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Old 07-14-2013, 11:28 AM
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Cattleya aclandiae in bloom, but with issues...

Just opened while I was out on a bit of vaca, looks ok & should open a bit more (hopefully)



& now for the issue...
I treated with Bayer 3-in-1 before I left, but I'm not sure what I'm dealing with. Anyone know what this might be? General yellowing of leaves & 2 have dropped...





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Old 07-14-2013, 11:33 AM
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Forgot to mention this is in bright light sitting on leca, perlite, orchiata mix (dries quickly).
I know this species likes to dry real quick & sit above the media on the high side of Catt light & high humidity, which I try to provide for it... R/H can dip into the mid 60s sometimes mid-day.
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:51 AM
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Looks like the leaves are dying off naturally. Catts are very forgiving when it comes to watering and humidity. I just use the orchiata and perlite mix in clay pots for my catts and the seem very happy. In the winter in my home the humidity will go down to about 25% and I have a gallon humidifier that works just fine. I also put a little extra water in the humidity trays.

Orchids are tougher and more forgiving/adaptable than you think
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:53 PM
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yea, but it's a lot to most leaves that are yellow/orange & with those dark black pepper spots I'm suspecting something else may be at play (just not sure what).
From what I've read the C. aclandiae likes higher light than even most Catts, needs to dry quickly (nothing new there) & typically ride higher in their saddle (on top of their media).
Plus, the way the leaves are curling up on themselves so awkwardly makes me wonder if I'm not able to give it the humidity it needs (80s+ where it's from; 65+ here).
I plan on reapplying the 3-in-1 again in a week making it 2 weeks btwn applications (?)
Any ideas on if it's a pest of some sort or cultural tips for improving would be greatly appreciated.

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Old 07-14-2013, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbroome View Post
yea, but it's a lot to most leaves that are yellow/orange & with those dark black pepper spots I'm suspecting something else may be at play (just not sure what).
From what I've read the C. aclandiae likes higher light than even most Catts, needs to dry quickly (nothing new there) & typically ride higher in their saddle (on top of their media).
Plus, the way the leaves are curling up on themselves so awkwardly makes me wonder if I'm not able to give it the humidity it needs (80s+ where it's from; 65+ here).
I plan on reapplying the 3-in-1 again in a week making it 2 weeks btwn applications (?)
Any ideas on if it's a pest of some sort or cultural tips for improving would be greatly appreciated.

dbroome

I would stop using the Bayer 3+1. Maybe doing more harm than good. I had some catt leaves that curled and it was b/c of not enough water. As hot as it's been you may have to water more than normal. My orchids that are inside this time of year I will often water a couple times a week. The ones outdoors I can water them everyday sometimes 2X a day. It's gonna be in the 90's the next few days so I will be watering more often. I do see some wrinkling on the leaves in the 3rd picture.
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:01 PM
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I'm thinking it may be fungal. Have a look at: Orchid Diseases
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:04 PM
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Ok, yea I've only applied it once or twice & I do wish it had some more viable roots, so maybe I'll water it a tad more & see if it responds. But you don't think those spots are anything to worry about? It did come from a FL grower, so I doubt it's getting knocked on its heels up here in Bahstin with our "heat"... :P
thx
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catt Mandu View Post
I'm thinking it may be fungal. Have a look at: Orchid Diseases
Thx Catt Mandu, you can believe I've bookmarked that link as soon as I came aboard the Geek train (probably from another one of your comments no doubt), so thx for that.
It's tricky to reduce heat, humidity and maintain light requirements. Air flow has never been a problem here for me. I'll include avoiding wetting the leaves in my initial attempts to remedy the situation & if I don't get a response in a week or two I'll treat for fungi.

thx again!
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Old 07-14-2013, 03:33 PM
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Fungus was also my first thought seeing the black marks. If the fungicide in the Bayer 3-in-1 isn't knocking it out you might need something stronger to totally get rid of it. Some folks swear that salicylic acid (basically aspirin), which is a big player in 'immune response' of many plants, helps orchids fight off some fungi and bacteria on their own. I don't know if it actually works but my family botanist thinks it not implausible, and aspirin is cheaper and far less toxic than the heavy-hitting fungicides. Boosting calcium is also supposed to improve fungal resistance long-term; only new growths get the benefits because Ca is relatively immobile within plants.

