MEALY BUGS has invaded my orchid family!!!

[orchidlover55]

Originally Posted by mehitabel

No, Safer's will kill flowers. They shrivel and brown up within a couple of days. It's okay on closed buds, tho. I've sprayed closed buds on catts as well as phals and had no effect whatever.

Insecticidal Soap

I just read this thread after the fact I went in the orchid room to water my orchids and when I started watering I noticed the worst case of mealy bugs.
I have no idea where they came from I haven't bought a orchid in a long time. I could have sworn I could use Safers on my orchid and it wouldn't hurt it.
I stayed in the orchid room six hours swabbing with a Q-tip the flowers ,leaves and spraying everywhere. My face is burned from all the insecticide. They were taking over.
After I did all this I logged on and seen this thread. I feel like I have some beautiful blooms and I swabbed all of them
Please help give me some suggestions on what to do, I am so sick at my stomach. I have worked so hard with my orchids.

[digitalgate]

try confidor it has a systemic active ingredient.

[orchidlover55]

Where can I get this from? Can I get it from Home Depot or Lowes? Thank you digitalgate

[sunshine]

So sorry to hear you have mealy bugs and that is a good Where do those little buggers come from if their not brought in on another plant

Don't forget to check those little clip thingies. I have found them hiding in there too. I use Concern. Active ingedient is pyrethrin,an extract derived from the African chrysanthemum. It didn't hurt my flowers. I got mine at Agway. They sell grain, garden supplies etc. Some of the bigger ones even have a nice garden center. Another you might want to look into is Sevin and you can find that in any Lowes, HD or Walmart. I have never used it on my chids. Just on my lilies and roses and it never hurt the plants or the flowers.

When using any type of chemical to kill these nasty little buggers make sure you have good ventilation.

[mehitabel]

Hey, orchidlover. First, take a deep breath. Mealies happen. You don't have to stress out or feel guilty or ashamed over them, just kill them If you have a lot of plants, you're going to have some from time to time.

Where do they come from? They're like Mary Poppins, sometimes the wind changes and there they are. The best preventive is to just observe your plants closely on a regular basis. "Pick the pot up once a month" is what some orchidists recommend. That way you find them when there's just one or two, and before there's a huge outbreak with some plants overwhelmed by them, and lots of plants infested.

Once you have them, you can get rid of them. As I said, Safer's Insecticidal will harm flowers *if the flowers are sprayed*, but not buds or the plant. If you spray or drench the plant but not the flowers, the flowers are not harmed.

Truthfully, even those soap and alcohol sprays that some people here recommend will harm flowers . Flowers are delicate and can't take much messing and that's that. But you can cover the flowers with a paper towel or bag and spray the plants. Or you can drench the pot, just pour thru the pot.

You will get rid of the infestation faster if you use a systemic. This is a pesticide that is absorbed by the plant, the plant itself then becomes toxic to pests for a period of time and when they feed on it, they die. Safer's Insecticidal is a contact killer, not a systemic. ie only kills what it touches.

If you don't use a systemic, you're in for a longer battle because they hide in the flower stems, in every crevice, where leaf attaches to stem, sometimes in the medium and on the roots, etc etc etc. Read the label-- if it promises to protect the plant for a period of time, say 30 days or so, it offers systemic protection. Safer's 3 N 1 and Bayers 3 N 1 offer protection for 30 days.

So if you have a major outbreak, use a systemic. Again, with a major outbreak, sometimes they have worked their way down into the pot and on the roots and medium, so you may want to drench the pot. You can do this instead of spray, I believe.

Here's a thread where Kevin outlines the what to do for a really huge outbreak of scale. The same thing he recommends is what works for mealies.

Sappy bulbous spots on leaves and especially stems

[-k-]

Ahhh... Oh nooooo....
Success is possible in ridding your plants of these vile little critters...
I did use safers and drenched the medium as well as swabb the little nokes and crannies, sometimes peeling back parts of the plant to get to those little blood suckers..
Drenching the medium seem to do the trick...
I also (out of pure luck) enlisted the help of some ladybugs that had made there way into our home... they scowered the plant over and over, was actually cool to watch. I still have a hand full flying around!

