Brown spots on my Catt!

[frostychic]

Hiya!

I've been absent from this forum for a couple of months... I was away in Jamaica & was busy painting & taking care of my JA chids... (I'll share some photos later this week of my JA babes).

Anywhoooo... whilest I was away for approx. 45 days I asked someone else to care for my Indiana chids... needless to say that when I returned they almost all have issues. All the spikes that were spiking quit spiking... vanda roots dried up and while everything got stressed without my personal care, nothing died & I think that everything will still recover.

However, now that I've been home since Christmas... I've noticed a problem (immediately and I think it's getting worse) with ONE of my catts. It is a relatively new plant to me as I purchased it in late fall. It is potted in a 5" plastic pot with lava rocks and this is how it was delivered to me from the grower.

Some of the active roots on this catt also dried back while I was gone but there were also brown spots on the leaves... this is a large/mature catt so it seems that the brown spots are only on the largest leaves. The spots started out (if I am recalling correctly) along the edges of the leaves and I think it was just one or two leaves.

Now the spots are also going down the middle of the leaf & I think I have 3 or 4 afflicted leaves.

Can anyone tell me what could be going on & if/how I can correct the problem

My other (2) catts are not showing these same signs... neither of the other two are in lava rocks... and all three were cared for by the same person while I was away.

Is this a hyrdation issue... a fungus issue... a mite issue... or some other issue???

Here are some pics.

Spanks in advance

[frostychic]

Do you think the information contained in this thread: Strange Leaf Discoloration on Cattleya Chocolate Drop would be of value to my situation?

I went to re-inspect the plant... the brown spots are sunken but there is no residue on the underside of the leaf. Also, for the most part the brown sunken spots don't appear on the underside of the leaf except for where it is around the edges of the leaf.

I also have in my hand a small leaf (one of the older leafs from this plant when it was younger) that the bulb is totally mushy/brown & wet... the leaf fell off the bulb when I touched it and the leaf itself is black from where it was attached to the bulb and it is black from that point to about one inch up the leaf... there are no brown spots on this leaf other than what I just indicated with the entire 1/3 of the leaf being black where it fell from the bulb.

What other detective info can I provide?

Do I have more than one problem going on here?

Should I remove this catt from it's pot & inspect it's roots?

Hoping to save this guy... anxiously awaiting your advice

[Dendian]

Yikes - Brown, mushy and wet = bacterial/fungal rot - unpot immediately and cut to remove as far as you can see any black in the rhozome. Cut - steralize cutting implement with physan 20 or bleach or heat and cut again until you don't see any black beyond the cut, then put cinnamon on the cut. I lost two Catts to this stuff, and have had about 4 more recover after chopping the plant up into tiny pieces to get beyond the rot. Watch the remainder very carefully and, if you come across any more mushy stuff get rid of it too.

The black spots on the leaves - if they are traveling - will also need to be removed. Any discoloration that travels is a bad thing.

[11Orchid126]

Take a marker and circle the damage in order to see if it's traveling beyond the mark. If it isn't, it may be mechanical. Hard to tell.

[frostychic]

Thanks... I'll get prepared & take a look at the roots this weekend.

I'm thinking I'd like this chid in a basket anyways... hopefully I don't have to many dead roots back.

Do you think I have more than one problem going on at the same time

[kmarch]

This looks like either:
1) fungal spotting - nothing too serious though it is best ot treat them with a good fungicide and increase the airflow in your growing to prevent spreading.
2) mite damage/fungal spotting - mites are small sucking insects which bite tiny holes in the leaf to feed. The holes then become home to fungus. Treat with a good insecticide and a good fungicide both and increase the airflow in your growing area.

[frostychic]

This orchid sits the closest to the floor of all my chids... so it remains cooler there & I think this is part of my problem too.

I have already changed it's location & hope to get it treated & check out those roots Tuesday or Wed. Would have done it already (I've got the fungicide & insecticide) but I really want to put it into a different pot or a wood basket when I remove it from this one & honestly, I'm not prepared for all that just this moment

[frostychic]

Here are recent photos taken about 4 days after treatment with Bayer 3-in-1

I also bought some fungicide but know not to treat with both chemicals at the same time.

