Virus Diagnosisi

[Kathleendmiller]

Where can I get a diagnosis of possible virus in 2 of my orchids? Where can I order my own diagnostic kits? Do they work?

[JLu]

Agdia in Elkhart, IN

ISK 13300 CymMV & ORSV Cymbidium mosaic virus and Odontoglossum ringspot virus ImmunoStrip

This strip tests for only for the two common orchid viruses listed, but that's usually sufficient and little else is reasonably possible anyway. They work extremely well.

Google "Agdia"

[Kathleendmiller]

photo attached
second problem orchid picture attached

[JLu]

I can barely see the little pic that you posted. That said, nothing in that looks like a virus. You need to be aware that viruses sometimes have foliage symptoms and sometimes not. Those that do can be easily confused with other problems so a visual diagnosis is not conclusive.

Some cases have flower symptoms which are generally easier to assign to a virus. Color breaks and necrotic spots (especially in white Cattleyas) are common signs. Most cases of viruses are not symptomatic at all except to reduce the vigor, growth potential, and performance of the plant, eventually killing it in some cases but not soon.

Your only choice for a definitive diagnosis are the strips above or a lab ERISA test which Agdia and other labs can perform.

[Kathleendmiller]

I'll attach a larger picture next time. I'm new at this digital picture stuff.
I'm crossing my fingers that this isn't a virus. The orchid looks very healthy and is getting ready to bloom.

[fred]

yeah a larger photo would be great
at a guess with that small photo looks like scale but please do post larger photos before thinking the worst

[Kathleendmiller]

ok. I'm attaching a larger picture. How do I treat scale?

[patticake]

I thought scale with the first picture, too. The second one shows the spots as indented instead of raised! It's probably not scale or a virus. Is this spreading rapidly? Just staying the same? It could be just caused by environmental problems such as water staying on the leaves in a cool area. I'm sure we'll get more on board in a day or two. Hang in there!

[Brooke]

It doesn't look like a virus or current pest problem but some trauma that occurred in the past.

If the damage is hard and dry I would ignore it. I only worry about discoloration if it is soft and increasing in size.

Welcome to the forum from a fellow Kentuckian.

Brooke

[fred]

I think this would be a good link to share about virus

http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Detecting_Virus.pdf

[kmarch]

Add my voice to the others that don't think you have a virus. This looks like a classic fungal infection to me.

[Kathleendmiller]

How do I test for fungal infection?

[orchidaddict789]

Ok, looking at the bottom picture...Sometimes orchids get spots right out of the blue, especially oncidium-types. One or two on a leaf won't really hurt the plant, though if the spots are spreading/increasing in number, then there might be a problem. I don't think you necessarily need to "test" for a fungal infection. You can spray with a fungicide just to be safe, though I really have a feeling that the spots won't be much of a problem. Oh, one tip, try not to keep leaves wet at night.

[Kathleendmiller]

What fungicide do you recommend? The leaves in the pictures are from 2 different plants. one of them is worse than the other.

[Ben G]

put some cinnimon on it.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Kathleendmiller

How do I test for fungal infection?

Well i dont know anyone wo tests for fungal infections. They just treat them. Any over-the-counter horticultural fungicide, used according to the manufacturer's instructions (or a little weaker) should do. the spots will never heal, but they should stop spreading.

[Kathleendmiller]

Alert everyone. The orchid with all of the spots did have a virus! I tested for it this morning. Now what do I do? I tested 2 others that didn't have virus. Do I test all 30 of my orchids?

[Irene]

Oh no!

I would separate it from the other plants and then wait for the experts to advise.

[katrina]

Unfortunately, viruses are a part of orchid growing. Some times they will show signs...sometimes they never do. I've often heard when dealing w/any of them...unless they've tested negative...to assume a plant has a virus and treat accordingly.

You have a couple of options here. There's no cure for a virus so you can either pitch the plant...or, keep it and then take the necessary precautions to not spread it to any other plants.

Personally, I wouldn't test the rest. Others may have a different opinion though. I do as stated above...even though they don't show symptoms...I assume possible virus on all my plants and I make sure not to do anything that could pass it along.

