

I had one recover and grow roots - but it is very slow in growing. Another is at the moss bed stage right now - and the leaves haven't changed - but it is doing nothing - it may be because the new growth was what was rotted out. The other two pieces of that plant - one is starting new roots/growth - the other one succumbed completely and is gone.

One that was down there just a bit ago is an L. rubescens... it looked fine then started getting soft and mushy - so it became two pieces - one is sitting on top of a cork mount and the other by the sink. The one on the cork surprised me by putting out a new growth - and the other one is on the sink is doing nothing - but its not dying either????

Here's for you...

Originally Posted by berniep

G'Day Shann

An interesting read on black rot Black Rot which offers a few ideas of treatment.

Cheers
Bernie

Thank you both so much. I am going to put all this information to good use!

You know how things come in three's? Well...something is seriously wrong with my PC too...it was hanging and freezing on me something bad. I had to move all my data over to another 2TB drive which has taken most of the night. I am now running diagnostics on my original drive. It had all of my photography on it so needless to say this has been a stressful day. Everything has transferred safely though. I am going to make another backup of my photos...I can't imagine losing all of my pictures!

On top of that my car is dead. Yay for me! *sigh*

I ordered some orchids to console myself.

Shann~

[Dendian]

Wow - after all that - I think you NEED some orchids... what did you order?

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by Dendian

Wow - after all that - I think you NEED some orchids... what did you order?

I ordered from the company who's orchid I killed to see if they still had it. Didn't see it on their site so I ordered some other Laelias they have in stock. Hopefully I will find another one to replace the one that died.

My current order:

Encyclia alata var. alba 'Lemon Mist' HCC/AOS x self
Holcoglossum amesianum (syn. V. amesianum)
L. grandis 'May Day' x L. grandis 'Pauwela'
L. rupestris 'Exotic's Pink Elf' x L. rupestris 'Miranda'
L. Icarus 'Valley Isle' x self
Ascf. Twinkle x Neof. falcata 'White Flamingo' AM/AOS

I am excited about the Holco in particular. So far my wangii is doing pretty well so I wanted to try this one out too.

Shann~

[Dendian]

Originally Posted by Shannara

My current order:

Encyclia alata var. alba 'Lemon Mist' HCC/AOS x self
Holcoglossum amesianum (syn. V. amesianum)
L. grandis 'May Day' x L. grandis 'Pauwela'
L. rupestris 'Exotic's Pink Elf' x L. rupestris 'Miranda'
L. Icarus 'Valley Isle' x self
Ascf. Twinkle x Neof. falcata 'White Flamingo' AM/AOS
Shann~

Wow! Nice! I have the Enc. alata v. alba 'Lemon Mist' HCC/AOS x self too.. I think I might know where you have been shopping.. I saw the Twinkle x Neo cross too.. and decided against it (already had my $$$ limit). If this rupicolorous Laelia does well I might just have to get a few more.. but only if it LIVES!!!! (And it does look like it will)

[Greybeard]

Oh dear! Shann, Murphy just won't leave anybody alone, will he I don't know anything about what your black root problem is but I hope, with the help you have gotten you can gain the upper hand My presription to you is more therapy orchids, to releave your stress I'm glad you were able to save your beautiful photo's, I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't see those enablers My prescription to you is, you guessed it more anti-panic orchids and what the heck throw in a hug orchid or two or three or four While your at it check out my thread "Little Update About Stuff" I hope luck shines upon you

[syndywindy]

So sad. There are days when I just don't want to scrutinize every orchid I have. And that's easier for me to do when they are outside for the summer months. I have several laelia and those get the most neglect in terms of watering because I know that is their culture. They get more of a misting than a watering. Kevin mentioned bringing them in when raining, but I've never done that so might be something to consider. Glad to see you have an order coming to cheer you a bit.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by Dendian

Wow! Nice! I have the Enc. alata v. alba 'Lemon Mist' HCC/AOS x self too.. I think I might know where you have been shopping.. I saw the Twinkle x Neo cross too.. and decided against it (already had my $$$ limit). If this rupicolorous Laelia does well I might just have to get a few more.. but only if it LIVES!!!! (And it does look like it will)

If you mean the place with purple tags then you guessed it...lol! I had been doing really well with my rupicolous until now. I am looking forward to the Neo hybrid and that alata alba.