I have not yet repotted and wondering if you think it is really necessary to do so?

Each photo below is of a different leaf... same plant. I lost 2 leafs and their pb's and then I have these sick ones below plus about another 8 or so that look normal.

I'm still watching but since treatment with the Bayer (I was so busy with family and other commitments that I just couldn't get to treating it as soon as I should have back when I first posted this thread and the damage worsened to prove it)... I don't think it's gotten any worse since the Bayer application

[mehitabel]

The question is how quickly is this black/brown rot moving? You mentioned a couple of pseudobulbs were already gone.

Fungus infections are slow moving. Bayers 3 N 1 contains a fungicide, and should help if in fact it's a fungal infection.

If it's fast-moving, it's a bacterial rot, and the 3 N 1 won't really help. Bactericides are much harder to find. See the url below for an article on pseudomonas cattleyae, a bacterial rot. Erwinia is another deadly bacterial rot.

http://www.doacs.state.fl.us/pi/enpp...circ/pp330.pdf

Bacterial rots are hard to treat because they move so fast and bactericides aren't easily available. The plant can be seriously compromised or essentially dead in a few days.

The best treatment for all kinds of bacterial and/or fungal rots is *prevention*.
The bacteria and fungi that cause them are opportunistic. That is, they are always present, often water-borne, and ready to explode into a serious probelm the minute conditions are favorable. Prevention includes increasing light and air movement, and preventing water splashing.

[NancyH]

Hi, nobody has mentioned a virus. If it is a virus you will have to destroy the plant immediatly! Do you have a local Agricultural College nearby? They could test it for you to see what it is. If not, you could google a possible testing lab and send it to them. I would isolate it from my other plants NOW! It is already so compromised that re-potting it and trimming off any rotten growth would not shock it that much more. It can only help, then you would have to wait and see. Good luck. I know what it is like to dispose of a really nice size plant. But for the good of your other plants you may have to.
Nancy

[plucker]

I think it is unlikely that it is a virus.
I would lean towards fungus or bacteria. Judging by the post dates it is more likely fungus.
Sounds like you might lose a few leaves, but that can be normal for catts.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by NancyH

Hi, nobody has mentioned a virus.

I didn't mention a virus because these are not the symptoms of virus. It looks like it might be a combination of leaf tip burn (possible form over fertilizing) and either a fungl or bacterial attack (possibly but not probably, both). I' inclined to agree with plucker that's it fungal. If it were bacterial it wouldn't' be spots, it would be a larger solid area and the leaf would be turning to black mush literally by the hour.

As the leaf is pretty far gone, I'd take it off and give it a good spray with a fungicide. Also increase the air flow around the plant.

[frostychic]

Thanks everyone on your thoughts on how to correct this.

I moved this catt to a different location as soon as I realized what damage was happening back in January & I honestly think that was that "opportunity" mentioned earlier. This catt had been on the lower shelf of a stand, it was the closest to the floor of any of my orchids and it tended to get less light and the temps stayed a little cooler.

So I have moved it up by my other two catts and continued with air circulation.

I don't think it was fertilizer burn because they didn't get fertilized for 45 days while I was gone & when I fertilize I do so "weakly-weekly".

I'm hopeful to give this orchid a complete going-over on Saturday morning.

Thanks again... I hope I didn't wait too long.

[kmarch]

I think you're on the right track frostychic. Now knowing your fertilizing regimen, I'd agree that fert burn is probably not a factor. You did mention that it was getting cooler temps where it was on the lower shelf. I'd venture a guess it was also not getting as much air movement there. Less light, cooler temp, less air, all of these are fungus "enablers". I don't know what the rest of the plant looks like but these sorts fo things are, in my experience, usually not fatal to a plant. Consider giveing it a good all-over spray with a good fungicide. That and the other things you mentioned, putting it up with your other catts, etc. I think it will probably do fine.