Undiagnosed phal issues

[shellbell75]

First of all, thank you all so much for the pics and info posted on this forum. I stumbled accross the site about a month ago and have found it sooooo helpful.

I now have 7 phals, all in various stages of growth and health - 5 of 7 we recently rescued from a big box store ($18 for all). We went in looking for a fan and walked out with it and the new babies. I've been able to answer many questions just by reading through the forum, but now I have two issues that I can't seem to find definitive diagnosis or treatment info for anywhere. So in the interest of lowering the obsession levels in the house (hourly checks ), I thought I'd see what everyone here had to say.

Some quick history:
I removed and squished a goodsized mealy bug before leaving the store.
All 5 had severe root rot, so I sacrificed any remaining spikes and suspect older leaves to the orchid gods. I trimmed off all the bad roots, soaked all in Brookn's dish soap recipe (about 30 min), then hydrogen peroxide ( about 20 min, lots of bubbles from all), dusted all cut root tips and foliage cuts with cinnamon and then into new presoaked medium bark and terracotta pots. All perked up for a few days, then relaxed a little.
I did not fertilize during the repotting, but 7 days later I soaked all of them up to the top of the medium in a 20-14-13 fert mixed 1 tsp per gallon water. The only critters that showed themselves were, what I think were, a few fungal gnats, which I promptly squished.

They all seem to be plugging along except for two issues:

1. The most root- and leaf-damaged in the bunch has only one mature and one relatively new leaf left. It seemed to be doing ok (the newer leaf has grown and the mature leaf is plump and firm) but then a couple of days ago the mature leaf started to show some mottled yellowing and one edge of the leaf is starting to slowly turn brown. On the underside of the leaf, there is some light black spotting located in the same areas as the yellowing spots on top. I tried to wipe it off with an alcohol soaked swap, but I got nothing. The mottled yellowing and browning edges seem to be concentrated to one side of the leaf and appears to be progressing. Which brings me to the second issues, which is affecting this phal as well as 3 others (continued in next post...)

[shellbell75]

2. Some of the leaves have these small translucent spots on the underside of the leaves. Some of the spots have made it through to the top and some of the larger spots have dark masses in the center with translucent edges. No actual holes have formed in the leaves and the spots don't appear to be pitting or raised. Some previous threads lead me to believe it's a critter. I've wiped all of the spots with an alcohol swab everyday since they've been in my care. Some seem to be drying up, some seem unaffected, and in the last couple of days I've noticed new ones. Any ideas?

I'll post picks as soon as I can.

[shellbell75]

As a side note, it has been a miserable, wet, cool summer thus far in Northeastern Connecticut, so I have a fan running about 14 hours a day.

[mehitabel]

I would quit swabbing the alcohol all the time. Alcohol *can* (ie won't necessarily, but can) have a chilling effect when applied to the leaves. When I see suspect leaf problems I dust a little cinnamon on. It's a contact anti-fungal, anti-bacterial and has always stopped the leaf problems for me. Leave it on til you're sure the leaf problems aren't growing.

Don't fertilize at 1 t per gallon. IMO, 1 t for a 20Nitrogen fert is too strong. Use a solution diluted to 1/4 whatever it says on the label. So if the label says use 1t per gal, use 1/4 t per gal. I use an eyedropper to measure fert. Phal roots are extremely susceptible to chemicals and you can damage them further with too much fert. In fact, never fertilize a damaged plant. Wait til it's recovering.

On cut root tips, try using powdered root hormone instead of cinnamon. In fact, root hormone is a good idea for root-compromised roots. Leave damaged leaves on til they completely yellow. A challenged plant needs every speck of leaf it has.

Your most damaged one is probably a gonner.

Finally, I would say, don't buy any more rescue orchids til you know more. The success rate with these is probably no more than 50% even if you do everything right. You don't need to start off with a lot of failures. You can learn from failures, but actually you learn more from success. Not as much information in failures as in success. Buy healthy plants, as big as you can afford, until you have more experience and some successes.

[syndywindy]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. I agree with Mehitabel. I don't use fert often, but when I do, I error on the side of caution and use less than the recommended amount. Maybe 1/2 tsp per gallon. perhaps using Physan would be helpful. It helps control viruses, fungus, bacteria, etc. Unfortunately, you never know what you are going to get from big box stores, its like buying something as is. You take your chances. As Mehitabel said, you should get an orchid from a reputible grower, your chances for success and less fretting incresase. After you've posted a few times, you can then post pictures which will be helpful in figuring out what exactly is going on with your orchids. I'm sure others will offer more suggestions for you.

[CharliesAngel51]

Glad you joined us. Good luck with the rescue of your orchids.

[shellbell75]

Thank for the kind welcomes Pics coming soon...

[shellbell75]

Thanks for the advice about the fertilizer - you never can trust those labels . Since it was time anyway, I gave everyone a good soak in plain water to try to flush what fertilizer I could from the roots.

Also gave the leaves that looked suspect a good cinnamon dusting.

I knew these five would be a challenge. Two of them were in the same pot and my boyfriend fell in love with them (he nicknamed them "The Doubler"), so against my better judgement, they came home with us. The new 5 are quarantined from my other two phals (my avatar is of the more mature one's 2009 blooms - lasted 4 months ), both of which I've had over 4 years. I just love them all, but I know not all may survive, so I'll wait till they're out of the woods before naming them

The first two pics are of the mottled yellowing, top and bottom of leaf. On the bottom of the leaf, the light brown is cinnamon - the darker brown inside the yellowing is something that will not wipe off. Also, the white mass there (size is a little smaller than a pencil eraser) has been there since I brought it home. It has not changed in size and will not wipe off with Brookn's recipe or alcohol.

The second two pics are of the translucent spots I described above in a post. These are two different spots.

My issues are varied and numerous , but I've already learned so much from these phals that's it's been totally worth it.

[jerrymeola]

There has been a bit of confusion growing on the forum about fertilizer dilutions.

Normal tropical plant fertilizer 20-20-20 is recommended at 1 TSP per gallon.

The expression to fertilize orchids weakly intends to reduce this amount by 1/2 to 1/4, but of a TBS. 1 tsp is 1/3 of a TBS and a good amount.

When you buy 'orchid fertilizer' the product is the same as general purpose fertilizer except for the instructions. The instructions on an 'orchid fertilizer' package have already reduced the amount. You do not need to reduce the amount twice.

Commercial growers use 20-20-20 at about 1 tsp per gallon or even a little stronger.

The plants are a problem. The bugs were probably eating the roots.

When you remove bad roots you should withhold fertilizer until you start to get new root growth. On many plants, you would withhold water as well, but I have no recommendation with Phals. We never keep bad Phals. They go directly into the compost.

When a plant starts to look like it is growing, it may not be. The growth comes from the leaves and storage in the plant and when that ends (which is quickly) the plant starts to shed leaves. Without roots to continue to feed the plant, it can only deteriorate. Any leaves feed by the removed roots will be discarded by the plant. That is what is happening to yours. They used their reserve food and then could not replace it.

[shellbell75]

The fertilizer I use is specifically for orchids and made by Better Gro - so does this mean I can and should be using at the instruction's dilutions or should I still use a weaker dilution? Also, should I be fertilizing each time I soak (about every 7 days) as the instructions indicate, or every other watering, once a month...?

For my ICU patients, I will hold off until they're out of the woodsand showing signs of new growth, but I have two others that are healthy that I would like to give a little boost if appropriate