Accuracy of home virus tests

[koshki]

I recently purchased an orchid (phal equestris) that had leaves I thought were suspect. So I bought some test strips from Agdia and tested a leaf.

It came up positive for both ORSV and CymMV. I contacted the seller, who responded that the plants couldn't possibly be virused, since they are collected in the wild, and that those tests are not worth the money; if I really wanted it tested I'd have to send it to a lab.

So, are either of these statements true?

[Ron]

Originally Posted by koshki

I recently purchased an orchid (phal equestris) that had leaves I thought were suspect. So I bought some test strips from Agdia and tested a leaf.

It came up positive for both ORSV and CymMV. I contacted the seller, who responded that the plants couldn't possibly be virused, since they are collected in the wild, and that those tests are not worth the money; if I really wanted it tested I'd have to send it to a lab.

So, are either of these statements true?

It came up positive for both ORSV and CymMV.

The test kits are only designed to pick out the basic few main virus problems.
Accuracy I suspect would be in the 95% range, most likely 99%.

I contacted the seller, who responded that the plants couldn't possibly be virused, since they are collected in the wild,

This is the common comment most rouge or poorly run nursery use.
In Australia the CSIRO and other research Universitys run research on Australian Orchids and often 40 to 50 % of wild orchids in certain areas are viruses.
Carried from crops insects etc.
Another cop out.

and that those tests are not worth the money; if I really wanted it tested I'd have to send it to a lab.

These were basically made for in the field testing of suspect crops, if tested positive they would have further Lab test done to confirm them.
Not a waster of money as uses as directed.

[koshki]

Yeah, that's kinda what I thought. It was not the answer (from the vendor) I was expecting.

This was the first plant I have ever tested, and disturbing to come up positive.

[janet_a]

The seller claimed it was wild collected? Was this a mail order purchase?

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by koshki

I contacted the seller, who responded that the plants couldn't possibly be virused, since they are collected in the wild

You also have the option to contact the US Fish & Wildlife Service investigators. They are responsible for enforcing CITES within the USA. USDA/APHIS/PPQ might be interested as well! Of course, I assume that the US Government offices will be open after tomorrow!

--Stitz--

[koshki]

I thought I'd share my whole conversation:

ME: Dear ,

I purchased this orchid and the equestris alba transaction #150559187893 in February.

After reading other feedback about a plant, I became concerned that my plants were virused. I purchased test kits, and both plants are positive for both ORSV and CymMV.

I have not repotted these plants or cut the spikes...they have been isolated from all my other plants, so they could not have contracted these viruses here.

Please refund the cost of both plants and shipping charges.

Thank you,
Katherine


VENDOR: Hello...Equestris are a wild specie they don't get this virus they grow in the wild, They are not with any other orchids and don't come in contact with people at all only when we pull them from the tree's to be potted for shipping and then they are pulled and potted with gloves..Your test kit's don't work at all i had one person that said this and found the test kits are wrong as you can see she has purchased more orchids.The only test kit's that work are from test labs we have over 200 viruses to date that are invading orchids one test kit will not work ones you buy for $10.00 to $20.00 forget it a waste of your money, research show's test 100 plants with over 80 different viruses in all... 68 show no virus 17 show only 3 virus and 15 tested with 2 viruses..All wrong just a head's up. All of our orchids are tested by the state before packing for virus, bugs and root rot..Your orchid's are fine they have nothing at all, Don't waste your money on cheap test kit's they don't work at all,If your worried about other orchid's you need to send them to a real lab for testing that is the only way to be sure...Thank you

MY RESPONSE TODAY: So, you’re saying that if your plants test positive at a lab, you’ll refund my money?


Any bets on what the response will be?

[dounoharm]

i guess best thing to do it write it off, and not deal with this particular 'collector' or dealer in the future....i wonder if his plants were collected legally? i would just write it off to experience, and not spend any more money testing those plants....gl

[Dorchid]

Did you copy and paste the vendor's response? If so, it is packed full of misspellings, which I consider to be a sign of unprofessionalism in the first place. (Unless they are foreign, which is somewhat excusable.)
I would have the orchids tested in a lab and call them on their bluff. If they refuse to refund your money, spread the word about their unethical practices.

[koshki]

With the exception of removing the vendor's name, that is exactly his response.

[Stitz]

The Agdia tests ARE accurate, with limitations which are similar to lab tests from Critter Creek.

You noted that the purchase occured in February. Claims must be made immediately. Regardless of your precautions, a significant period of time elapsed since your purchase, receipt and claim. Opportunities abound for cross-contamination with your established plant collection over several weeks. Viral exposure takes very little quantity & time.

Some of the USA's most respected vendors sell virused plants, unknowingly and knowingly - it's a fact. It's a fact that consumers, like us, need to face and address.

Katherine, I don't doubt the truth in your statements. If your vendor wasn't a defensive a-hole, you would have replacement plants by now. Spread the word!

