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Old 09-04-2008, 05:06 PM
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Physan-20 Algaecide, Fungicide, Bactericide & Virucide

I thought I'd make a post about this Physan 20 product, being that one of my Lilacs outside got a fungus growing around it due to the mulch and a bit too much watering this season.. I can't seem to get rid of it with regular measures.. So I got this stuff (physan 20). I just wanted to know what you all thought about this product.. As I may use it on my orchids when needed. Perhaps once , maybe twice a year for general protection..

It says it's all purpose and is actually directed mostly for orchids.. As it says you can use this stuff for fountains, birdbaths, african violets and more.. Just no edible foods.. Like a veggie garden for example.. lol

Thanks in advance..
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:17 PM
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I think that it is about the most worthless product hyped for Orchids. It was developed as an algaecide to wash greenhouse windows and it does a bad job at that.

Read the label there is not one disease that it claims to cure.

All the effective fungicides are strong poisons and dangerous to use.

Protect your orchids with good care not poisons.
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:27 PM
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Ok.. I think I will just test this stuff out on my one lilac and see what happens.. If it's really that bad of stuff.. I don't want it anywhere near my orchids! period..

Other than that, what sort of fungicide do you recommend for orchids for general use and protection Jerry?
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Old 09-04-2008, 05:35 PM
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Sorrry Jerry,but I don't know of any chemical or drug for plants or people that claims a cure. I read many orchid forums,as I am sure you do and you have alot more experience and lots of people use Physan 20. Not only that, it is in a lot of orchid books including AOS so either it hasn't worked for you or all these other people don't know what they are taking about. I suspect it is somewhere in between.
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Old 09-04-2008, 06:16 PM
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Here is the link to Physan 20.

Physan 20

On the left side of the home page are different areas you can click on and learn how to use the product properly and the bacteria and fungus it will work on. The topics are

Home and Garden Applications
Plant and Disease Useage Guide
Mixing Guide
How To Purchase
Related Links
Orchid Instructions
African Violet Instructions
Commerical Grower/Greenhouses

This product does not claim to cure every disease but it gets pretty specific on some of the problems encountered with orchids. It is also one of the safe(r) products available. It has all the necessary EPA warnings for you to read before making a decision if it is the product for you.

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Old 09-04-2008, 07:31 PM
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I use it as do a lot of people around here. I am not too impressed that it has stopped anything that was obviously diseased. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt orchids in the recommended concentration.
The type of chemical it is, is part of a large group of compounds, several used as washing antiseptics in the medical environment. Maybe that is all it is good for. It certainly is not a wonder drug.
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Old 09-04-2008, 07:46 PM
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I'd like to thank you all and future posts on this thread.. As it is making up my mind as to how it should be used and what it should be used on. If anything.. I think it will be a very good fungus preventitive.. And that is a plus.. After I use it on my Lilac.. I will be sure to post my results.. As that area in which the lilac is in, and the lilac itself are in need of help asap! Thanks guys!
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NicC View Post
I use it as do a lot of people around here. I am not too impressed that it has stopped anything that was obviously diseased. On the other hand, it doesn't hurt orchids in the recommended concentration.
The type of chemical it is, is part of a large group of compounds, several used as washing antiseptics in the medical environment. Maybe that is all it is good for. It certainly is not a wonder drug.
Nick
My opinion tends to lean on NicC's take on the product. Although, I haven't really noticed Physan 20 take care of an outbreak, I have used from time to time. A few months back I used it to soak the medium for my seedlings. It seemed to work there because I never got any type of mold or fungus. You should probably keep in mind that you are using an antiseptic more than anything else. Like NicC said, "It certainly is not a wonder drug.".

I also have to agree with Jerry that the best cure for any disease is to be proactive about it. This year or summer I should say has taught me quite a bit. This fall/winter I will make sure I get my plants in tip top shape before our spring comes in 2009. My plan is to use nothing but natural methods of anti- fungal/bacterial. For example, the use of fans, the positioning of plants, watering regimen, and beneficial forms of bacteria like Companion, and Worm Tea, the occasional N-P-K fertilizer will be in there too.
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:20 PM
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This is one product that truly surprises me as to how it's gotten a reputation as anything remedial, in preventing or aiding in the removal of any fungus on orchids!

It's great for cleaning the shelves your orchids are on, for cleaning your supplies, disinfecting your hands before handling BUT not even as a spray inbetween fungicidal applications, does this work!!!! I know....I've got half a bottle left . Every orchid supply shop carries this, everybody carries this and I can't figure out why...well, I can figure out why but why there are so many who promote this, is beyond my comprehension.

