brown spots on Catt leaf

[brit6v]

Hi,
Could someone tell me what the brown splotches on my Catt leaf are, please? The spots are not mushy and seem to be about the same texture as the healthy part of the leaf itself. They are also indented. Whatever it is, how would you treat it?
Vicki

[orchids4me]

Hi I see a few things going on there.
Zooming in I see what appears to be a cut in the stalk that leaf is attached to and a lot of algae in your potting media that goes all the way through it to bottom. The cut possibly a infection in the leaf at first look I thought it was sun burned but not after seeing that long cut that is also brown. Was that treated with cinnamon powder when it happened?
If it was my chid I'd treat it for fungal /bacterial infection and clean the potting media is that clay or hydronton I don't know if I spelled that right ... Catts need to dry a bit between watering not stay soggy from what I've learned. Mine are in a schultz coarse mix with some fired clay balls in it so water flushes through I water 2 times a week and are happy and growing nicely by this method.
Though I cannot find shultz mix anywhere these days I had some left over from 2 years ago I used for them.
How long have you had them potted up that way? Just curious and what is that you are using?
Thanks
Emmaye

[syndywindy]

I don't think the fact you are growing in S/H is indicative of anything, I grow many catts in S/H and they love it. Also algae won't harm anything, it's just kind of ugly to look at. I only clean mine up if it really gets tolooking bad or if I plan on showing my orchid. How much sun is your orchid getting? Could be sunburn, but I would think other leaves would be affected as well. For a fungal or bacteria infection, I would cut the leaf below the affected area and sprinkle the cut end with cinnamon. You can use Physan or something with neem oil to control and prevent further problems.

[katrina]

I'm w/Synda...plenty of people grow catts in s/h and they do just fine provide they are being watered correctly. Plus, the algae isn't a problem.

The cut on the stem looks mechanical to me. I have a couple that have these splits...they heal over and have never been a problem other than they are ugly. Best I can tell...I would say it looks pretty well healed over to me.

My guess on the brown areas would be sunburn. I have (unfortunately) seen a similar problem on several of my plants. The overall yellow-green of the plant tells me it's probably getting a lot of light which leads me to the possibility of sunburn. Yellow-green color is not a problem on it's own...it's a good sign the plant is getting a lot of light (usually). However, too much of a good thing can cause a problem for the plant. That would be my best guess.

Another thing I'm seeing is a plant that looks a bit dehydrated. Which could also be from too much light. Could also be from simply over-watering the s/h.

How much light is it being exposed to? Any direct sun? Also, how long has it been in s/h and how often are you watering this plant?

[brit6v]

Thank you everyone!!
I want to re-reply to all of you, if poss....I really do appreciate your help! The stalk already had a cut in it when I bought the plant approx. 1 1/2 yrs. ago. As far as I could tell then, the cut seemed to be healed. I repotted the plant into S/H when it started growing new roots. I grow about 5 or 6 Catts and a couple of Dens in S/H, and same as Synda says...they all seem to love it. I also grow 2 Phals in S/H, but the jury's still out as to whether they're going to like S/H in my environment as much as the other types do. Katrina, you are correct in that my Catt is getting a lot of light...probably too much, so I will reposition it in a slightly shadier area in my greenhouse. By the way, it gets no direct sun...only full, filtered light. I have been trying to keep the fc between 2000 and and 2500 (is that the correct amount?), but I haven't been successful so far. It gets way to much sun, especially mid-day to mid-afternoon in the summer. In case there is fungus or bacteria involved, I think I will cut the leaf below the problem areas and treat the cut with cinnamon, as you advised, Synda. Katrina, if you don't mind...I have another question, please: You mentioned that the plant seems dehydrated. That confuses me if the problem is not light-related, because I don't understand how that can happen to an S/H plant since it lives in a moist environment ?? Will you please help me understand this? Also, I flush all my S/H orchids with water about 3 times ea. week. Is that too often? I do this because I understood that watering often keeps the "nutrient' (??) balance closer to what it should be. Emmaye, I have a comment about the potting medium you use....Schultz. I may be totally out of line mentioning this to you in a post thanking you for your help, but I mean no harm....only trying to help. In the past, this particular mix has seemed to be the consistency of potting soil. Maybe the problem was with only the one bag I bought, but I seem to recall reading the same from another member(s). Once again, I may be out of line, but I wanted to express my opinion to you in hopes (if I'm correct) my comment would be helpful to you. I will appreciate any other advice you have for me!

