Den with possible bacterial issues?

[vcuchick]

I have a Den N. Yellow Song ‘Canary’ that has been showing some possible signs of deterioration over the last month or so- All of my plants were repotted in S/H on 06/14/2009 and the plant really perked up- nice shiny new leaves on my new canes growths from last year and just some great overall vigor.

However, I have noticed in the last week or two, the plant has begun to have leaves (even on good, healthy canes) turn yellow/green with molting. The leaves don’t drop off, just turn yellowish green from the tips or sides of the leaves then just hang there. I don’t believe this is part of the natural deciduous life cycle of the plant.

On Saturday, 07/18, I did come and treat all of my plants with ‘Rise & Shine’ leaf treatment and also I used a very diluted solution of orchid fertilizer in a mister and sprayed the leaves.

My Den is the only one now showing possible issues- I think I may have cause a bacterial issue or something similar with my plant by spraying it? Or maybe I’m just loosing it and this is just natural steps in my orchid... but my gut doesn’t think so.

I would great appreciate the “experts” on here to take a look at these pictures I took this morning and tell me what you think might be going on and what I need to do to bring my plant around before the winter as it blooms in Feb and March and I want to give it a few months of good healthy growing before the colder months set in.

(My plants sit in a eastern window potted in S/H with a small fan 24/7. I use distilled water when I water them and usually do a complete flush about every 2-3 days)

The first picture is the plant back during the Feb/March blooming, 2nd picture was before I repotted in S/H, 3rd picture is after S/H, and all others were taken this morning.

[Ray]

I'm no den expert, but in my VERY limited experience, they can lose leaves after any minor shock, including repotting.

However, I think a more likely scenario might be:

When first put into S/H, it absorbed the added moisture and perked up (especially if it was kept dry before that). Now that it has been in there for a month, the old roots are starting to succumb, but the new roots have not grown sufficiently to fully support the plant.

Rise & Shine is a leaf cleaner that has insecticidal properties; it will do nothing for bacterial or fungal infections, if that was the case. Also, foliar feeding is (debatably) of no value in orchids, and applying mineral salts to otherwise stressed leaves would seem likely to accelerate their demise.

(Psst. Psst. No photos.)

[fred]

bump
Jay do you have any insight as to what the problem maybe or any other geeks
thanks

[PhalPal]

Watching with interest.......

FYI - when foliar feeding make sure to cover the undersides of the leaves. This is where the plant is most likely to absorb the nutrients.

[mayres]

Don't mean to stray from the intent of this thread, but a significant grower of paphs in the NW reportedly ONLY foliar feeds?! Hmmmm. I would think when foliar feeding an entire greenhouse a percentage of this "feeding" is bound to drip down into the media?! Hmmmm.

[vcuchick]

no idea, I want to say I had heard mixed reviews about misting with fertilizer so I figured I'd give it a shot- not something I'm going to be doing again, obviously...my non-orchid plants are loving it though!

But I'm just concerned with the molting of the leaves and such...any suggestions?

[orchidlover55]

I had a few dens that did the same thing and looked just like yours. I wasn't watering mine enough and they were not getting enough light before I got my G/H. That doesn't seem to be your case if you have them in a window. It looks like to me they are totally in disagreement about the S/H. I hope I am wrong because of all the trouble of repotting. But are they getting a different amount of water than before? I don't think you have a bacteria infection I have had that on one I purchased one time and it looks different than yours. But before I lost it I would put it back like it was . They are so particular aren't they? They maybe just adjusting ...I hope everything works out for you

[syndywindy]

I have one den that I moved to S/H about 2 months ago and it is just growing like crazy.Its also been outside for the last month, a couple hours of early morning sun and then filtered light the rest of the day. I am watering it nearly every day and if not, every other day, flushing it each time. Weak fert once every 2 weeks.I've never tried misting with fert. When I bought it, it had one old cane and two others that gave me so many blooms, now there are 7 new growths. I did have a couple leaves get a little spotty, turn yellow and fall off, but other than that, its been fine. Is putting it outside an option for you? I believe dens are thirsty little buggers and need the extra watering.

[mehitabel]

I don't grow dends, but bacterial issues? Those I have had my share of.

Bacterial issues will give you brown goopy stuff that is a speck one day and a mass of rotten leaves and pbs two days later. Like old lettuce kept in a plastic bag too long.

[vcuchick]

ICK. ok, that's not the problem..must be a watering thing...i'll keep my eye on it and a little TLC and see how it does.

[elitebettas]

Hmm, I've had the same problem with a few dens and vandas. I believe the problem is excessive watering on the leaves which is leading to fungus-those black areas could be cell collapse because the water you mist with is much lower than the leaf temperature

[vcuchick]

Thanks Elitebettas! I'm thinking that may be what has happened...I'll lay off the misting and give it more sun and see what happens over the next week or so.

Now of course, we're supposed to have rain now for a few days. goodie. Cloudy days. Perfect for growing orchids in an office environment. NOT. hahaha

[jerrymeola]

Your Yellow Song looks exceptionally good for this time of year.