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Oh dear! Shann, Murphy just won't leave anybody alone, will he I don't know anything about what your black root problem is but I hope, with the help you have gotten you can gain the upper hand My presription to you is more therapy orchids, to releave your stress I'm glad you were able to save your beautiful photo's, I don't know what I'd do if I couldn't see those enablers My prescription to you is, you guessed it more anti-panic orchids and what the heck throw in a hug orchid or two or three or four While your at it check out my thread "Little Update About Stuff" I hope luck shines upon you

Thank you for all of your positive energy! I need it. At least is hasn't rained yet today...the forcast showed rain from 7am on but they were wrong! It has been sunny all day so far. I am trying to devise a way to cover my orchids from the heavy rains but still allow airflow.

I will follow your prescription for more orchids and find a big one out there to go hug.

Originally Posted by syndywindy

So sad. There are days when I just don't want to scrutinize every orchid I have. And that's easier for me to do when they are outside for the summer months. I have several laelia and those get the most neglect in terms of watering because I know that is their culture. They get more of a misting than a watering. Kevin mentioned bringing them in when raining, but I've never done that so might be something to consider. Glad to see you have an order coming to cheer you a bit.

Thanks Synda. If your not receiving downpours everyday I am sure your little Laelias are okay. Maybe it's just me but I don't recall a summer like this since I was a kid. The rule during summer break used to be that everyday by 12pm or 1pm it would start to get overcast and rain. This year it is doing exactly that...starting to get overcast around noon then raining on and off all day long even into the night. It is the raining at night I really hate for my orchids.

Ah well.

Off to take care of my orchids...and post some photos in a bit too of my plicatas.

Shann~

[otis 226]

Hang in there, Shann...better days are a coming. (Like when that new pkg of 'chids arrives!)
I feel like I know kind of what you've been going through. Last week, things started breaking around this house one after another, not BIG things, but like a door would just quit working, fan dies, lawnmower needs help, ect. Then I lost my first phal yesterday, not a big shock, it was a sick little NoID from the big box around the corner, but I hated that I couldn't save it. Plus we've just got out of a serious drought down here and now we've been getting rained on with a vengence. The FL rainy season is really here!

So, good luck with saving those plants from black rot and Good growing with the new babies on their way. Nothing like a few new orchids to make things look brighter.
Best,
Tony

[ArtGeekMark]

I found this after work this afternoon on my psychopsis, it wasn't there yesterday that I noticed at least. At first I thought sunburn but then I remembered this talk about black rot lastnight, you all got me spooked! LOL Any ideas if it's sun damage, black rot, something else?

The dark spot is softer than the rest of the leaf.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by ArtGeekMark

I found this after work this afternoon on my psychopsis, it wasn't there yesterday that I noticed at least. At first I thought sunburn but then I remembered this talk about black rot lastnight, you all got me spooked! LOL Any ideas if it's sun damage, black rot, something else?

The dark spot is softer than the rest of the leaf.

It could be bacterial or fungal...it doesn't seem like black rot to me but I could always be wrong. I would cut off the leaf and dust the wound with cinnamon or give it a treatment with Physan 20 to prevent it from spreading after you cut it. Keep a close eye on it for awhile.

I've ordered some Phyton 27. From what I have read it is better for active disease in the plant tissue than Physan. The infected areas are supposed to become desiccated after treatment. Hopefully it will arrive by this weekend in case these others in quarantine orchids become much worse.

Shann~

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by otis 226

Hang in there, Shann...better days are a coming. (Like when that new pkg of 'chids arrives!)
I feel like I know kind of what you've been going through. Last week, things started breaking around this house one after another, not BIG things, but like a door would just quit working, fan dies, lawnmower needs help, ect. Then I lost my first phal yesterday, not a big shock, it was a sick little NoID from the big box around the corner, but I hated that I couldn't save it. Plus we've just got out of a serious drought down here and now we've been getting rained on with a vengence. The FL rainy season is really here!

