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Old 04-24-2008, 10:13 PM
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How to deal w/ aphids on a flowering plant?

Does anyone know the best way to go about dealing w/ aphids on a flowering plant? The new nobiles I just picked up have a few unwanted visitors...I'm just smashing them as I go along, but how do I deal w/ them more permanently?
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:25 PM
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What about Brookn's recipe? Have you tried that yet?

I think you'll it this thread

http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orc...html#post56741
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:50 PM
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I'm afraid to use anything since the aphids are hiding in the flowers...I've been searching like a monkey for them. So far, I've killed 20+ by hand.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:40 AM
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Shot them off with a stream of water. A hand pump up sprayer would do. You can spray them with Safers insect spray. Its organic. If you want to make your own try Brookyns as mentioned above.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:49 AM
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I have sprayed blooms with the spray before, didn't seem to bother them. I use the sprayer on mist when I spray leaves and such. I don't know about aphids, I have not had them, so I don't know if it will work on them. Maybe someone else has used the spray on them?
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:53 AM
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I don't know about aphids. Haven't had that problem, but assuming will later on. If Brookn's Recipe can kill everything I mentioned including slugs, worms and mites,,,,(Not to mention flies AND bees in mid flight ) I'm sure it can kill aphids.
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Old 04-25-2008, 12:55 AM
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It killed some ants invading the kitchen tonight lol.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:03 AM
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See?! Works wonders and smells good too.
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Old 04-25-2008, 01:06 AM
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LOL thats awesome! I was looking more closely at the plant and it seems to just be the one. The tough part about spraying it too is that they've decided to seek refuge in the tiny little crevices...yay...
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Old 05-03-2008, 04:24 AM
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I'm a noob to this forum and to orchids but I've been growing fuchsias forever - here's my recipe for home-made aphid/any bug on my plant killer that I use on fuchsias and orchids: 1 part 70% rubbing alcohol; 3 parts water; 1 TBS Dr Bronner's Liquid Peppermint Castile soap (I sometimes use Ginger soap). Smells nice; safe for the plant and you and kills the little #$&*ers!
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Old 05-03-2008, 05:46 AM
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Worm Tea is an instant cure. The ceitanease in the tea dissolves the ceitain that forms the skeleton of the aphids body. I sprayed my roses one night that were infected with hundreds of aphids. They were gone the next day, not to return.

Since Aphids can fly they left for safer feeding grounds

I spray flowers all the time witht eh tea. It also adds moisture back into the flowers extending their lives.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:34 PM
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So ever since I got this orchid, I've been spraying it almost every other day with Schultz Insect Spray. Its water-based and hasn't harmed the blooms at all. The problem is that the aphids won't go away. They seem to be getting bigger and fatter by the day! I haven't tried the mixture that some people were suggesting, but I was wondering if anyone has had any other methods to get rid of the buggers.

I'm going to try the worm tea now and see if that does the trick.
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:44 PM
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I've been using the OVE worm tea for about 14-16 months and I have NEVER had any pests. I spray a few times a week and occassionally water all my plants with the worm tea. Even when my coleus plants were swarming with mealy bugs, the orchids were safe. Not sure what this worm poop tea does scientifically, but obviously it keeps the critters out and that's good enough for me.

Safer's7 soap works great, Bayers 3 in 1 spray and I think that any mild soap solution you concoct will probably work as long as you keep abreast of the problem and respray a couple times a week. As previously mentioned, Dr Bronner's Liquid Peppermint Castile soap is also great stuff for making your own home made soap sprays. For some reason, bugs don't seem to enjoy peppermint!
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Old 05-06-2008, 10:31 PM
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-dragging it back up from the depths-

are y'all using the worm tea full strength? i've been using pyrethrin spray on the hibiscuses and it ain't doing it. i've got worm tea though; i usually mist with it diluted--do i need to use it full strength on the 'phids? TIA...
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:22 AM
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I had them on a blooming plant a few months back, what I did was take the plant in the shower and used hand held shower to shoot them off sideways, not down into the mix, so they don't crawl back up. did that a few times 1 week apart to finally get them all.
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:34 AM
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ButtOn, your description of the bugs hiding in flowers does not sound very aphid-like. Aphids should be feeding on the lower side of lower leaves (at least until the explosion of the population puts them everywhere.). Aphids also leave a sugary excrement that attracts ants and fungus. The fungus forms black patches where it is feeding on the aphid poop.

Aphids | University of Kentucky Entomology

It is not a good time to be experimenting with a John Wayne style snake oil recipe that cures everything from the common cold to cancer. You need to identify the pest and use the proper control. Doesn't a nearby university offer agricultural extension service to gardeners? It would be best to take your pest to them for ID.
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Old 05-07-2008, 06:07 PM
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Janet

Use the worm tea diluted. If the infestation is bad you can double the dosage and dilute about 20-1.
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Old 05-07-2008, 07:18 PM
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From JLu~
Quote:
It is not a good time to be experimenting with a John Wayne style snake oil recipe that cures everything from the common cold to cancer. You need to identify the pest and use the proper control. Doesn't a nearby university offer agricultural extension service to gardeners? It would be best to take your pest to them for ID.
?????????