Now, if a plant looks bad...flowers are showing breaks...or anything else that causes the plant to look ugly or deformed...I pitch it.

This is just me...perhaps others may have a different opinion.

[JLu]

The spots in your pictures and the fact that your plant is virused are probably not related. As I and others have said, viruses are more often than not clear of visual symptoms and the spots you showed are not one that indicates virus. If you test all your plants, you will probably want top commit suicide. The best approach is treat all plants as virused and practice appropriate culture and tool cleanliness to avoid transmitting virus to clear plants. If you see symptoms like color breaks, throw the plant away because the blooms will never be right.

Unfortunately in this day of mericloning, viruses are the rule, not the exception.

[Kathleendmiller]

I threw it out immediately

[fred]

Originally Posted by Kathleendmiller

Alert everyone. The orchid with all of the spots did have a virus! I tested for it this morning. Now what do I do? I tested 2 others that didn't have virus. Do I test all 30 of my orchids?

Originally Posted by Kathleendmiller

I threw it out immediately

I have quoted both of these post because I think a more detailed explanation would be of help.

what test kit did you use ?

[Kathleendmiller]

Forsite Labs from Great Britain. I got them from John Wundt from Cumberland Orchids. He sold me his last kits. He isn't going to be a distributor any more. He said that the demand was too low. Too bad. They are very easy to use.

I thought that I might have a virus diseased orchid because I found some pictures of orchid with the Odontoglossum ring spot virus. My leaves looked exactly the same as the pictures.

[frostychic]

Sometimes things just happen for a reason...

I opened & read this thread a couple of days ago ... just to learn a thing or two.

Today, I had the good fortune to chat on the phone with a long time Phal breeder. I had a question or two about a transaction I was doing with them on the internet & decided to pick up the phone & call... during this very pleasant call, the subject of Box Stores & the orchids they sell and viruses.

The jest of what I got from the conversation was that most orchids you can buy at the box stores are virus infected... that the box stores have gotten them from the "stem lab" (did I say that right?) after the stem lab has tested them as positive with a virus and the breeder or grower doesn't want them back.

Does this sound right to you?

Anyway, the rest of what I learned today was that these orchids likely won't show any signs of virus... that they will continue to grow leaves & look healthy with the exception of... not producing blooms.

So I got to thinking about my Phals that I have to-date... all but one was a rescue from a box store... only 4 out of 7 or 8 of what I bought at the box store (Lowes) has re-bloomed. Actually, they have done exactly what this person said they'd do... produced a bloom spike but never produced a bud or if a bud did get produced it dried & fell off before maturing.

I did a little research on the internet & it seems that there is some discussion out there that some believe that these viruses can be spread just by touching one plant & then touching another... what are your thoughts on this?

So... I'm thinking I should test for a virus. If an orchid won't bloom & you can't eat it then I'm not in favor of giving it room in my small growing space.

It'll be sucha shame too cause one of my noid phals has got so many nice healthy leaves (8 leaves I think) and lots of healthy roots... but I haven't ever been able to get it to bloom since I bought it and that was summer of 2008. I've gotten a spike but it never produced blooms and as a matter of fact, that spike is still there... all green and alive but doing nothing else.

So... a question I have for anyone reading this is: Do these viruses span all types of orchids or do they tend to only attack Cattleya's or Phals or Dends etc?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Kathleendmiller

I thought that I might have a virus diseased orchid because I found some pictures of orchid with the Odontoglossum ring spot virus. My leaves looked exactly the same as the pictures.

Your leaves, at least the leaves in the pics you posted, don't look anything like ring spot virus. JLu is right. In your situation the symptoms you posted pics of have nothing to do with your plants being virused. As I said in an earlier post, the pics you posted are of fairly common fungal infections.

I'm quite surprised your phals are virused because orchid viruses in phals doesn't seem that common to me. Those who grow a lot fo phals might differ with that opinion and I defer to their experience as I have not grown all that many phals (and currently only have one).