So, good luck with saving those plants from black rot and Good growing with the new babies on their way. Nothing like a few new orchids to make things look brighter.
Best,
Tony

Sounds like things are coming at you in more than threes! Sorry about the Phal...it stinks to lose any orchid, even if it was sick to start with. The rain let up for 2 days though...which was a huge relief for me. Raining again today but all of my quaratine plants are under cover and the other Laelias are also out of the rain. I don't mind some rain during the day but these night long rains are too much for my chids. I need a greenhouse!

Hope you get all your broken items fixed around the house. All those little things can drive you crazy!

BTW the vendor who I bought that Laelia from is growing some more so I should be able to replace this one in the near future.

Shann~

[orchidaddict789]

Oh the dreaded black rot. I recently lost a catt because of black rot (even after I removed the affected new growth, the rot progressed to the other growths, which surprised me because I cut into clean tissue and applied fungicide). Yesterday I lost a vanda because of black rot at the crown, and another one was rescued just in time, because luckily, only its bottom leaves were affected. Now I'm spraying all my plants with an organic fungicide I found at Home Depot.

Nice new haul, btw! I'd love to see photos when they arrive!

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by orchidaddict789

Oh the dreaded black rot. I recently lost a catt because of black rot (even after I removed the affected new growth, the rot progressed to the other growths, which surprised me because I cut into clean tissue and applied fungicide). Yesterday I lost a vanda because of black rot at the crown, and another one was rescued just in time, because luckily, only its bottom leaves were affected. Now I'm spraying all my plants with an organic fungicide I found at Home Depot.

Nice new haul, btw! I'd love to see photos when they arrive!

Black rot really is the pits isn't it?! It looks like two others also have it that are in quaratine. My Phyton didn't show up in the mail today so I am crossing my fingers for Monday. If the two that have it die I won't be too heartbroken because I have a duplicate of one and the other can be replaced from the same vendor. Luckily this rot started on a bottom shelf with orchids that were already in questionable condition...besides the original Laelia.

I will take pics of the new orchids when they arrive...no worries there!

It rained again all day and I am not happy. I brought in a couple of orchids and put them near fans to help them dry. If it rains again tomorrow I am going to bring in any that need to dry out onto the porch. Some of the mounted plants are loving it though. They are all plumped up.

Shann~

[benauld]

This is the first time I've heard of this. Having looked it up the following seemed most useful out of the information available. I think it's aimed at large-scale horticulturalists, but I'm sure most of it can be adapted.

PP260/PP260: Black Rot of Orchids Caused by Phytophthora palmivora and Phytophthora cactorum

At least it makes interesting reading. I guess you can't blame a fungus for doing what fungi do. Circle of life and all that... but it still sucks, hope you get it sorted Shannara!

Ben.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by benauld

This is the first time I've heard of this. Having looked it up the following seemed most useful out of the information available. I think it's aimed at large-scale horticulturalists, but I'm sure most of it can be adapted.

PP260/PP260: Black Rot of Orchids Caused by Phytophthora palmivora and Phytophthora cactorum

At least it makes interesting reading. I guess you can't blame a fungus for doing what fungi do. Circle of life and all that... but it still sucks, hope you get it sorted Shannara!

Ben.

That article has some really good info. Thank you for that! I will look at all of their recommendations for prevention and treatment.

I have another orchid order coming. I waited awhile to place it, but I couldn't wait any longer. Here is what should be coming:

B. Little Stars. (nodosa x cordata)
Cattleya leopoldii v. alba x sib.
Den. peguanum
Den. wassellii
Enc. Boricana (alata x bractscens)
Enc. fehlingii
Enc. stellata
Enc. stellata x alata
Enc. stellata x bractescens
Psychopsis Butterfly
Psychopsis krameriana
Psychopsis Kalihi x Mendenhall
Psychopsis papilio x versteegianum

Shann~

[Greybeard]

Ahhh! Shann's going into orchid overload Holy cow girl your making me jealous with all those beauties your ordering I didn't prescribe that many you must be hitting up other enablers for more prescriptions

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

Ahhh! Shann's going into orchid overload Holy cow girl your making me jealous with all those beauties your ordering I didn't prescribe that many you must be hitting up other enablers for more prescriptions

This is nothing compared to me buying orchids at shows...LOL. I got a little overzealous though with my ordering. If I am going to place an order I might as well get the ones I really want. I went Psychopsis crazy and found two Den. species that are really wild looking!!

