Bayer 3 in 1

[Greybeard]

I have been seeing alot of threads in this section about Bayer 3 in 1 systemic in controling pests after the infestation has occured. My question is this; Can it be used as a preventitive measure against these little buggers without harming the plants(maybe not as frequently) or is it only effective after the fact I'm not worried as of yet as I have no pesky buggers on my plants right now but was wondering if this might be a usefull tool against them Everything has a purpose on this world so I think theirs is to keep us Orchid lovers on our toes

[Filb]

This is not the type of insecticide to be used as a preventative (most shouldn't).

The only instance where one might want to do that is if you had a large scale growing operation and noticed an infestation starting on some plants but not on others.

The insecticide won't harm the plants but using it this way, ecologically speaking, is very irresponsible. It can lead to insect resistance and reduce the effectiveness of the pesticide over time.

Hope that helps!

[otis 226]

Exactly as Rachel states. Especially for someone with just a few plants, this isn't a good idea. Save it for when its needed and try to get an ID on any buggers before using a shotgun type approach to chemical use Before using, if possible.
Tony

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I have been seeing alot of threads in this section about Bayer 3 in 1 systemic in controling pests after the infestation has occured. My question is this; Can it be used as a preventitive measure against these little buggers without harming the plants(maybe not as frequently) or is it only effective after the fact I'm not worried as of yet as I have no pesky buggers on my plants right now but was wondering if this might be a usefull tool against them Everything has a purpose on this world so I think theirs is to keep us Orchid lovers on our toes

Greybeard, I use the Bayer Complete Insect Killer (imidacloprid, beta-cyfluthrin) as a preventive insecticide. Sometimes, I catch 'em in the act but that really isn't the purpose.

After I use up my current hoard of Complete Insect Killer, I wiill reconsider your Bayer product - 3 in 1. I understand that it also attacks spider mites. Imidacloprid (the systemic insecticide in Bayer Complete Insect Killer) - I have read that it promotes the growth of spider mites!

Spider mites have never been a problem for my orchids. I dearly love Calathea makoyana which is a spider mite magnet here! I just trashed all of my Marantaceae plants during early spring after I discovered a return infestation, alone on this species.

--Stitz--

[Greybeard]

Thanks everyone who has responded so far, it is most helpful My collection is very small, one NoID Phal and two new youngsters from the grow project list#3 on the way I was wanting to be responsible with anything I tried as I try to be as "green" as possible and if waiting to see that first sign of a problem is what I must do I will, I mean the world is full of bugs and we can't do a thing about it

[otis 226]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

I mean the world is full of bugs and we can't do a thing about it

Very true, Greybeard, and remember only a VERY small percentage of bugs are harmful to our plants!

I guess my attitude is 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Good luck with your new project plants. I hope they do great for you and keep us posted on your progress.
Cheers,
Tony

[Ray]

I generally don't like preventive treatments, as that can be a major factor in how resistant strains develop - that and incomplete treatments and not rotating pesticides.

I agree with Tony - if you're observant, you can usually catch invaders while their population is still small and localized, and zap 'em with a killer at that time.

[rcb]

Stitz, according to the MSDS, 3 in 1 also contains imidacloprid - http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...7a389584be.pdf

Also, I can tell you last season, I tried the 3 in 1 for mite control. It did absolutely nothing to the mites. Nada, zip etc.

Interesting, and by no means proof, this season, after the first mite attack, I was using Sevin and the Bayer Insect Killer, rotating them. No mites after I started using the Sevin. May be coincidence, but I still have not had a mite attack on the Catasetums.

Greybeard, I agree with Rachel. If you don't have a problem, no need to do anything. Especially since you grow inside right?

And even if it "catches" something, with a few plants, growing inside, home remedies should probably be tried first, unless the problem is severe.

[Greybeard]

Originally Posted by rcb

Stitz, according to the MSDS, 3 in 1 also contains imidacloprid - http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...7a389584be.pdf

Also, I can tell you last season, I tried the 3 in 1 for mite control. It did absolutely nothing to the mites. Nada, zip etc.

Interesting, and by no means proof, this season, after the first mite attack, I was using Sevin and the Bayer Insect Killer, rotating them. No mites after I started using the Sevin. May be coincidence, but I still have not had a mite attack on the Catasetums.

Greybeard, I agree with Rachel. If you don't have a problem, no need to do anything. Especially since you grow inside right?

And even if it "catches" something, with a few plants, growing inside, home remedies should probably be tried first, unless the problem is severe.

Thank you all, this has been most informative, give yourselves a hardy pat on the back It was just something that kind of nagged at me a bit and burned the question in my head. Yes I grow mostly indoors as my shade corner on my deck is waiting for my back to heal enough to modify it to my liking for my Orchids. I heartely agree with " If it aint broke don't fix it" so no problem don't squirt it You all can quote me on that no charge Thanks again for your helpful input

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by rcb

Stitz, according to the MSDS, 3 in 1 also contains imidacloprid - http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...7a389584be.pdf

Also, I can tell you last season, I tried the 3 in 1 for mite control. It did absolutely nothing to the mites. Nada, zip etc.

Interesting, and by no means proof, this season, after the first mite attack, I was using Sevin and the Bayer Insect Killer, rotating them. No mites after I started using the Sevin. May be coincidence, but I still have not had a mite attack on the Catasetums.

Renee, Thank you for your input re: spider mites and Bayer 3 in 1. I won't bother reconsidering 3 in 1 for future use after your "testimonial".

I need to learn the use of horticultural oil for mites. Even then, I'm not certain if it's worth the effort. I have bushes immediately outside the front door which are mite magnets. Every time that I open the door, I'm certain that a few get sucked/swept in!

I was aware that Bayer 3 in 1 contains imidacloprid. Thanks for the heads-up.

--Stitz--

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Stitz

I wiill reconsider your Bayer product - 3 in 1. I understand that it also attacks spider mites. Imidacloprid (the systemic insecticide in Bayer Complete Insect Killer) - I have read that it promotes the growth of spider mites!

AND...

Originally Posted by rcb

Stitz, according to the MSDS, 3 in 1 also contains imidacloprid - http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/pdf...7a389584be.pdf

Also, I can tell you last season, I tried the 3 in 1 for mite control. It did absolutely nothing to the mites. Nada, zip etc.

Imidacloprid is not really effective against spider mites. If anything, it kills the spidermites' predators, which leads to more spider mites. It's the Tau-fluvalinate in Bayer 3 in 1 that will kill them. However, Tau-fluvalinate is not systemic and you need to thoroughly cover the entire plant if you want to effectively control spidermites. Spidermites are also notorious for building up resistance to pesticides so you'll need to rotate Bayer 3 in 1 with another miticide (not another pyrethroid) so you don't have problems with resistance.

[orchids4me]

Interesting and informative thread , thanks for posting it

[lmartiny]

I use it occasionally. Enough people here use it that I felt comfortable using it safely on orchids. I just don't like the residue left on the leaves with so many of the sprays. I do mainly zero in on noted problems. I don't spray or fert much at all. I've used the 3 in 1 to drench/water a couple of other problem plants for pests. Somewhere here on geeks it was said it does not have a miticyde and use Natria. I use these two but not on a regular basis. I don't think it is that harmful for a small time hobbyist to use these types of things as needed.