I'm sure that Butt0n as with all other members of the forum who would like to rid pests naturally appreciate the advice that the older members give. I am not down playing your advice in any way, but I am not going to run any one of my over 50+ plants for an identification of a bug. I want it dead regardless.

There are some members who will only use natural remedies for pests, others who will just use chemicals and those who use both with chemicals being the last resort. Regardless of what is used, here on the forum we members have listed what we know that does and does not work.
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerrymeola View Post
Janet

Use the worm tea diluted. If the infestation is bad you can double the dosage and dilute about 20-1.
thanks.
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLu View Post
It is not a good time to be experimenting with a John Wayne style snake oil recipe that cures everything from the common cold to cancer.
I know this was a general shout-out, but my recipe does not cure cancer - just kills aphids, gnats and whitefly. Pretty standard recipe, except for using peppermint or ginger soap instead of Dove; peppermint and ginger burns the mouth-parts of the insect (like biting into an Altoid) and using Dr. Bronner's soap avoids lauryls and laureths, which are pretty harsh chemicals.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:30 AM
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They're definitely aphids...and everywhere really. I was concerned about spraying them since there were blooms on them. Anyhow, they're slowly going away...but not as quickly as I'd like them to.
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Old 05-08-2008, 05:59 AM
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"..............but I am not going to run any one of my over 50+ plants for an identification of a bug. I want it dead regardless. "

Three things about this response....first, all problem solving follows the same format. Identify the problem, identify appropriate responses, pick a possible response and apply it properly, and measure the response of the problem to the cure. If it fails, go back to step two (or step one if you did it wrong). Guessing what the problem might be is playing roulette and in the long run will result in losing your behind in the game because you delay fixing the problem and/or the cure makes it worse.

Second point...the goal should be to learn to identify the problem yourself and not have to seek outside help in most cases. However, achieving that is beyond any single persons ability and especially someone new to horticulture. You do learn as you go, but we wouldn't need doctors if we could always do it ourselves.

Third...I can identify with your "I just want it dead" remark. The problem is that you do not know how to get it dead unless you know what you're killing. True there are many broad spectrum insecticides, but they are not necessarily useful for all pests and all stages of all pests. So you need to know what you want to kill and the proper protocol for doing so. For example...if you have spider mites, they won't respond successfully to most common insecticides and require either miticides that kill all life stages or a long protocol.

My point was and is this...the nice person who made the original post described her problem (in my words) as aphids hiding in the flowers. I tried to be gentle in pointing out that aphids are not likely to be hiding in the flowers. That is not how aphids feed and behave. I suggested the person get some help because they clearly were not able to identify their problem at this point.

Orchidementia...could you tell me where I mentioned you or your recipe? I think you're reacting to something that never happened.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLu View Post

Orchidementia...could you tell me where I mentioned you or your recipe? I think you're reacting to something that never happened.
Dude, that's why I prefaced my post with "I know this was a general shout-out" meaning I know my dog wasn't specifically in your fight; as far as I could tell, you were against *every* magic recipe. Since mine deviated from the standard "Dove soap" formulation, it might well be considered a cancer cure-all (haven't tried it for that, though).

I enjoy reading your posts, though; they're informative and/or fun. No sarcasm dealy needed - I'm sincere!
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Old 05-08-2008, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JLu View Post
Aphids should be feeding on the lower side of lower leaves (at least until the explosion of the population puts them everywhere.). Aphids also leave a sugary excrement that attracts ants and fungus. The fungus forms black patches where it is feeding on the aphid poop.
I also wanted to point out that all of this is happening/happened. The aphids, are everywhere, even though it is a very small plant. Unfortunately, when I bought it, it came this way. I'm trying to treat it so it doesn't spread to my other plants. My original question was to see if there was anything safe to spray on a plant that is flowering. Now that the blooms are dying, I can deal with it without harming any flowers.
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Old 05-08-2008, 08:15 AM
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".........and using Dr. Bronner's soap avoids lauryls and laureths, which are pretty harsh chemicals."

".......as far as I could tell, you were against *every* magic recipe...."

OK "Dude" you succeeded in making me angry. Remember, I never engaged you in any discussion, you did engage me. I think if you insist on spouting chemistry on the internet you have some reasonable responsibility to be as factual as possible. Chemistry is a science, not a religion. It operates on facts, not faith.

In the first quote above you mention "lauryls" and "laureths". That's peculiar usage but here is what those are:

The common name "lauryl", more properly "dodecyl", is nothing but the prefix that identifies the existence of an aliphatic,12 carbon chain. Aliphatic means saturated (no double or triple bonds). The chain may be "normal" meaning non-branched or it my be branched, but it can not be cyclic or aromatic. There is no compound called "lauryl" it's a prefix to identify the chain length, but requires additional information to name a compound. For example normal-1-luaryl alcohol (more properly, it's IUPAC name is 1-hydroxy dodecyl alcohol) is a 12 carbon chain alcohol where the substitute -OH radical (alcohol) is on the end carbon atom. So point one, your contextual use of the term "lauryl" is meaningless gibberish.