So in total I have ordered 19 plants from two vendors. At least one of the vendors always includes a freeby so I will probably end up with 20 plants. One of the orchids I ordered is a replacement for one that I am sure is a goner from the black rot. Everytime I look at it more leaves pop off and are black and the base. It is too far gone in my opinion for even treatment to save it.

I did a Physan spray last night after another horrible rain. I brought in some others that I didn't want rained on anymore. Today is sunny though! Hurray for that!! Hopefully no more rot!!

Shann~

[bearded orchid]

I'm excited to see your new Psychopsis!
I just repotted my kalihi in some specialty mix from repotme; hoping he makes a comeback. My giant x adventure is thriving and shooting out a new growth of some kind. I really love these orchids, lol.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by bearded orchid

I'm excited to see your new Psychopsis!
I just repotted my kalihi in some specialty mix from repotme; hoping he makes a comeback. My giant x adventure is thriving and shooting out a new growth of some kind. I really love these orchids, lol.

I am excited too. The one is a species which I was really happy about. It was the smallest in the group. It will be in a 2" pot and the rest are all in 3.5"-4". The prices were so good I couldn't say no!

Shann~

[plantloverlisa]

So sorry about your black rot encounter. But love the list of your new orchids! Who is the vendor with good prices? I need an uplift after a fight with scale.

[bearded orchid]

Nice! Depending on how they turn out, I may have to put in an order for some. Who did you order from?

[Shannara]

Update...the Phyton 27 arrived, which is the good news. Bad news is my baby Angraecum didieri also rotted. It was over hanging off another bench...nothing around it seems to show signs, but I sprayed last night with Physan so hopefully nothing will. I really liked that little plant. I know the vendor I got it from. Maybe next month I will put in an email to him to see if he still has some. I have never grown Angraecum before but I won't let this one dying get me down.

Most of my orchids look okay and I am running a line outside with a box fan to dry the ones near the back of the tables that don't get as much sun for drying out. I am playing a song called Roll with the Punches by Lenka to keep me upbeat. I might have to buy large sheets of plastic to put over my orchids if it rains again in the next couple days. I need a few days of no rain for these guys!

Originally Posted by plantloverlisa

So sorry about your black rot encounter. But love the list of your new orchids! Who is the vendor with good prices? I need an uplift after a fight with scale.

Originally Posted by bearded orchid

Nice! Depending on how they turn out, I may have to put in an order for some. Who did you order from?

Both the vendors I ordered from are great but H&R Nurseries is my favorite. They have the best selection of Encyclias, which are, of course, my favorite. They had a great selection on Psychopsis this time around. Most of their orchids are $15.00 and under for 3.5-4" and smaller ones range $6-$8. There are some really pricey Catts and species, so the prices will flucuate, but for the most part they are fantastic. I try to place a substantial order so the cost for shipping isn't so bad.

Summer Price List

Ordering Info

The other vendor is Exotic Orchids of Maui. I would also recommend Tropical Orchid Farm. All three of these guys are in Hawaii and sell the greatest plants. You can't beat their growing environment!

Lisa, scale is the pitts. In the past I battled tea scale something fierce...lost a number of orchids to that tiny pest. Sorry you are having troubles too.

Shann~

[Shannara]

Okay...I sprayed with Phyton 27 today. That stuff is a nasty consistancy...like tar! After reading all of the warning labels I put on some disposable gloves and kept well away from the stuff. I cut my Catt down to two p-bulbs that were not showing signs of rot yet. I had an already sick plant with scale catch the nasty rot too and sprayed it down. Two of the quarantine plants are not showing symptoms, but I sprayed them anyway.

Once that was done I sprayed down the areas where all of these plants were located when they came down with the rot. I thoroughly rinsed out my sprayer in a corner of the yard when I was finished. So far I lost my Laelia, Angraecum, and a Brassavola hybrid. The Brassavola is getting replaced and the grower for the Laelia should have some more this year. I am going to get another Angraecum when an opportunity presents itself.

All in all I have 5 plants either sick or dead ...that just stinks! Now I am paranoid about my other orchids. I am going to be an overbearing orchid mom for awhile. Good news is that an order of orchids should arrive tomorrow!