Nice flower! I don't think it's aclandiae, though, the shape and patterning are pretty different and the plant bigger than aclandiae normally gets. Looks more like tigrina/leopoldii or a hybrid thereof (maybe tigrina x aclandiae?), but I don't know this group too well.
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Old 07-14-2013, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnathaniel View Post
Fungus was also my first thought seeing the black marks. If the fungicide in the Bayer 3-in-1 isn't knocking it out you might need something stronger to totally get rid of it. Some folks swear that salicylic acid (basically aspirin), which is a big player in 'immune response' of many plants, helps orchids fight off some fungi and bacteria on their own. I don't know if it actually works but my family botanist thinks it not implausible, and aspirin is cheaper and far less toxic than the heavy-hitting fungicides. Boosting calcium is also supposed to improve fungal resistance long-term; only new growths get the benefits because Ca is relatively immobile within plants.

Nice flower! I don't think it's aclandiae, though, the shape and patterning are pretty different and the plant bigger than aclandiae normally gets. Looks more like tigrina/leopoldii or a hybrid thereof (maybe tigrina x aclandiae?), but I don't know this group too well.
thx gnat
it's not a very big flower at all compared to my other Catt hybrids, but I'm no expert in this species, so if the form is off it's off, I would defer on that (however disappointing it is).

mmmmaybe I'll head over to the 2013 project thread, I'll brb :P

PS I do alternate Ray's K-Lite, which has a good Ca #, so maybe that will help the new growth I do have going forward. Still, a comparison plant wouldn't be the worst thing that could happen

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Old 07-14-2013, 06:19 PM
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David, I'm not an expert, but I did notice you have them out with a couple of tomato plants, which love full sun. I don't think any Catt loves truly full sun, i.e., 6-8 hours direct sun. Especially in high summer, less than a month from the solstice. Even in Maine, that's pretty intense. Maybe it really is too much for it? How long has it been out there?

PS - this is kind of odd that you posted this - earlier today I was looking at one of my vintage Orchid Digest mags (1982), saw this plant and fell in love!
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:24 PM
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I don't know what the black marks are. Nor do I know much about the varieties of aclandiae. I bought a tiny little seedling and mounted it bare-root on cork. You are right to consider a nutrition deficiency. It is a good possibility. Good luck!
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Old 07-14-2013, 06:48 PM
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David, I'm not an expert, but I did notice you have them out with a couple of tomato plants, which love full sun. I don't think any Catt loves truly full sun, i.e., 6-8 hours direct sun. Especially in high summer, less than a month from the solstice. Even in Maine, that's pretty intense. Maybe it really is too much for it? How long has it been out there?

PS - this is kind of odd that you posted this - earlier today I was looking at one of my vintage Orchid Digest mags (1982), saw this plant and fell in love!
Ah, it's just getting some evening light while I'm on the back porch listening to the Sox on the radio and the jazz band in the park down below overlooking Boston Harbor enjoying my wife's awesome garden



We're summering! :rofl:
It goes back in the grow camp where it lives most of the time up top. Gets early sun until about 1130, then bright until about 530ish evening on again.



& now, since its lineage is in question I'm going to have to get another... sheesh!
great back story on it btw, huh? where did you find back issues of the OD article (link)?
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:13 PM
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Hoo, boy - direct light from late morn to early evening is a LOT!! (Take it from this shade grower, who, in the early years of gardening thought 3 hours of midday sun was full sun. It's not!) Afternoon sun is especially harsh. It's getting prairie sun, my friend. Hope some of the experts can chime in, but I really have a hunch it's getting too much sun.

Anyway . . . I bid on those ODs on EBay and got 12 (I think) for $25 about 4 months ago. I'm ready to let 'em go 'cause I already copied everything of interest. (Yeah, yeah, copyright. Doubt they'll arrest me for copying stuff printed the year I was married!! ) If you or anyone else is interested, you can have them for $20.

David, you seem like a very knowledgeable grower. I know you will figure this out!! Cheers!
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:14 PM
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BTW, your wife's growing area is beautiful!! I do jazz in the evening outside, too, although mine's not live. Love it.
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Old 07-14-2013, 10:29 PM
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Sry, wasn't clear. It gets early morning sunshine & then is in bright shade until about 530ish when the sun is low. No midday sun for my 'chids
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Old 07-14-2013, 11:58 PM
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Got it - that sounds reasonable for a Catt. Which leaves you back to square 1. Wish I could help!
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:30 AM
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It could be the leaves are dying off naturally. I doubt the Bayers would cause what is going on.
As for sun, my catts are getting full sun from sunrise till about 11:30 and then again from about 4 pm til dark. Not a problem at all if you acclimate the plants to the sun. Been doing this for years and I've had maybe a handful of leaves that got sunburned. But it was one leaf on a plant and the plants are fine. So I have to disagree with those who say hours of sunlight is bad. If you do it right, take the time to acclimate, the plants do fine.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:41 PM
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The photo of the underside of the leaf looks like sooty mold fungus to me. I would clean the leaves and keep using the 3 in 1, if it were my plant.

