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Old 10-08-2012, 08:31 PM
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Dealing with rot

So, a while back I posted a picture of my crown rot phal developing another spot of rot on its leaf, which I cut out and treated with cinnamon. That was a few weeks ago. Looking at it tonight, it looks like the rot is slowly spreading from the center of the crown, so I don't know if cutting is still an option. I have been trying to nurture this plant for over seven months at this time, and the roots are still in really great shape. What can I do to stop the rot?
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Old 10-08-2012, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love_my_soldier View Post
So, a while back I posted a picture of my crown rot phal developing another spot of rot on its leaf, which I cut out and treated with cinnamon. That was a few weeks ago. Looking at it tonight, it looks like the rot is slowly spreading from the center of the crown, so I don't know if cutting is still an option. I have been trying to nurture this plant for over seven months at this time, and the roots are still in really great shape. What can I do to stop the rot?
Hi Nicolene,
While I don't have any solutions to offer, sorry to hear about the trouble still lurking in the shadows! I do remember your post and know the feeling... when you do your best trying to save the plant!

Lilia
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Old 10-08-2012, 09:39 PM
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Did you try some hydrogen peroxide after cutting away the rot? Or has it just blackened and hardened where the rot was? After that time will tell.....mike has had one that came back from crown rot with care but it took a long time. Maybe pm him mayres
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Old 10-09-2012, 06:29 AM
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The crown was never brown and mushy. I lost the top leaf, and for many months it was just dried out and black in the center. It is only recently that it looks like the rot is continuing. It is a very black rot on the inside, but I will go ahead and use some peroxide on it today and see what happens. I know the main plant won't grow again, but I am concerned that if there is rot present if and when it decides to keiki, it will spread to the keiki and I will loose it as well.
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Old 10-09-2012, 07:40 AM
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The patient after the initial crown rot/damage.



What he looks like now, after 20 minutes of peroxide treatment. You can also see the scars from where I cut out the rot a few weeks ago. The entire top side is now black on the inside where it used to be green



And the roots from both sides of the pot. Most of what is visible has been new growth, with each new piece about 2 inches or more in length.



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Old 10-09-2012, 10:53 AM
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That second picture does not look too bad to me. I can't really see the rot (?) but there is a small area in the center of the crown that is in shadow (?) I do see some scarring from trimming back the leaf tissue and using the peroxide, but that is OK. Maybe a little more light in the center of the plant and another photo will show what you mean. Is what looks like shadow to me actually black, brown or dark green and watery/mushy?

If you need to use the peroxide again, each time you do so, remember to blot out any extra peroxide after about 5 minutes (gets rid of the excess water). I'm not sure how often the peroxide can be used safely (?)

Here is what I would try.

Keep watering on the low side (sort of the minimum range of watering for Phals; once a week to maybe 10 day intervals?). Each time you do water, do so very thoroughly, Do what you can to keep all water off of the leaves and out of the crown. Make sure that when you are done, inspect the plant and if any water has gotten on the leaves, blot up all water that may have gotten on the leaves or in the crown. If you have a fan, keep air moving on the plant until you are sure that there is no water on the leaves anywhere (leaves will dry long before the bark starts getting too dry).

The roots look quite healthy, so I hope you get a basal keiki for all your efforts, and your plant recovers.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:54 AM
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Hmm everything else looks so healthy. I would think the peroxcide and/or alcohol should do the trick. I hope it is able to recover!
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Old 10-09-2012, 12:01 PM
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I took the picture at 6 am this morning, so light was a little scarce. I will try to take another picture this afternoon when I get home. I did blot out all of the peroxide once I was done. I poured, fizzled, and blotted probably 7 times. It does have a lot more black in the center than the first picture, but I don't think it is mushy. I will keep fighting because I really think this plant has a will to live looking at the roots, but it is being so stubborn in terms of putting out a keiki.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:26 PM
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I have found isopropyl alcohol my weapon of choice with rot. It might take a few treatments but it seems to do a very good job if the rot is caught in time. It dries and disinfects.
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Old 10-09-2012, 10:29 PM
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The roots look amazing indeed!

Lilia
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Old 10-29-2012, 12:20 PM
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Update: crown rot patient

As I was watering my crown rot phal a few days ago, the top leaf decided it has had enough and broke out. There just wasn't enough good plant material to keep it supported. The plant went from sad to really pathetic looking. The roots are still doing great, so I will keep at it until there is no more green in sight. I really hope all of this will not be in vain.