Second your term "laureths" is the junk science name for a particular chemical compound. That compound is sodium lauryl sulfate or a very similar compound called sodium lauryl laureth sulfate (sodium lauryl ether sulfate). Sodium lauryl sulfate is a detergent, that means it has a polar end that allows it to attach to a water molecule and a non-polar end that allows it to attach to another non-polar molecule like a grease. That is the generic description of any detergent. This particular compound was used in hair shampoos and achieved a cult reputation as a cancer causing agent. I am not here to defend or condemn that compound regarding its cancinoginicity, but it doesn't appear to fall into the general class of cancer causing compounds. In fact, the whole issue has been traced to a competitor disparaging a competitive shampoo. Somehow along the way somebody decided to call it "laureths". That term has no meaning in this context in chemistry whatsoever. It's a descriptive adjective in naming that has no stand alone meaning just like "lauryl".Even if it is a human carcinogen, that means nothing regarding it's possible use on plants.

Regarding your statement on my thoughts on "magic" recipes...you seem awful defensive to me. I will say this much...if you find it necessary to describe it as "magic", then you can bet I, personally, have some reservations. I don't believe in magic. If there is no legitimate scientific proof of efficacy (and safety), then why in the world should I use it when perfectly acceptable, proved products exist? It defies common sense to use an unknown product when known ones that work are available.

All that said....let me state very clearly...I learned a long time ago that I'm not going to educate anyone who relies on "magic". I don't try, and I never made a disparaging statement regarding you or your biocide concoction. You deal with it.

One other clear statement. I'm not a person to brag about whatever knowledge I might have. There is plenty that I do not know. I was always taught that knowing that you do not know everything is a sign of intelligence. I do try to help explain chemistry to those who have questions. If you don't care for that, then skip my posts. It isn't my job or intent to force feed science to you and frankly I just don't have the motivation, but if you bring junk science to the table, I'm going to explain the facts to everyone else. It's very important to differentiate between facts and beliefs. Facts are those things widely accepted by people skilled in the art. I make an effort to stick to facts or to clearly state that something I say is an opinion or unsubstantiated belief. I may not always succeed but I try.

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Old 05-08-2008, 09:04 AM
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OK my Turn to point out the FACTS here

This is a forum where members can come to Relax, Learn, Share With Each Other IN A FRIENDLY MANNER

The forum has been designed to encourage members to learn from each other by sharing their stories and experiences.

please do not let anger spill out onto the open forum.
If the Tone of this thread keeps on this Track I will LOCK THE THREAD

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Old 05-08-2008, 11:56 AM
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Yeah, you're right Fred. This a very good forum and the people on it are very nice. I don't need to be getting upset on it.

Sorry orchidementia, I get upset quick when I think people are mis using science. On re reading your post I think you used some shaky science, but I don't think you had malicious intent. If you really think you have a unique product, you ought to take it to a manufacturer. If they agree with you, you could get rich overnight. Heck, maybe you are already rich, I don't know, you are in California where the rich people are. BTW, I'm no Dude. Where I come from a dude wears his hat bill over the ear his brains ran out of. I wear mine facing forward....where my brains ran out of.

Gotta get back to chaining down the trailer...there are tornadoes coming from Alabama. Those are the worst ones..mean dudes. The rednecks stir 'em up with sticks so they get wound tight and send them up here to eat hillbillies trailers.

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Old 05-08-2008, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
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Sorry orchidementia, I get upset quick when I think people are mis using science. (...) If you really think you have a unique product, you ought to take it to a manufacturer. If they agree with you, you could get rich overnight. Heck, maybe you are already rich, I don't know, you are in California where the rich people are.
Please consider that some posts are written with a light tone. Also please consider that the statement at the end of my post that so angered you was indeed sincere.

Apology accepted, and I am going to assume it was sincere despite what followed it. I am leaving this discussion for the sake of the forum; I had no intention of angering anyone.
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Old 03-25-2010, 10:06 PM
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I am new to this site. I bought an orchid and saw that it has aphids on the flowers. I googled and found you. The one bit of insight I'd like to offer is...My new orchid, has not a single aphid anywhere but the flowers.I know aphids and found this to be so odd.I investigated and found that there is white residue from a chemical spray underneth the leafs.Chances are that ButtOn bought a plant that was infested and sprayed. the only place that was not sprayed was the stem (because that is where the money is) and that’s where the aphids fled to.
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Old 03-26-2010, 10:29 PM
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Just look around your orchids and see if there are ladybirds. Ladybirds are tiny beatles which feed on aphids. Aphids are their favorite. They will finish off all the aphids. So do not worry.
Cheers!!

Last edited by maninair; 03-26-2010 at 10:34 PM.
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