--Stitz--

[koshki]

I realize should have acted sooner. I belatedly saw seller feedback that mentioned the virused plants, and only then bought the test strips.

That said, I can also tell you that these plants NEVER were in contact or proximity with my other plants. They went immediately to a spot in a room where I keep no other orchids. There just simply was no opportunity for cross contamination.

However, that is not the position the vendor has taken. He defended himself by saying home tests are inaccurate, and I think he also slammed labs, but it's kind of hard to follow him in places.

I think the best advice I've heard so far is to ask vendors about their policy regarding virused plants before purchasing. From now on, that will be MY POLICY!!

[Ron]

All of our orchids are tested by the state before packing for virus, bugs and root rot..

Can you imagine any state department coming out to his place of business and testing all orchids prior to shipment. Do they do this for free!

Sounds like he is in the big Island state of USA, even their I doubt it would be legal now to collect plants from the wild.
Did they come with Cities documentation

[koshki]

The plants came from Florida.

[Ron]

Originally Posted by koshki

The plants came from Florida.

Thanks, interesting though

[koshki]

I feel like just about every statement he made was a lie. Big, fat, preposterous lies.

That vendor stiffed you. He should refund your money or gave you a new healthy plant in exchange for the virused one. No matter if time has passed. You are a customer and you are always right! You have a legitimate complaint and you spent money (it cost me $10 on Ebay for the same test kit you used) to test that plant. The vendor undermined you and tried to discredit a legitimate test done to his product.
I dont think selling orchids from the wild is legitimate anywhere at all. It is forbidden to harvest orchids from the wild. The vendor is ignorant about plant viruses; thinking it is from via contact with people therefore making a firm statement that the plant came from the wild and cannot be contaminated.
I feel that you have the right to expose that vendor and let everyone know about the virused plants being sold since it is not only you who complained but there were others. This has to stop or many contaminated plants will circulate. It might become pandemic. It is our duty to report this.

[NewGrower]

Hey there!

Where at in FL did they come from? Considering I have gotten all my plants locally, if there is a shady vendor I would like to know!

Also, we should get a sticky thread where everyone posts negative (legit!) experiences from vendors so we know where NOT to go in the future!

[NewGrower]

ALSO might I add, after my "Wild Orchids" post I found out it is illegal to take/ship any wild orchids found naturally in the state.

[terra_australis]

I don't believe the issue is that these plants are being removed from the wilds of Florida. This species is native to the Phillipines and other S.E. Asian islands so it sounds like the seller is a middle-man simply offloading plants that have been imported into the US (legally or otherwise). Unfortunately the laws are fairly lax in that part of the world so these practices are not uncommon and result in decimation of natural plant populations. On ethical grounds I would steer well clear of anyone who profited from such ecologically harmful practices. Beside that I would be concerned that this seller may be introducing pathogens to your local environment.

[NewGrower]

Ohhh I see! Well I would still like to know who this is so I dont buy from them! Awful!

[Greybeard]

Sorry to hear of you dilema, that is a vendor that I personally would no longer deal with, despite the accuracy or inaccuracy of the tests. It sounds like a shady operation because I have read that native orchids are protected and are not allowed to be removed from the wild As far as the tests themselves, you might be able to verify this through a local University or consumers affair orginization, I myself have had no need of this as of yet Knock on my noggin errrr.....wood Good luck and keep us posted on this please

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by NewGrower

ALSO might I add, after my "Wild Orchids" post I found out it is illegal to take/ship any wild orchids found naturally in the state.

What are "wild orchids" ?

Many growers/vendors in tropical climates choose to cultivate their orchid crops (including hybrids) affixed to trees rather than in unnatural, clay/plastic pots (which dramatically increase mortality). Some vendors choose to use temporary mounts on "artificial", tree fern poles - only to be ripped from the pole mount at a sooner/later time - which, of course, increases mortality rates.

What's the diff if your previously cultivated plant originates from a "mount" under a lath "house" or if it originates on a tree which is maintained by the same staff? None, if you happen to be the plant!

The LAW has a say.....which varies from one country to another. I haven't directly imported any plants for two years. I used to import annually. In recent years, I prefer to purchase imported plants from foreign vendors who bring their plants into the US. THEY walk them through Customs/USDA/Homeland Security/etc. Let THEM take the risks! Let THEM cull the survivors!

--Stitz--

[koshki]

Wow, surprised to see this one pop up again.

Folks, don't let the "wild collected" lie throw you off on this. It wasn't. They were both virused plants, plain and simple. I was tipped off on this by reading another customer's feedback who also received virused plants. Return shipping would have cost me more than the plants did in the first place, so I just elected to toss them in the trash and move on.

OG rules says I can't post the name of this vendor on line...PM me if you're interested. I won't buy from him again, no matter how pretty the plants look.