GardenSafe Fungicide is pretty good. I've used this regularly over the summer and it's done the job well!

Bayer 3 in 1 Rose & Flower (systemic) also, very good.

Organocide Spray, a little more pricey but does the job!
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Old 09-04-2008, 11:41 PM
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Physan 20 is safe for many orchids. It's not available here in Australia but when I lived in America I used it on fungal spotting with good success. It doesn't remove fungus or heal leaves damaged from fungus, nothing will do that as leaves don't regenerate, but it did stop the fungal problems from advancing and works as a preventative. I have not used it on thin-leaved orchids like Lycaste, Zygo, or Calanthe.

I also used Physan (diluted in water according to directions) to soak seedling bark before deflasking and I soaked paph seedlings in it too. Finally, for several weeks after deflasking, watered with it (again dilute). I never lost a single seedling to fungus.

I am extremely suspicious any time anyone makes any all-application miracle-use sort of claims about anything. I looked at the Physan website and it doesn't come across as a miracle remedy to me, but that's just my read. The claims that have been made about worm tea have been more grandiose.

Physan claims to be a fungicide which in my experience it is. It claims to be a virucide but I don't know how it deals specifically with orchid viruses. I notice in the orchid section of their website it doesn't mention viruses specifically. I suspect it will kill viruses on surfaces but will probably not remove them from the tissues of your orchid if it is virused.

So like Uchei suggested, the reality is somewhere between the extremes (as it almost always is). I believe it is neither the miracle that some have made it out to be nor the villain.
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Old 09-05-2008, 06:34 AM
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I think that my objection to the product is that it is such a waste of money for a product that does no more than you can achieve with peroxide for 1/30th the cost.

It is safe on orchids just because it is so weak.

All "medicines" treatments etc are poisons that (hopefully) kill the problem before they kill the patient. This applies to human medicines and plant treatments. We read in the papers every day of deaths due to over dosages of human prescription drugs. Kemo cancer treatment will be considered barbaric 100 years from now when we learn better treatments.

Back to orchids. Treatments to be effective on an active disease have to be very strong almost to the point of killing the plant. In a commercial setting where thousands of plants are at risk, we sacrifice some for the good of more. The best of care will not save everything. 15% loses are considered commercially acceptable. Preventative treatment is the rule.

There are chemicals that are effective against active infestations. They are expensive, dangerous and take a great degree of care in administration.

I never recommend them on this forum because of the problems. I will give one example here.

Subdue - one of the few liquid (most are powders) fungicides - It is very effective in stopping Pythium fungus (Black Spot, root Rot etc). It is not effective against fusarium, that requires another set of chemicals.

Problems:
Very toxic - strong warning that if you get it on your skin rinse for 15 minutes in running water. Wear clothing covering your whole body and plastic gloves and face mask.

Very toxic to plants - dilution 1 ounce per 100 gallons of water - overdoses can scorch the plants - Similar to many treatments it uses a petroleum base to carry the chemical. This petroleum can burn holes in the leaves of plants if applied with temperatures over 90%. Neither warning is on the label, you learn from experience.
All instructions for administration is in ounces per acre for crops.

Use no more than 2-3 times a year - continuous use can result in resistant strains that can not be cured by further treatment. So if repeated treatment is necessary you need to rotate the treatment with other chemicals.

All this for a mere $300 a quart. If you alternate with others so as not to develop resistant strains add $200-300 for each chemical.

I use it when there are no other options, but it frightens me and I use it with extreme care. I would not want this around a home with children and pets. The department of argiculture requires nurseies to keep all chemicals in leak-proof containers on cement pads.

I still prefer organic treatments that strengthen the plant to resist infestations.
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:30 AM
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Jerry why would someone spend $300 for a quart of Subdue to stop botrytis on their orchid collection? You are comparing apples to oranges here. No where on the literature does it say Physan will stop the pythium fungus and using it as a preventative against all types of fungus and bacteria is a waste of money and product.

Kevin the virucide capability is limited to contact killing on surfaces with instructions to stop the spread of a virus from contaminated tools, hands, work areas etc. Right now, there is no known treatment for a virused plant except to eliminate it.

Some things to consider -

If peroxide is so much better for plants, why does it kill the tissue on my fingers and leave the white dead skin visible.

Why is it an accepted belief that worm tea is so safe to use when it has "beneficial" bacteria in it and we are encouraged to spray it on our plants without proper safety clothing/masks, etc. Surely breathing in the mist of a living bacteria would not be good for your lungs.