I really hope your blooms will be ok, but losing them maybe a small price to pay to clean the plant... I did lose two blooms

Good luck, keep us posted...

[digitalgate]

most nursery have good systemic pesticides. You might want to try. Bayer have lots of systemic pesticides.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by -K-

...Drenching the medium seem to do the trick...

I had a recurring scale problem on a spider plant I keep for my cats. Those long spikes with the spider balls on them kept being covered with scale. I would cut them off, spray the plant, etc, etc, but they always came back. This went on for several years, til finally I took it outside and poured pesticide all over it. They never reappeared after that, the plant has been scale free for more than two years now.

Another reason for using a systemic (can also be used as a drench) is that on oncidia and other orchids that have a long spike with lots of close-packed nodes on it, mealies or scale always hide successfully long enough to take over, and they are very hard to see and hence get rid of on those particular stems with a contact product.

[-k-]

Originally Posted by mehitabel

I had a recurring scale problem on a spider plant I keep for my cats. .

I also keep a spider plant for my cat, he sleeps under it everyday, it can be seen in my user ID pic... It's gigantic at this point since I've only repotted two offsprings... eep...

[mayres]

Originally Posted by -K-

I also keep a spider plant for my cat, he sleeps under it everyday, it can be seen in my user ID pic... It's gigantic at this point since I've only repotted two offsprings... eep...

We used to have a giant spider plant as well, but our oldest cat has now chewed it down and keeps it "mowed" to a putting green surface! He doesn't even play golf!

Back to the topic - mehitabel brings up what I believe to be a crucial step in the process once you've had mealies - routine inspection. If you have a large number of plants it is VERY difficult to 100% erradicate every single one. Just when you think you've got a clean/clear collection another one pops up here or there. If you don't do anything but a quick water in place for a number of weeks/months you may eventually find yourself with a few plants loaded with critters - hiding under leaves and in crevices where you don't readily see them. What is just 1-2 white irritations squashed between your fingers during the week will begin to dehydrate your plant and suck its life out in a month or two if left unimpeded.

[maninair]

Spray neem oil mixed with soap and water every week. After two three spraying the mealy bugs will disappear. I have applied it on my hibiscus plants with good result. The ants are the culprit. They transfer the egg from one plant to another and in exchange they get a sweet substance from mealy bugs. To remove ants sprinkle some salts every alternate day.

Wish you all the best.

Mani.

[koshki]

How can you tell if a product is systemic? I have both Safer Insect Killing and their BioNEEM Insecticide and Repellent on hand. Both instructions say to spray them on the foliage, which suggests to me they're topical rather than systemic. But I know plants can absorb stuff through the leaves, so I'm not sure.

If neither of these are systemic, what recommendations do you have? I've got mealies (urgh when I discovered that egg-laying spaceship!). And now I think one of my aerangis' has scale.

Also, would it be a good idea to routinely treat plants with a systemic? Or perhaps when you get new ones?

[orchidlover55]

Originally Posted by maninair

Spray neem oil mixed with soap and water every week. After two three spraying the mealy bugs will disappear. I have applied it on my hibiscus plants with good result. The ants are the culprit. They transfer the egg from one plant to another and in exchange they get a sweet substance from mealy bugs. To remove ants sprinkle some salts every alternate day.

Wish you all the best.

Mani.

maninair, I have never bought neem oil where can I buy this? I have heard geeks talking about it but I didn't know where to get it. I would like to try it.

Originally Posted by mehitabel

You will get rid of the infestation faster if you use a systemic. This is a pesticide that is absorbed by the plant, the plant itself then becomes toxic to pests for a period of time and when they feed on it, they die. Safer's Insecticidal is a contact killer, not a systemic. ie only kills what it touches.