Again, thank all of you very much...
Vicki

[orchids4me]

No offense taken you must have had a different kind the Schultz I'm using is only med grade bark, charcoal chunks, and 1/2 inch fired clay balls or wads lol look more like wads anyways.
Thanks for replying
Emmaye

[katrina]

Mine are under shade cloth too and on a completely cloudless w/good sun day the fc's can go as high as 4500. But...in OH...even on the best of sunny days...we get some high clouds that come and go so it's not 4500 constant. I do have some catts that can't be on that upper shelf because it's too much light...they are on the second shelf which can get a max of 2500 fcs.

Since you're watering 3x a week...is that enough time between waterings for the reservoir to dry? You know how catts want to dry between waterings...perhaps yours isn't getting that dry time it needs. Possibly causing the roots to decline. Just a guess. Even though the roots aren't sitting in water...that constant moisture could be a problem.

I have some catts that want a good deal of water...to the point that they are barely dry and I water again. Others seem to do better when they have maybe a day or two of dryness between the waterings. Maybe yours wants a little more dry time.

Then again...I have zero experience w/catts in s/h so maybe Synda has a better idea as to what's going on there.

[jerrymeola]

I think you need not worry about disease.

If it was fungal it would be symmetrical, soft and growing.

I have seen hundreds like this and the best we can determine is that it is genetic especially with Cattleya that have Malvern it its family tree. It is confusing here in Florida since it is common in SW Florida and the same species do not have this problem in SE Florida.

It makes me think that it is generic but requires something to trigger the response. Possibly the move to s/h was just enough to trigger it, but many other things could also do it.

I find that the next set of leaves will be fine and eventually you can cut off the old leaves to make the plant look better.

[brit6v]

Thank you for understanding my comment, Emmaye. I am very glad to hear that your mix is not like the one I got. The one you use seems just fine, in my experience. It's basically the same that I use very often (depending on the plant type, of course)
Happy Growing,
Vicki

Originally Posted by orchids4me

No offense taken you must have had a different kind the Schultz I'm using is only med grade bark, charcoal chunks, and 1/2 inch fired clay balls or wads lol look more like wads anyways.
Thanks for replying
Emmaye

[brit6v]

Oh, I understand now! Thanks for clearing me up!

I will keep a closer watch on the plant and try to determine how much sun it likes best.

As for watering, I may have misunderstood the S/H watering regime. I wasn't letting any of the S/H reservoirs completely dry, so that is something I should look into further. I understood that even though Catts do like to dry completely between waterings (and of course that's how I water the ones in bark, etc.), they do fine in constant moisture, as long as the new roots are tailoring to live in that environment. I may be totally confused, so thanks for bringing the possibility to my attention. That's something I certainly need to know. This particular Catt may not like the constant moisture, so that is also something important for me to know, too.

Even though you say you have zero experience with Catts in S/H, you have given me some food for thought that I will definitely check out.
Thanks again,
Vicki

Originally Posted by katrina

Mine are under shade cloth too and on a completely cloudless w/good sun day the fc's can go as high as 4500. But...in OH...even on the best of sunny days...we get some high clouds that come and go so it's not 4500 constant. I do have some catts that can't be on that upper shelf because it's too much light...they are on the second shelf which can get a max of 2500 fcs.

Since you're watering 3x a week...is that enough time between waterings for the reservoir to dry? You know how catts want to dry between waterings...perhaps yours isn't getting that dry time it needs. Possibly causing the roots to decline. Just a guess. Even though the roots aren't sitting in water...that constant moisture could be a problem.