Physan is probably a good product for a limited number of things and don't ask it to be a cure all for everything nasty.

Brooke
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Old 09-05-2008, 07:36 AM
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...so Physan is diluted to the point where it doesn't harm the orchids. That sounds like a good thing to me.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
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If peroxide is so much better for plants, why does it kill the tissue on my fingers and leave the white dead skin visible.
Actually, it doesn't "kill" the tissue; what you are witnessing is called capillary embolism and is a temporary whitening of the skin. As you probably know, at certain dilutions, hydrogen peroxide is a bleach; at the dilution used for household topical applications (3%), contact with the skin may cause debridement of any already necrotic tissue, but such a weak solution (or even 15%, used to bleach hair), won't cause tissue necrosis.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
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GardenSafe Fungicide is pretty good. I've used this regularly over the summer and it's done the job well!
I have a bottle of garden safe but have been to wimpy to try it. There was this brand I had that neem oil in that I think killed a phal I had. But I think I'll give it a try now. I have two catts outside still. can I spray them down every week with it? I was planning on bathing them n the cinnamon recipe when I bring them in. I think it is Garden safe 3 in 1 for bugs to. I am noticing little spider web strings on the leaves.

As for Physan the only time I have ever used it was when Erich Micheal sprayed down a poor phal I bought as a rescue at Lowe's. The rhizome was rotting from the bottom up. I don't know if it was the Pysan or the cinnamon spray and the peroxide I put on it religiously after taking it back home that stopped the rot. I think it is more the peroxide/cinnamon that stopped it. I can't realy tell from only using it once.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
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I have a bottle of garden safe but have been to wimpy to try it. I have two catts outside still. can I spray them down every week with it? I was planning on bathing them n the cinnamon recipe when I bring them in. I think it is Garden safe 3 in 1 for bugs to. I am noticing little spider web strings on the leaves.
kid a, I use this very freely on my Dends and Catts (all alliances). I had a threat of thrips and after I got that under control, I have been diligent about spraying, especially here in the summer with humidity in the high 90's and fungus growing on the sides of houses, let alone my poor little orchids. In fact to get rid of other pests and control fungus, it's advised to apply at least 3 times within 10 days, to kill off the eggs and other nasties.

I don't use it on my Phals or Cattasetum but on everything else including my succulents.
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Old 09-05-2008, 09:34 AM
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Double thanks, lol!
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Old 10-04-2012, 08:54 PM
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I know a lot of society's that swear by it, an lots of older long term orchid growers use this.
It is used as a preventative, not a cure. And it should also be used properly.
Any cuts or open wounds on the orchid can be sprayed with this, and you can almost drench the orchid in it, then make sure you don't water the orchid for 3 days! It's very important to seal the wound.
This used along with proper orchid care and you'll have no fungal problems.
Prevent the problem before you have to cure it!
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:31 AM
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Physan is a TOPICAL disinfectant and algaecide. It is not intended to cure any disease that has already entered a plant. Don't criticize a product for not doing something it's not supposed to do. It is also a good product for sterilizing tools.

Drugstore hydrogen peroxide is really of limited use - once applied (also a topical product, so don't expect it to cure diseases either), it decomposes almost immediately, leaving water on the plants. (Hint hint - don't try to use it for crown rot, as it won't be active long enough to kill all of the fungi, and then will add to the problem by pooling in the crown.)

One of the best products I have found to use as a general disinfectant/algaecide is Zero-Tol, which is hydrogen peroxide stabilized with peroxyacetic acid. It is far more effective than the drugstore strength, even though the peroxide concentration is a fraction of it, because the stabilizer keeps it active until it dries. It comes in a self-mixing hose-end sprayer, which is great for the greenhouse. The same product is also sold in a ready-to-apply quart hand pump sprayer under the trade name OxiDate. These are my products of choice these days.

Unlike Physan, I have seen no phytotoxicity in any plants when using them.
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:30 AM
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I have and use Physan 20. It's great for sterilizing your cutting tools. Also used it on one of my catts w/black rot. So far it has worked
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Old 10-08-2012, 01:15 AM
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It is pretty useful for me. When I catch the bacterial infection early on (e.g 3-5mm spot), I carefully put the UNDILUTED Physan-20 with Q-tip. Then I start to poke bunch of holes around the region with needles (from outside of the infection toward inside). This works pretty well and stops the spread quickly. It does seem to kill the chloroplast of the region, and the area becomes "bleached" for some species, so you need to be careful that it doesn't drip onto healthy leaves.

Well if the infection is too advanced, I usually need to use a bigger gun like Phyton-27.
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