Sappy bulbous spots on leaves and especially stems

Mehitabel, if these were your orchids, what would you use? I will go get it. I used soap in the bucket I watered my orchids with. I used Dawn soap. I am watching them very carefully and getting any bugs I see. I don't see any since I picked every one of them buggers off I seen yesterday, but I know there is no way I got all of them off 129 orchids LOL.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

Mehitabel, if these were your orchids, what would you use? I will go get it. I used soap in the bucket I watered my orchids with. I used Dawn soap. I am watching them very carefully and getting any bugs I see. I don't see any since I picked every one of them buggers off I seen yesterday, but I know there is no way I got all of them off 129 orchids LOL.

Yeah, 129 orchids, you need the big guns. Soap is good, it gets rid of a lot of them (and the plants don't look so ugly

Use a systemic and be sure to drench the pots. There are almost sure to be little buggers down in the mix for at least some of them. Safer's or Bayer's 3 N 1 is a systemic, I'm almost sure. I wouldn't have made that up-- must have gotten it from the label. Read the label. I think it says you get 30 days of protection. That's a systemic. I've been using the 3 N 1 and been happy with it. I don't get re-occurrences with it.

Use that first, then if you get a second big outbreak, use something stronger. But I really think that will handle it. Say you had 50,000 of them. After your spraying and drenching, you have 1000 left. Watch with an eagle eye, the first time you see one more, drench again. Say when you saw them again, there were 10,000. After the 2nd spraying and drench you are down to 200. Third time, they are almost sure to disappear.

However, with a systemic, the 1000 left start munching again, then they die, too, and with luck you don't see them again, even if they are hiding in some tight little place like the node on a flower stem (Yes, I've seen them in there)

You can drench without spraying. This reduces the amount of stuff in the air and actually delivers a better punch than spraying because you make sure you get any that are hiding in your pot (Yes, I've seen them there, too). You can pour it all over the plant and thru the pot. Wear rubber gloves while you're doing all this.

While the leaves are wet with the stuff, keep your lights off. Leaves can burn if sun or bright lights hit the wet leaves.

If I got all those @#$% scale off my spider plant with a drench and never saw them again after two or three years of them coming back after a zillion sprayings-- crusted all along on every single one of the stalks, and hiding in every crack...

If a drench did them, your mealies don't have a chance. Your babies will be fine Don't fret You're just scared because this is your first time. Next time you'll be ready for them! !!! LOL

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by koshki

How can you tell if a product is systemic? I have both Safer Insect Killing and their BioNEEM Insecticide and Repellent on hand. Both instructions say to spray them on the foliage, which suggests to me they're topical rather than systemic. But I know plants can absorb stuff through the leaves, so I'm not sure.

If neither of these are systemic, what recommendations do you have? I've got mealies (urgh when I discovered that egg-laying spaceship!). And now I think one of my aerangis' has scale.

Also, would it be a good idea to routinely treat plants with a systemic? Or perhaps when you get new ones?

Is it systemic? Read the label. For a systemic, the label will tell you that the "protection lasts for X time". Used as a spray doesn't mean it's not systemic-- that's a way of getting it onto or into the plant as the case may be.

The drench just is a different way of delivering the killer so that you get what's in the pot. And sometimes they are in the pot. I've seen them in one of MY pots. UGH and DOUBLE UGH.

No, I don't think it's a good idea to use any pesticide routinely. When you do that, the pests begin to develop immunity, and you end up with Super-mealie, unkillable by any pesticide known to man.

The best preventive is to look them over often. Just spend a quiet hour once a month or so looking each one over. Or do it when you water them. Or when you are standing there admiring them. I do it all of the above. Lift up the leaves and look under, look into and on the backs of the flowers. "Pick up the pot". This gets it to reading distance so you can really *see*.

Also, if you have mealies or scale in the flowers, you will get sticky spatter on the leaves. Whenever you see the sticky spatter (a spot fine shiny mist somewhere on the top of the leaves), you have scale or mealies somewhere. You have to find them. And while you're looking, you'll learn an awful lot about the little buggers habits.

