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Old 05-29-2008, 08:04 AM
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OH NO...What's this?

What is it? How do I treat it? Advice is greatly appreciated!

I used some Physan 20 on it but I've come to believe that Physan is only good for cleaning the shelves.


Last edited by sandra; 05-29-2008 at 08:51 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:22 AM
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:59 AM
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Too bad we can't just ask these plants how they're feeling...
Did you know if this just popped up out of the blue, or has it been awhile getting to this condition?
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Old 05-29-2008, 12:46 PM
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Is is soft?? From the picture it looks bacterial to me, but I could tell more if I could touch it!

When I really can't figure out what I'm looking at I do surgery. I would cut off the top third of the leaf and treat with Physan and cinnamon, just to be on the safe side.
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:25 PM
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Ditto to PhalPal. Make sure you cut well below the discoloration and don't forget to disinfect your shears after surgery.

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Old 05-29-2008, 06:56 PM
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Disinfect the chears before *and* after surgery. Also, dust the edge of the cut surface with sulpher or cinnamon to seal off the wound. That way, you prevent secondary fungal/bacterial infections.

-Cj
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Old 05-29-2008, 06:59 PM
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sandra: As PhalPal said it sure looks like bacterial.

I think it is a wise suggestion to cut that portion out since it does not appear that it can be saved. Plus you would arrest further spread of the 'disease'.

Didn't you have a similar problem a few months ago?

I hope it is not serious.

Good luck.
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Old 05-29-2008, 07:19 PM
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"Chears?" What am I, Penelope Cruz?

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Old 05-29-2008, 09:20 PM
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I'm taking everyone's advice and cutting it out in the morning. That spot wasn't there 2 days ago, I would have noticed it. What's strange is, the other leaf has 2 holes/puncture wounds in it, sort of like cat's teeth..hmmm. The only thing I can't figure out is how perfect the holes are...no other nibbles leading up to them. Here's a pic...



I think this is my cat's (Lilly) doing...I think....except the holes are too perfectly round, unlike her munching habits?

Thanks everybody for helping me decide what I should do.

Pikevi, yes, it was me last year trying to combat (with yours and Tobi's help) that dreadfully sick Phal.

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Disinfect the chears before *and* after surgery. -Cj
JES to disinfecting the chears before and after Cj!
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:28 PM
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Looks like someone put out their cigarette on it. Ha! Ha! Ha! I'm sure that's not it though. My husbands' friends use to visit and put their cigarettes out into my planters in the yard all the time. So annoying!!!! Maybe they were trying to get back at me for making them go outside to smoke.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:54 PM
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I'll have an occasional cigarette on the patio myself but the ashtray's on the table and the plants are on their respective shelves! Nope, not cigarette holes.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:24 PM
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Lilly must be one big kitty....those fang makes look pretty far away from the edge if she took a taste. Do you have any crows around??? Or some other type of large bird that might have thought it looked tasty???
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:37 PM
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Connie, I'm on a screened in patio so no way with any birds. This Phal sits with about 25 others and it's just this one....which is now sitting all by itself, far away from the rest.

It doesn't look like teeth marks to me either but what else could it be? I'm almost scared now....
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:01 AM
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I think the holes are/were made by some insect, perhaps earwigs.

Slugs can do that too. caterpillars occasionally start in the middle of the leaf but for that , I believe, there should be a prominent vein.

But I don't think they are a cause for concern except for the appearance.

It is a good decision to excise the rotting part of the leaf.

Good luck and all the best.
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Old 05-30-2008, 07:13 AM
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So how's the patient doing today?
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:20 AM
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Hi Sandra,
Sorry I'm a little late on the thread. Was the spot hard and undulated or soft? You stated
the spot became that big in just 2 days. Did you notice if it was getting any bigger or
just remaining the same size?
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:26 AM
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Hi Tobi. I'm glad you saw this. The spot isn't soft but feels a tiny bit softer than the rest of the leaf. The spot is deeper (blacker) now but still contained and the same size. What do you think?
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:36 AM
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If it's not really mushy and growing, I don't think it's bacterial. At first glance, I thought
it might be sunburn. It still could be fungal though. Just to be on the safe side, I'd
probably remove the area and dust with cinnamon. It's hard to tell unless you monitor
it to see if it spreads, but then you're taking a chance of it going systemic and it's
better to be safe than sorry.
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:42 AM
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Thanks Tobi. It's being removed shortly. I had a late morning and still on my first cup of coffee....

Orchidementia, I'll be performing surgery in a little while and will post updated pics. Thanks!!!
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Old 05-30-2008, 08:54 AM
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If it is not growing, I do not think it is bacterial or fungal. I burned a dozen plants just like this at my last outdoor show in only an hour. I think it is sun burn.

Still there is not chlorophyll left in that section of leaf so amputation can not hurt the plant any more and removal safer.
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:07 PM
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I agree that the other two holes are bug related. Go easy on your kitty! They look like some earwig holes I've seen out here.

Hope the operation goes well
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:13 PM
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I live in FL, too, and my backyard is crawling with caterpillars! That might be what munched your leaf. Mine like to build cocoons on the glass panes of the back door. I don't do anything to control for them, though. A few holey leaves are worth lots of butterflies to me!
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:59 PM
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Orchid Vampire????
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Old 05-30-2008, 04:22 PM
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Just a thought, If it happened very suddeenly you may want to consider heat. Overheating. I'm starting to get that here and there with some of my younger plants. My lights are running too hot...
Just trying to hang in until I move this weekend and then I will change the set up to cool things down...
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Old 05-31-2008, 05:37 AM
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Just wondering, Tobi ; Would fungal infections in plants have smooth edges?