Thank you everyone for your help, input, comments, and general support.

Shann~

[benauld]

Is the amount of rain you're having unusual for your location? If it's a seasonal thing it might be worth investing in some sort of waterproof gazebo/awning. I think you can pick up a 10ft X 10ft model for around one hundred dollars, which may sound a lot, but then again I guess that's only a small fraction of the value of your entire orchid collection!

Ben.

[Filb]

Yikes! Three casualties!?

I am crossing my fingers that your treatments will work for the rest of the plants you're concerned about.

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by benauld

Is the amount of rain you're having unusual for your location? If it's a seasonal thing it might be worth investing in some sort of waterproof gazebo/awning. I think you can pick up a 10ft X 10ft model for around one hundred dollars, which may sound a lot, but then again I guess that's only a small fraction of the value of your entire orchid collection!

Ben.

This much rain isn't normal. Afternoon showers during the summer are but I have been getting rain all day and night for the most part over the last few weeks. First it was a drought and now this! At least in the drought I could control the amount of water.

You are very right about covering them up. At this point I am will to buy large rolls of plastic and just throw it over the benches and orchids during these long rainy periods. I will let you all know what I come up with.

Originally Posted by Filb

Yikes! Three casualties!?

I am crossing my fingers that your treatments will work for the rest of the plants you're concerned about.

Yes...three ...will mostly likely be more if the other two are responsive to the spray. New orchids are coming to cheer me up though. I spent a good couple hours in and out today checking orchids...taking pictures, and seeing if anyone else has issues. I haven't found anymore so far (knock on wood). I sprayed with Physan the other night so lets hope that helped!

It hasn't rained yesterday or today. I am going to look at some local hardware store tonight and see what they have. The forcast shows rain for the rest of the week but it is hard to say what will really happen.

Shann~

[BGGraham1]

Yikes! I'm sorry that you lost some babies, too. However, like you said, you have a new shipment coming in, so that should help salve the wounds a bit. Maybe you should go ahead and get the mariae as a bonus?

[benauld]

Originally Posted by Shannara

At this point I am will to buy large rolls of plastic and just throw it over the benches and orchids during these long rainy periods.

Be careful that you don't allow water to pool on top of the plastic, water - even in relatively small amounts - is heavy, just think how light an empty water bottle is in comparison to a full one, you don't want to be nursing crushed orchids too!

Ben.

[Stitz]

I just began to read this thread. I have "been there".

Fungicide treatments should not be considered systemic, although the advertisements might make that claim. It is better to excise (surgically cut) any obviously contaminated portions of your plant before you treat it.

I put my plants outdoors during this time of year. Some years, my plants have weathered wet periods and some died after 3+ weeks of daily rain. doo-doo happens.

It's especially important to learn from the experience. What media might be an improvement for the future, etecetc......... Which ones must be protected and how early does rain become excessive?

Learning from this experience may reduce your costs of replacement plants. It will certainly reduce the stress! Regardless, doo-doo happens.

--Stitz--

[Shannara]

One more appears to have some rot. I think it's because the growth on this one is new and the bract (Thanks Kevin for learning the correct term in another thread) was very tight around the new growth and any water that dripped between the two forming leaves would have been trapped.

I have cut the new growth about an inch down from the infected area and sprayed the entire plant with Phyton. The wound looked clean and I dusted it with cinnamon after the spray.

The surrounding plants were also treated and I treated the area on the bench also. I think I caught this one in time and will be keeping a very close eye on it.

Of the other two I treated that are still alive, one looks good with no new signs of rot and new roots starting, the other still looks funky. I have been reorganizing my tables and have a few dozen more to go over. A couple had mild scale and are being treated. The rain has let up quite a bit other than the monsoon we had on Monday. Today and yesterday have been sunny!

Thanks all for your great advice.

Shann~

[Ladyofthelakes]

I think my Pot Deanna Sanders had black rot, though the black was right at the tip of one leaf. I cut the bulb out. My D-I-L same plant developed one black tip just like mine did and am a little hesitant to cut hers. These two orchids are the only chids that developed the black spot...curious.

Thanks for the post Shann