[orchidlover55]

Thank you so much Mehitabel, I will do this and try to get rid of them. I spend hours with a Q-Tip looking each orchid over like it was entering a prison " a strip search" LOL I watch too much T.V. LOL Anyway a lot of them were covered with these little devils. I went back into the orchidroom today and I seen a few more and I took them off with alcohol. I will give them your recipe and I may even use neem oil to wipe the leaves that may make them pretty "HMMM"
You are my wonderful friends geeks

[orchidlover55]

Well I sprayed all my orchids real good with Safers 3-in-1 . I have found a few more mealy bugs since then but I feel like if I stay on my toes I can get control of them. I already seen a few of the phal flowers wilting but that is ok.
I was so disappointed, I have worked so hard to get the flowers I have and I didn't want to loose them.
Thank you all so much for the help you gave to me.

[-k-]

I know how disappointing it is to lose blooms or any crop for that matter, was a rough summer this past year, lost many of my crops its heartbreaking ...stay vigilant and I'm certain you will get it under control...

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

... I feel like if I stay on my toes I can get control of them. I already seen a few of the phal flowers wilting but that is ok. I was so disappointed, I have worked so hard to get the flowers I have and I didn't want to loose them.

Absolutely. Really, the secret to not having a severe infestation is to catch them when there are only one or two. Once you blink, they're a thousand. You get better and better at spotting them before they get hold, and also better and better at knowing where to look for them But like Mike said, if you have enough orchids, they're *there* waiting to take over if they get a chance.

Yes, it's always a disappointment to lose the flowers. Especially when it's all or most of them. As you said, you work hard all year for them. But your flowers in '10 will be a lot easier to come by because you know so much more now, and you're plants are bigger. And don't forget, there's a lot of spring/early summer bloomers that will be setting spikes within the next 6 weeks or so. Hope you have a lot of them

[orchidlover55]

Mehitabel, have you ever heard of someone that has the same amount as I do loose all of them from mealy bugs? I have already seen some of my blooms wilting from treating them the other day. I have a lot of buds though I hope they come out ok. I put too much soap in the water the other day too. I was so upset, my hubby was trying to calm me down and I couldn't. I hope I didn't do anything to them when I put the dishwashing liquid in the water. I watered some of them again today and when I did I had a lot of bubbles

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

I watered some of them again today and when I did I had a lot of bubbles

That's happened to me from time to time when I poured physan thru the pot. It's like the pot saying "Now look what you did".

You can probably use too much soap, but the major problem from soap is that it is a wetting agent -- ie makes water "wetter", so your medium will stay wet longer. You can't water on your old schedule, you have to really be more careful watering, maybe wait an extra day to make sure they are dry before watering.

It will take a couple of waterings to get the soap out. Til you do, I would try to get them to the sink for watering and run a lot of water thru, not just pour a little over. Running lots of water thru when you do water will help get rid of the soap faster.

Are they harmed? Just too early to tell. Probably not is what I would say. Might take them a month or so to start "lookin' good" again. I know you're watching them like a hawk, so you'll start to notice right away when they start to perk up a little. If they're harmed a little, you'll just nurse them back. You're good at that, and patient.

Don't forget, easy on the fertilizer til they perk up.

I've never heard of anyone who lost all their plants to something, and I would be very surprised to. My worst fear would be to lose some of my favorites, but all of them? No. The reason for this is simply that some are going to be tougher than others-- nature provides for this so some will always come thru to be the next generation, the remnant. Just like some soldiers actually survived the Japanese death camps in WWII. You won't lose them all.

We've all been thru this-- in my days when I grew fragrant tropicals, I had a big gorgeous rice plant. I was thrilled to find a plant that big. It was about 2' x 2' in a 16" pot. Usually all you can buy is in a tiny 4" pot. I loved it. But it was too big to pick up, so I never got to really look it over in strong light inside. I was taking it onto the deck in Spring, holding it against my hip. First time I'd really seen the plant up close in sunlight. One third of the plant was totally covered with scale. I was so shocked and horrified I dropped the pot. Naturally they were tan colored, the exact color of the bark, and I couldn't see them until we were out in full daylight. That's when I decided I had to give the big plants up -- I need to grow something I can pick up with one hand and bring into reading distance.