I have some catts that want a good deal of water...to the point that they are barely dry and I water again. Others seem to do better when they have maybe a day or two of dryness between the waterings. Maybe yours wants a little more dry time.

Then again...I have zero experience w/catts in s/h so maybe Synda has a better idea as to what's going on there.

[brit6v]

Thank you, Jerry! Disease is one less thing for me to worry about! I don't do good with 'brain overload'!

As Katrina did, you have also given me lots of good food for thought, and of course, great advice.

Thanks again,
Vicki

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

I think you need not worry about disease.

If it was fungal it would be symmetrical, soft and growing.

I have seen hundreds like this and the best we can determine is that it is genetic especially with Cattleya that have Malvern it its family tree. It is confusing here in Florida since it is common in SW Florida and the same species do not have this problem in SE Florida.

It makes me think that it is generic but requires something to trigger the response. Possibly the move to s/h was just enough to trigger it, but many other things could also do it.

I find that the next set of leaves will be fine and eventually you can cut off the old leaves to make the plant look better.

[syndywindy]

I never let the resevoir dry out comeplely for my catts or any other orchid growing in S/H. If I do, it is totally accidental. My catts have been growing this way for well over a year and they have adapted to the constant moisture. Mine are outside with no cover, if it rains, it rains. Doesn't matter if it rains for a couple days, they do fine. As for the amount of sun, I have a good situation. My patio is very well shaded. All my orchids get good early morning sun from maybe 6-9am, they are in shade/dappled sun until maybe 7pm where they get a bit more sun. We just had very severe thunderstorms roll through here Friday, not once but twice. Wind gusts reached 80 mph in some areas and almost 2 inches of rain fell and I was still out giving some water yesterday. The only thing I was upset about was I had just fertilized so all of it probably washed out with the rain.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

If it was fungal it would be symmetrical, soft and growing. ...it is genetic...

This isn't anything genetic. It's fungal. Not all fungal infections are symmetrical and fungal infections can progress quite slowly. I do agree however that it's probably nothing too serious to worry about.

Treat it with a good fungicide, make sure the leaves aren't kept wet and increase the air circulation around it. It'll probably be fine.

[brit6v]

Thank you again Synda!
I read more info about S/H after I talked with you and I found that you are absolutely correct.....never let the resevoir dry completely. That's what I understood when I started S/H, but many times, I misunderstand things.

Sounds like you have an ideal set up for your growing. As for your rainy and windy weather these days, and 'me knowing me as I do--I'm a scardy-cat', I would not feel comfortable leaving them outside in it, but I know and have read of many, many people who do with very good success. I just wish I was one of them who could. Actually, here in Alabama, I'm not able to do that, so that's probably why I'm leary. So, bottom line: I really envy you.

Thank you again....I always appreciate your help! Someone new, as I am, cannot learn too much.
Vicki

Originally Posted by syndywindy

I never let the resevoir dry out comeplely for my catts or any other orchid growing in S/H. If I do, it is totally accidental. My catts have been growing this way for well over a year and they have adapted to the constant moisture. Mine are outside with no cover, if it rains, it rains. Doesn't matter if it rains for a couple days, they do fine. As for the amount of sun, I have a good situation. My patio is very well shaded. All my orchids get good early morning sun from maybe 6-9am, they are in shade/dappled sun until maybe 7pm where they get a bit more sun. We just had very severe thunderstorms roll through here Friday, not once but twice. Wind gusts reached 80 mph in some areas and almost 2 inches of rain fell and I was still out giving some water yesterday. The only thing I was upset about was I had just fertilized so all of it probably washed out with the rain.