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Old 10-29-2012, 03:28 PM
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If isopropyl alcohol doesn't work, you might need to look into using a dilute bleach solution. Bleach tends to kill what alcohol does not. I have never had to use bleach as the isopropyl alcohol has always worked for my orchids without harm to them. The other alternative is to look into one of the products created specifically to attack the organism causing the problem. For my roses and fruit trees, I use such products. If the orchid is a noID, the prices for such products can be difficult to justify, I know, but if you have other nice orchids, it might be worth it. Good luck!
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Old 10-29-2012, 03:44 PM
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So should I be treating it with alcohol even if it is not mushy? The black hole is pretty dried out looking. If so, how often should I treat it?
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Old 10-29-2012, 04:01 PM
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It is likely fine, then. Now you get to wait for a new growth. Sorry, I should have looked more closely! :0
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Old 10-29-2012, 08:07 PM
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It sure is a fighter! It will probably be your favorite if it makes it just because of all the work you put into it!
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:08 AM
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Just thought I would give an update and say...it is STILL not doing anything, except for maybe a new root nub here and there. I want to pull my hair out. I was starting to wonder if it is too cold close to the window where I have it. It does get good light when the sun decides to shine once every two weeks, but it can be pretty chilly. The roots are still great, and the rot spot on the last big leaf seems to have stopped spreading and is drying up. I want this to give me a keiki of some sort so badly. Any further ideas on getting this phal to get with the program?
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:29 PM
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Unfortunately, it is a time where patience and good care are the best advice, now.
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:30 PM
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As Smurfette's signature line says, "Patience is a virtue learned by growing orchids".

The good news is that it is not doing anything (such as rotting, etc.). Right now, you say it is in a cool spot, but if I were a betting man, my bet would be that your plant will start growing as the weather warms up in a few months.

In the meantime, resist temptation to tweak it too much. If you have a spot that is a bit warmer, with a BIT more light (not a lot more), you could try moving it.

Patience grasshopper, & good luck!
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Love_my_soldier View Post
Just thought I would give an update and say...it is STILL not doing anything, except for maybe a new root nub here and there. I want to pull my hair out. I was starting to wonder if it is too cold close to the window where I have it. It does get good light when the sun decides to shine once every two weeks, but it can be pretty chilly. The roots are still great, and the rot spot on the last big leaf seems to have stopped spreading and is drying up. I want this to give me a keiki of some sort so badly. Any further ideas on getting this phal to get with the program?
Just be patience! Don't give up on it yet! It does take time for it to develop a new growth from the leaf axil.

I seen it happen on plants when they added Dragon's Blood to stop the crown rot.


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Last edited by paphman910; 12-18-2012 at 02:34 PM. Reason: additional info
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Old 12-18-2012, 02:33 PM
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Oh how I hope you are right! It will be a full year at that time of watching it just look all sad and pathetic.
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Old 12-18-2012, 11:40 PM
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Oh how I hope you are right! It will be a full year at that time of watching it just look all sad and pathetic.
Thanks for the updates!
I remember someone once said that there are three types of success with orchids - first to stablilize the plant (that is it's not dying and the bacteria is not spreading), then to make it grow, 3rd one - to make it bloom.

Sounds like you've reached the first milestone! Give yourself a big patting for that as now you know how to stop the bacterial rot on Phals!

As for the keiki.... The more I read on that, the less I'm convinced that this would be of a great benefit. May be it's just me. See, it would take a few years if the keiki actually survives, develops roots and finally starts growing.... Wouldn't it be "better" to have an established plant that has more capacity for blooming, like yours?

Sorry, I take it back. I just re-read your post and now recall that yours suffered a crown rot. So the only salvation for it is indeed - a keiki, you're right.

Well, I hope it's still been a great learning experience! I agree with Catt, perhaps a bit of light and warmth might stimulate it unless the Phal is waiting for the spring time. Also, also, how about trying to add some seaweed or K-L-N to the watering?

Keep us posted with how it goes, Nicolene!

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Last edited by rlilia; 12-18-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 12-19-2012, 07:04 PM
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Sorry Nicolene, bin it and go and buy a new pretty Phal.for your Christmas present. I have been through all this before, I hate to seem harsh, but you have tried to save it.
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Old 12-19-2012, 11:29 PM
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Hi Nicolene! I wanted to chime in here, because I had a similar issue with a NOID phal I got earlier this year. When i got it home, it started to go downhill pretty quickly, and upon checking i noticed it had crown rot. I had some old dental tools that I used to scrape out the rotted parts, then i watered it with seaweed extract every 2 weeks (1 tblsp per gallon). It had great roots, just like yours. A couple of months later, it started a keiki, and now the baby is bigger than mama with 2 spikes!!!


Keiki on the left, mama plant on the right


The keiki's roots are covering the rotted crown



You can see the keiki in the front with its two spikes and mama in the back still alive and kickin'.
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Old 12-20-2012, 02:42 AM
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I'm really thinking seaweed extract is the missing ingredient in my case. Once I get settled down after the holidays, I think I am going to pick some up and start the seaweed therapy. I refuse to give up until there is nothing green left. Thank you for the encouragement Brigitte!
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
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Sorry Nicolene, bin it and go and buy a new pretty Phal.for your Christmas present. I have been through all this before, I hate to seem harsh, but you have tried to save it.
I completely disagree.

Nicolene's latest photo shows the remaining leaves look healthy and with good roots. I think she is up to the challenge!

Head for the bin? Absolutely not.

Head for the store? Well, maybe to buy it some company. We send flowers to people in hospital, right??
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Old 12-20-2012, 08:09 PM
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I agree, if it was going to die, I think it would have done so already. Defnitely try the seaweed. My phals did nothing until I began giving them seaweed. I love that stuff!

And Brigitte- awesome pictures!
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Old 07-17-2013, 11:34 PM
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Any updates on your orchid? Did it grow a kieke? I really hope so with all the love & care you've put into this guy!!
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