You've done what you can. They have to take over now. Try to think of it as one of the things that has to happen on your way to being a sophisticated "old orchid hand"

[orchidlover55]

Mani I would like to get some neem oil, can you tell me where to get it? Or if Mani doesn't see this can someone tell me where to get it?

I am still every day two to three times a day going into the greenroom and inspecting my orchids and getting mealy bugs off of my orchids. I had a severe case I think and now I only have a few here and there. They were under the leaves, on the stems, on the back of the flower, in the lip of the flower, on the petals, inside the clip that is clipped on the stem. OH MY GOSH!!! this has been devastating to me. I had my surgery and I didn't tend to them like I was suppose to for six weeks and now I am paying for it The worst part of this whole thing was not having to rid the bugs it is worrying about loosing my precious chids. I love my sweet little chids very much. Everyday I am thinking the bugs are gone but then I find another one or two. Please put me on your chid prayer list.

[PhalPal]

Debra I'm so sorry this is happening to you!!!! I had a little infestation of scale on a few catts after my surgery too but I was able to get rid of it rather quickly so don't fret.

I use a little different approach than a lot of members mentioned above. If I find some scale or bugs I don't like, I drench the plant with Bayer 3 in 1. ALL of it! I don't worry about losing a few flowers at this point. If it is really bad, I'll repot to make sure there is nobody hiding in the media. (there is, trust me) Soaking the pot/media in an anti-bug solution will work, too. I guess I prefer to rtepot because it gives me the opportunity to give my orchid a good bath

I strongly believe in picking up your pots and inspecting at least once a month. What I do for prevention is this: I lovelovelove Pharmsolutions cinnamon flavor. It is considered 'all natural' and is safe around my cats and my asthma. I spray all my indoor orchids with it about once a month when I'm inspecting. It shines up the leaves real nice too, an added bonus! I also give any new orchids a good spray with this stuff. I'll drench all the nooks and crannies and I rarely have any bugs in my collection.

I have only seen Neem Oil at orchid shows and online.
Bayer 3:1 can be found everywhere, garden centers, Target, Home Depot. Pharmsolutions can be found at some higher end garden centers, but the cheapest way is online at Pharm Solutions Inc. :: Home.

I think you have some really good advice above; let us know how it turns out!

[NancyG]

I use Bayer's 3 in 1. You can get it at Home Depot or Lowes. I works quickly.

[rcb]

Debra, if you want to use neem, Home Depot and Lowes carry it.

[kmarch]

I never worry about mealies. That's not to say I don't eradicate them when I see them. I do. But mealies are, in my experience, one of the easier pests to get rid of. I use any brand of insecticidal soap. A few applications with a few days in between according to directions and they're usually gone. I don't use systemics on mealies, I find it really not necessary because they're soft bodied and susceptible to a lot of topical treatments. I save the systemics for things like thrips and scale.

[orchidlover55]

Thank you Geeks I appreciate your advice. I am headed to Home Depot tomorrow. If I could get there before they closed I would go tonight LOL

[Brooke]

Kevin I can tell you don't have many Phals

Brooke

[maninair]

Is there any stores selling Indian Ayurvedic Medicine in your area. Neem oil is an Ayurvedic Medicine which cures most of the illness. Or you can try any stores selling Indian products. There is a web site - neemfoundation.org, you may contact them and ask for guidance. They are experts on neem based products.

Wish you all the best.

Mani.

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

Mani I would like to get some neem oil, can you tell me where to get it? Or if Mani doesn't see this can someone tell me where to get it?