This is a Yamamoto Nobile type and one of the ones whose leaves look the worst over the summer to early winter.

I have had hundreds of yellow song over the last two years and usually they look much worst.

Fortunately they are one of the ones that produces the most flowers. A plant your size can easily produce over 100 flowers this winter.

But stop the fertilizer. Neither on the medium nor on the leaves (leaf fertilizer is find under other circumstances). Continued use of nitrogen will prevent the development of flowers.

This plant also should not have water withheld during the winter. A heavy watering once a week is the best here in Florida. If it does not dry fast then maybe 10 days. This plant dehydrates and canes shrivel if water is withheld.

These plants want to be chilled below 50 degrees to set buds and for those who do not know it they can survive temps down to zero.

[vcuchick]

So I think I'm killing all my orchids- now two of my large NOID Phals are also getting the yellow/green molting of the flowers and maybe one more plant too...my Onc seem to be the only ones ok yet...eeekkkkk!!!!!!!!! So I'm thinking I have a bacterial issue going on with my plants...suggestions? I'm thinking I need to treat them..what should I use? Where can I get it? How do I use it? How much? I'm really worried that at least 3 or 4 of my collection of 8 plants is now showing the weird green/yellow dappling of the leaves!

Please help!!!!! (I will not panic, I will not panic, I will not panic...)

[mehitabel]

This is a suggestion to alleviate some of your concerns: Try some Bayer's or Safer's "3 in 1", "safe for roses". Safe for roses is safe for orchids. The "3 in 1" is an anti-bacterial and anti-fungal, and insecticidal, so if there is a problem, it should deal with it. It is supposed to protect for 30 days. Use as directed.

I did notice you were cautioned that spraying the leaves with nitrogen can produce these kinds of problems, so be sure to change your cultural habits as well. Maybe more air and light and less spraying. If you have been getting the colder weather we have had here in the midwest, it might be fungal. I've read that colder temperatures make phals more susceptible to fungal problems.

If your new leaves come in unblemished, you are home free.

[vcuchick]

Yes, I am definately NOT spraying anymore! yesh, talk about lesson learned. Unfortunately, my plants are already done growing their new leaves for the season here on the east coast so I think I'm just going to have to keep a happy medium and try again next year.

Can I find that "3 in 1" at a hardware store?

[mehitabel]

Yes, you can get it at hardware stores, Big Box.

[vcuchick]

okay, here's what I found- I ran across the street to the Sear's Hardware (my orchids grow at my office) the Bayer box was HUGE! so I got something else- looked similar-

Bonide's Fung-onil (multi-purpose fungicide) instructions: spray foliage to point of runoff. repeat on a 7-10 day cycle until conditions are no longer favorable for disease delevopment.

active ingredents: chlorothanlonil (00.087%)

What is everyone's opinion? is it safe? Says its safe for flowers, roses, and ornamentals.

now keep in mind my orchids grow in S/H...is this gonna be safe? or am I just gonna completely kill my plants?

[mehitabel]

Vcu, in no way am I an expert on chemicals. I'm not even in the "Dummie" class. I do know that use of some things on an ailing plant might harm it.

"First, do no harm" I don't know anything about the chemical you bought. I recommended the 3 in 1 because I've used it, it works, and I know it's mild. I didn't think it would harm an already ailing plant.

Don't rush into using something you don't know about. IF your problem is fungal, you have time. Fungal problems are slow to develop. If you hafta hafta hafta do something, rub some cinnamon powder over the phal leaves you are worrying about. That I know helps often, and it isn't harmful.

I'd advise reading as much as you can at the AOS and other "orchid pests and diseases" sites til you feel more confidence. Or wait til you get more advice from people who know chemicals.

You might try a new post about the chemical you're thinking of trying.

[PhalPal]

Originally Posted by vcuchick

okay, here's what I found- I ran across the street to the Sear's Hardware (my orchids grow at my office) the Bayer box was HUGE!

Bayer 3 in 1 comes in a 16 ounce spray bottle so I don't know what you were looking at????
I agree with Mehitabel; I would not use anything that has not been used by others who grow orchids. You can look for Brooks Recipe on the forum and try that too if you like, but the 3 in1 will be much easier to find.

[vcuchick]

OK, thanks gang...I think I'll take the other stuff back and look for the spray bottle for bayers.... the Baeyer container I saw was like 50 oz!

[Brooke]

Please go back and read Ray's post regarding the shock your plants may be having since they were recently moved to s/h.

It is not uncommon for leaves getting ready to die to develop black fungal looking spots before they turn yellow and fall off. This is not a disease problem, just something that an orchid will do - ugly but not a disease problem.

Your plants may just be stressed over the new s/h culture.

Brooke

[vcuchick]

Thanks Brooke! I'm thinking that too so I'm just gonna give them lots of sunshine and root simulant and fresh h20 every day and keep an eye on them and see what happens over the next few weeks.