[brit6v]

Hi Kevin,
Thank you for replying to me, and as always, for your advice!
Since I wasn't sure exactly what to do after reading the other member's posts, I tried to play it on the safe side and treat it partially for fungus.....I cut the leaf below the problem areas and applied cinnamon to the cut. Now, the next thing to do is spray it with a fungicide, as you suggest. After reading advice on a different site, I found that cinnamon, alcohol and water left overnight....then straining the cinnamon the next morn., then applied as a spray, seemed to have worked for me on 2 sick Dens (time will tell). Do you have other suggetions that you feel might work better.....either a 'home remedy' (preferably) or something 'systemic' ??? I assume you feel that I should keep it isolated from my other orchids....correct?? If so, how long would you suggest I do this? I have two rather large fans in my greenhouse, and I'll be sure it's getting adequate circulation.
Thank you again,
Vicki

Originally Posted by kmarch

This isn't anything genetic. It's fungal. Not all fungal infections are symmetrical and fungal infections can progress quite slowly. I do agree however that it's probably nothing too serious to worry about.

Treat it with a good fungicide, make sure the leaves aren't kept wet and increase the air circulation around it. It'll probably be fine.

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by brit6v

Thank you again Synda!
I read more info about S/H after I talked with you and I found that you are absolutely correct.....never let the resevoir dry completely. That's what I understood when I started S/H, but many times, I misunderstand things.

Sounds like you have an ideal set up for your growing. As for your rainy and windy weather these days, and 'me knowing me as I do--I'm a scardy-cat', I would not feel comfortable leaving them outside in it, but I know and have read of many, many people who do with very good success. I just wish I was one of them who could. Actually, here in Alabama, I'm not able to do that, so that's probably why I'm leary. So, bottom line: I really envy you.

Thank you again....I always appreciate your help! Someone new, as I am, cannot learn too much.
Vicki

Hey, I am by no means an expert, I am still learning. As I said, it is a lot of trial and error and it's those errors that hopefully bring you later success. I was really afraid with the wind. We had some 4ft tall plastic fencing just sitting in the garage rolled up. It was the perfect size height and length to hold my orchids in place. I unrolled it, wrapped it around my carts and secured it with plastic zip locks. I had only one orchid that tipped but only a little, the fence kept it from falling over totally. I might just keep my carts wrapped as weather conditions change so quickly and this allows me easy access to my plants. We are all here to help each other, so don't be shy about asking questions.

[katrina]

I would also like to thank you for the input Synda. I've seen some of your catts and you obviously know what you're doing because they are beautiful.

Sooo...Vicki...disregard my water theory. The dehydration is most likely just from too much light. It's always a guessing game when we have problems. A process of elimination would probably be the best way to describe it.

Ahhhh...the challenge of growing these beauties...it's what keeps things interesting.

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by katrina

I would also like to thank you for the input Synda. I've seen some of your catts and you obviously know what you're doing because they are beautiful.


Ahhhh...the challenge of growing these beauties...it's what keeps things interesting.

Thanks Katrina, I only wish more were blooming now. I have a lot of new growth so hopefully I'll be seeing blooms later in the year. And now that I think of it, with all the new growth I should be putting a couple more of my catts now in bark to S/H. I have several that are still a year or two from blooming. Whenever I have made the switch, they seem to really take off. Thanks for reminding me.

[katrina]

Originally Posted by syndywindy

And now that I think of it, with all the new growth I should be putting a couple more of my catts now in bark to S/H. I have several that are still a year or two from blooming. Whenever I have made the switch, they seem to really take off. Thanks for reminding me.

Well...get to it girl! I'm sure they will bloom but I know...the waiting is hard.

[kmarch]

When I find something fungal on my orchids I usually treat it but i don't always quarantine it from the rest. But I dont' necessarily recommend that practice for others. It depends on your collection (some plants are more susceptible to fungal attacks) the conditions (good air circulation, nothing wet when it gets cold), and the fungus (some are more invasive than others).

[syndywindy]

Originally Posted by katrina

Well...get to it girl! I'm sure they will bloom but I know...the waiting is hard.

That right, make me work for those blooms. lol You really have to love these guys knowing they only bloom once a year and that's if you are lucky.