I want to be clear about this and I'm restating the point not to chastise anyone, but because I don't want people looking at the pics in this thread, thinking that these are definite symptoms of viruses, and tossing plants that have nothing more than a serious but manageable fungal infection. The pics in this thread do not show the symptoms of orchid viruses. Here's a good article form the AOS on orchid viruses: AOS | Orchid Virus

[purplegirl]

How do the big box stores get the time so sort through everything and pick those sick ones out/ I'll agree, though, that this disappointing thing has happened to some of my Orchids, spikes but no flowers. My biggest difficulty with Lowe's/ Home Depot, etc. adoptees is that my growing space is MUCH drier than the greenhouse they came from.

[frostychic]

Originally Posted by purplegirl

How do the big box stores get the time so sort through everything and pick those sick ones out/ I'll agree, though, that this disappointing thing has happened to some of my Orchids, spikes but no flowers. My biggest difficulty with Lowe's/ Home Depot, etc. adoptees is that my growing space is MUCH drier than the greenhouse they came from.

First let me say that I'm a bit out of my league as I don't know what breeders and growers go thru when they have large numbers of plants... all I can do is assume some things and you know what happens when you assume.

My guess is that large numbers of plants go to the stem labs for testing and I'm guessing again that they test for viruses along with

If the plants test positive for a virus, from what I got from my recent conversation... the grower or breeder doesn't want them back in their production so as to not contaminate others in their houses etc.

These unwanted plants are left with the stem labs and the stem lab then sells them cheap-cheap-cheap to the box stores like Lowes etc.

THat is my very limited understanding and I could be off in my explanation... perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I will post something about this.

Interesting that your plants produce spikes but won't bud too purplegirl... I posted a thread about Phals that spike but won't bud in the Newbie Questions section...

[kmarch]

I'd be very surprised if any large seller of orchids did any kind of mass virus testing. For those who've had the good fortune of shopping at a place like Hauserman's or Oak Hill, can you imaging taking a tissue sample from every one of those thousands and thousands of plants, using some kind of code to make sure you know which tissue sample goes with which plant, and testing them all? I have been told by a couple of smaller nurseries/breeders that they test a plant before they clone or breed with it.

[Brooke]

Frostychic the labs do not test for virus. It is up to the supplier of the mericlone or stem prop to do the testing. The labs could care less.

A virus would not prevent a plant from blooming unless the plant is so virused it is on death's doorstep. One of the ways you find out a plant is virused by the color break virus on the bloom.

If you have healthy leaves and roots, it is usually lack of light preventing spikes. If you have buds which shrivel, turn yellow and fall off, it is usually a pest problem.

You pass a virus from plant to plant when you introduce the sap from an infected plant to the sap to a clean plant or from pests i.e. thrips, mealies, aphids, scale.

Brooke

[Kathleendmiller]

Well I'm confused about the ways of spotting virus. I believe all of you who are far more experienced than I am when you say that the spots didn't look like virus. And I did also see other symptoms on a leaf that matched a picture of a leaf with virus in one of my orchid books. However I saw 2 photos in orchid books that did look like the spots on the one leaf I showed in the photo and the books both said that these were signs of virus. Is there a difference of opinion in the orchid world or are some book authors not as expert as I believed?

[Brooke]

Katherine there is no way to confirm a virus in a plant visually except color break virus. You can get many different colorations in an orchid leaf that looks like a virus but when lab tested it is negative.

The only color break virus I've had had gorgeous clean green foliage. Another plant with virus had no foliage issue or color break but I didn't like the way it grew. It was positive for virus.

Treat all orchids as if virused and practice cleanliness in the grow area and during potting and keep your fingers crossed. Or you can spend a lot of money and have each plant tested.

Brooke

[fred]

I can remember some years ago a member of an orchid society entered a cymbidium in the show 'a two day show' the plant was taken out of the show and put aside after the show the plant was shown to all of us in the society
the cym had 4 flower spikes but when one looked at the plant one could see the leafs and secondly one could see the virus with blotches within the bloom as well
when looking at the chid we were all advised not to touch the chid
the plant was burnt

[Stitz]

http://www.aos.org/AM/Images/pdf/Detecting_Virus.pdf

Additional info on "home-testing" may be found in the link.

[Kathleendmiller]

Very helpful link. The picture of the leaf looks just like one of my leaves looked on the virused plant. I either saw that same picture or a similar one and that was one of the reasons I thought to do the diagnostic kit.