Thanks.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:15 AM
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I cut out whatever this was, the roots looked great which was a big consolation. Cleaned it up, soaked it with Physan 20, repotted in fresh media, new pot. I'm wondering if this spot was even related to the 2 mystery punctures in the other leaf. This morning, I noticed a moth on the screen door. Wondering if that could have been the culprit?



Also, another bummer.....my oldest Toulimnia croaked. I noticed a black spot and by the next morning, the bottom started turning yellow. I took it out of the sphag., bathed it, repotted in some seedling bark but it was too late. Things like this cause me to doubt everything I thought I was doing correctly. I think I may have kept it too wet.
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Old 05-31-2008, 08:29 AM
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I'm sorry... That IS a bummer. If the humidity is increasing, maybe watering isn't as needed? I'm up where the humidity is still pretty low. The 2 holes in your leaves have me really baffled. Even snails would have munched elsewhere. It isn't kitty damage- I know what that looks like!
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Old 05-31-2008, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sandra View Post
Also, another bummer.....my oldest Toulimnia croaked. I noticed a black spot and by the next morning, the bottom started turning yellow. I took it out of the sphag., bathed it, repotted in some seedling bark but it was too late. Things like this cause me to doubt everything I thought I was doing correctly. I think I may have kept it too wet.
Just wanted to add that all is not completely lost. I cut out the one rotted pup, and the other growth that was rotting. The mother plant which had the spot and yellowing seems to have stopped (I hope). Treated with a Physan 20 bath and have it back in the basket with some bark chips. I'm almost sure this happened because of the temp. change and it being in sphag. that I wasn't giving enough time between watering, to dry out. We'll see...
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:21 PM
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When someone said that Tolumnias were the only plants that didn't like hydroponics, I figured that they didn't like a lot of excess moisture. I think your move to the bark mix instead of sphag, was a good one.
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Old 05-31-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikevi View Post
Just wondering, Tobi ; Would fungal infections in plants have smooth edges?

Thanks.
I'm not sure of that answer. I know the outer margins of the infected site
can become yellowish, but as far as smooth, not certain. There are many
different types which I am just beginning to scatch the surface in learning
about them.
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Old 05-31-2008, 04:45 PM
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Thanks Tobi.

sandra: what great job!!! You would have made a great surgeon!

Congratulations. I am sure you would not see the problem again.

Good luck.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:12 PM
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It's back............???

Don't know the best action to take on this. It wasn't there yesterday because I watered all the Phals then and would have noticed it. I have a feeling it's fungal, possibly exacerbated by the watering? From time to time I get fungal spots on my Dends which can be controlled with Physan spray but I've never been faced with it on a Phal.

Has anyone experienced this or know what the consequences would probably be if I left it?

P.S. The orange around the leaf is cinammon, from the last surgery.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:22 PM
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I'm leaning to the bacteria or mold/fungi aspect. If you leave it, it will probably just spread. Have you tried giving it a Brookn Recipe bath?
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
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I'm leaning to the bacteria or mold/fungi aspect. If you leave it, it will probably just spread. Have you tried giving it a Brookn Recipe bath?
Jenny, it's definitely either fungal or bacterial and I know it's spreading...the proof is right there again. I don't have cinammon extract, just the powder. I'll pick some up on my way home tonight. I have a feeling, there's going to be extra room on shelf, soon.
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Old 06-07-2008, 04:44 PM
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What if you cut that portion out gave it the bath and then put the cinnamon powder on to seal the cut?

Are any other plants showing signs like this? Maybe something in the air?
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:43 PM
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cut the whole leaf. it is spreading. If it spread to the crown you going to loss the plant.
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Old 06-07-2008, 05:44 PM
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Sandra, There was this phal. that was only $1.00, but it looked like someone had stepped on it and then ground their heel into it. We brought it home" and repotted it. Then it developed a mushy spot on the leaf edge like yours. I cut it off and did the cinnamon thing. It came back and gradually started to move up the leaf towards the crown. So in order to save the rest of the plant, I cut off the entire leaf. Cinnamon again and H2o2 as an added protection. I even sprayed with Bayer 3 in 1. Now it sits in isolation in an unused bedroom. It has done absolutely nothing in the past few months--no new growths, but no re-occurence of whatever it was The only thing I can tell you is to watch the leaf, be prepared for the worst, but hope for the best and try every trick you know!
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Old 06-07-2008, 07:09 PM
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I say cut and peroxide. I am not a big believer in Physan. I would not repot again, way too much stress. I would pour the peroxide all over it, and down into the medium, let it sit for a few minutes, then flush with some water. Then cut and peroxide where you cut then cinnamon. I used Bayer for my Neos that were getting black roots, and it worked great, so 3-4 days after surgery spray with Bayer. Doing all of those things at the same time might cause stress also. Water just before it is dry, if it is the day you normally water it, wait one more day.
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Old 06-07-2008, 08:42 PM
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When you cut, cut about a centimeter or so into the good tissue. This will help to insure none of the unhealthy tissue or its juices remain.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:03 AM
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I did what brookn suggested....peroxide, flush, cut, more peroxide and cinammon. I would have cut the entire leaf off except I was afraid that I'd cut into the neck of the plant. If this doesn't work then, it's just a goner.

Thanks for all the advice...once again
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Old 06-09-2008, 12:47 AM
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It's in good hands. Surely the second surgery took care of it this time.
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