I am still every day two to three times a day going into the greenroom and inspecting my orchids and getting mealy bugs off of my orchids. I had a severe case I think and now I only have a few here and there. They were under the leaves, on the stems, on the back of the flower, in the lip of the flower, on the petals, inside the clip that is clipped on the stem. OH MY GOSH!!! this has been devastating to me. I had my surgery and I didn't tend to them like I was suppose to for six weeks and now I am paying for it The worst part of this whole thing was not having to rid the bugs it is worrying about loosing my precious chids. I love my sweet little chids very much. Everyday I am thinking the bugs are gone but then I find another one or two. Please put me on your chid prayer list.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Kevin I can tell you don't have many Phals

You're right Brooke I dont' have many phals. In fact I have only one at present, but I do have about 400 paphs and I do find mealies down in the leaf crotches from time to time. As soon as I find one, it and the neighboring plants get thoroughly searched, thoroughly sprayed with insecticidal soap (repeat as necessary) and re-inspected until they are bug free for about 2 weeks. I don't want to say this and jinx myself but I haven't had a mealy in about.....no I can't say. I don't want to ruin my mealy-free winning streak...

[Brooke]

No Kevin don't jinx yourself and I don't want to jinx myself but I've never had a mealie on anything but a phal.

For a mealie to get into the g/h they have to come in through the vent wall, travel past the nice tender foliage of the masdies and lycaste, jump across an aisle, go past the paphs and jump another aisle to get to the phals. Thank goodness for Bayer

Brooke

[greenleaf]

I once bought a phal with mealy bugs hiding in every nook and cranny. I know I shouldn't have bought it but I did. Dabbing with rubbing alcohol didn't work so I had to spray it.

[lmartiny]

I've picked up some rescues that I found have mealies. I'm spraying away with Bayer's and occasionally squishing as I go. I need to mix up some 3 in 1 and hit them with that. They are being kept separate. Hitting my pony tail palm as well and I hanged the mealie mount out on a tree. I bought some Neem oil last year (Home Depot or Lowes) then read some negative things about it in regard to use on orchids so I didn't use it.

[articuno75]

I had mealies on a Catt that was given to me. It had a bit of scale too. I used Brookn's recipe and have vanquished the little beasts. Now I'm battling the scale that my Cyms got from being outdoors over the summer. I don't want to spray them with the 3-in-one just yet, but I do have to be a little more aggressive in which I've become a little lax here lately.

[Brooke]

Please don't spray a pesticide in an enclosed environment. You can pour the mixture on the leaves and drench the media with the insecticide.

The Bayer insecticide with imacloprid is a systemic and works better when used in the media. If the Bayer product also has beta-cyflurin, another insecticide, it is a contact. Both together are much better eliminating the beasts than just imacloprid.

One or two applications a week apart eliminate even the most stubborn pests.

Brooke

[Sandrilene]

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

Mani I would like to get some neem oil, can you tell me where to get it? Or if Mani doesn't see this can someone tell me where to get it?

I saw it the other day at Home Depo.

[Malula]

Hi, I am also sort of new to the orchid business. In a thread that I began about a Phal with MealyBugs and stem rot, I was sent an article that says to mix rubbing alcohol with dish soap and water and spray over the affected area (specifically this recipe is to kill mealy bugs). Now that we're on the Mealy Bug discussion, I have other (non-orchid) plants in my house affected with mealy bugs and I would like to know if it is safe to spray this mixture on them. Thank you!

[mehitabel]

I think it would be safe for other houseplants, Malula.

[mehitabel]

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

now I only have a few here and there. They were under the leaves, on the stems, on the back of the flower, in the lip of the flower, on the petals, inside the clip that is clipped on the stem.

That's the worst part of the nasty little things-- they have so many places to hids and start little mealie factories to chug out thousands of new mealies. Some of the places are hard to get at with contact pesticides, too.

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

The worst part of this whole thing was not having to rid the bugs it is worrying about loosing my precious chids. ...

The fact that you've brought a total infestation (thousands) of the nasty little things down to one or two is a sign you and your plants are winning this one. You aren't going to lose your orchids from a few mealies. Just concentrate on the growing and try to enjoy hunting down and finding the few that are left.

I also agree with the poster who mentioned drenching the whole pot. Sometimes that's the only thing that will do, as they've gotten in the medium.

Originally Posted by orchidlover55

Everyday I am thinking the bugs are gone but then I find another one or two. Please put me on your chid prayer list.

You're doing fine. As Mike said, if you have a lot of orchids indoors, you're almost certain to have one or two from time to time. Just keep at them and be glad they aren't bedbugs