Last edited by slc; 07-15-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 07-15-2013, 02:42 PM
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p.s. You and your wife have a BEAUTIFUL place. ^_^
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:18 PM
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Syndywindy, we had already deduced that the amount of sun was probably fine for dbroome's Catts. But, since you brought the issue of sun up again, I think you proved my point that late afternoon sun is not good for a Catt when you say yours "had some sunburned leaves". That the plant is still OK only means that it was on the low end of "too much sun" range, but "too much sun", nonetheless, as evidenced by the sunburned leaves. A plant will always try to surmount difficulties, by why place it in a difficult situation in the first place? Cheers!
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:34 PM
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I'm not really sure what's wrong with the plant, but I'd have to agree with Nathaniel that its not aclandiae. It seems to be similar to C. bicolor or even schilleriana. I hope you can figure out what's wrong with it though!
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:23 AM
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Black vine, the afternoon sun my plants get is not enough to cause sun burn. My cause of sunburn was due to not acclimating a plant enough to be able to handle the sun that it gets early in the morning. Period. And that was my fault. My plants are getting sun most of the day right now, and even in this heat are just fine. It's a matter of the acclimating and being sure they are watered well to stay cool. Plus one sunburned leaf on a plant does not make a failure! The couple plants that had sunburned leaves all have good root systems, new growth and are quite happy being outdoors in the sun and humidity. I'm not concerned about them at all b
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackvine View Post
, I think you proved my point that late afternoon sun is not good for a Catt when you say yours "had some sunburned leaves". That the plant is still OK only means that it was on the low end of "too much sun" range, but "too much sun", nonetheless, as evidenced by the sunburned leaves. A plant will always try to surmount difficulties, by why place it in a difficult situation in the first place? Cheers!
I also have to disagree w/your statement of afternoon sun being bad for catts. In nature many catts are sitting right in the open sun...in the tropics. And, not just catts...many other orchids. I have catts in full sun...all afternoon. I have a Max tenuifolia that sits in full sun into the early afternoon. I have Ctsm in full sun...for most of the day. I think what Synda was saying is that you must acclimate them to that level...can't just plop them into full sun after having been under lower light conditions prior. Naturally, not all orchids are going to appreciate that level of sun but to say that it's bad for all is incorrect.

My plants are under HO T5s all Winter and I don't have to do much acclimating but someone growing on a windowsill for the Winter better ease into direct sun or risk burning.

Edit-- I said Lycaste...meant Catasetum. OOPS.
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:22 AM
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If this was C. aclandiae, it would be on the higher end for light needs. I have this next to the brassavolas, C. dowiana, C. schoederae....
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Old 07-16-2013, 10:50 AM
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I also have to disagree w/your statement of afternoon sun being bad for catts. In nature many catts are sitting right in the open sun...in the tropics.
Got it - with two in agreement on the sun issue, I stand corrected. I'm really glad there is a forum like this because, as a "kind of" newbie - growing since last September - I can say that even the best books will mostly give generalities. It takes personal experience by real growers - hobbyists and pros - to get at the truth!
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Old 07-16-2013, 06:52 PM
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Blackvine, I saw in a prior post you had mentioned that you have never tried growing your orchids outdoors. I suggest giving it a try, this summer heat and humidity is just a wonderful way to perk up any orchid that may be languishing. And its not just because two if us are in agreement, many orchid growers get their plants outside for the summer. I know a judge with 800 plants, has a greenhouse but puts them outside for the summer. I get mine out as early in the season as possible(mid-late April) and leave them out as late as possible; late October and into early November if the temps allow. The longer I can leave them out the better they do.
Even some of my lower light orchids are getting direct sun and there is no issues as they get acclimated early.
Give it a try and see for yourself.
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Old 07-17-2013, 10:00 AM
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Love the flower on this catt! Good growing! Good luck on the fungal issues!
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