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Old 11-25-2010, 04:29 PM
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Ahh! Stubborn black spots not going away :(

I bought this catt a month ago, and it had some small brown spots at first. I didn't think too much about them, but now, the spots have gotten out of hand, and they've "grouped" together into brown patches.

I treated with hydrogen peroxide. That didn't work, so I treated with an organic fungicide from HD. That didn't work, so now I'm using Daconil. It looks like the spots are appearing on a few other leaves too, even though I've been applying fungicide to almost all the leaves. This is the first time I've had such trouble with black spots. The organic fungicide successfully treated black rot on my phal and on my onc.

I've cut off a few other leaf tips and applied cinnamon, but the cut area is beginning to brown (maybe the fungus got there too?). Now I feel nervous about cutting leaves.



Currently 65 deg, 40% humidity. The leaves are close to an air vent so there's air movement every now and then.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:45 AM
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I haven't had an issue like this on a Catt, so I don't want to say what it is or may be and give you wrong info. However, I think maybe try increasing the air movement. I know you said near a vent and every now and then, but try making the air movement constant. That might help.
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Old 11-26-2010, 10:43 AM
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What you are seeing is dead or dying tissue. Treatment is not going to cause it to go away.

If that was my plant, I'd cut off the affected parts - with a margin of "clean" tissue to make sure I "got it all" - and dip the open would in cinnamon to dry it out and prevent another, opportunistic fungal infection.

Between that and the Daconil, all should be well.
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Old 11-27-2010, 12:15 AM
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Thanks, I finally got the courage to cut away the affected parts. I've cut off 4 leaf tips in total.

I'm turning on the heat in my house. Hopefully warm + drier = less fungus.

Also, on another leaf of the same plant, there are some quite different spots. I've never encountered these spots before--one is a circle and the other is a dot with a half circle. Does it look suspicious enough for the possibility of a virus?

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Old 01-20-2011, 01:15 PM
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I'd like to bump this to see if anyone has an answer to Orchidaddict's last question about those circular black spots?
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Old 01-20-2011, 01:46 PM
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No answer, but I noticed a similar, sunken circular black spot on an otherwise-healthy phal leaf today, so I'll be looking at this thread as well as searching back for phal leaf damage.
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:01 PM
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I'm no expert on virus but I don't see any of the usual virus signs w/those spots. Looks more bacterial and/or mechanical to me.

Darned spots! It's one of the reasons I stopped growing most Oncids and absolutely the only reason I don't grow zygos anymore. Can't stand all the crazy spots and dots.

Hopefully someone a little more helpful will be along soon.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:15 AM
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Thanks for the bump. Actually, you're right Katrina, the circular spots eventually became the black smudges as shown in my first post. The transformation was pretty rapid, so I ended up cutting off the bad parts and applying Draconil. Yesterday I saw another black patch on another leaf, and I cut that off. I've been keeping the plant isolated and right next to an air vent. The previous grower of the plant must have had some sort of fungal problem in their greenhouse, and I've been very nervous that the spots will transmit to my other plants, which I've kept clean so far. So far, it's contained.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:41 AM
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Speaking of zygos, here's my zygo. It had the "oncidium" sort of leaf spot that looked unsightly, so I cut off the leaf tips. Catt leaves are thick and are rounded at the tips, so any cuts don't look natural, but since zygo leaves are papery, I was able to re-shape the leaves so the cuts aren't too conspicuous. Fortunately, cutting off the spotted leaf tips solved the problem.

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Old 01-21-2011, 03:15 AM
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Not sure if this is helpful but it looks very similar to Pithium or Phytopthora damage on azalea leaves..
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Old 01-21-2011, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidaddict789 View Post
Speaking of zygos, here's my zygo. It had the "oncidium" sort of leaf spot that looked unsightly, so I cut off the leaf tips. Catt leaves are thick and are rounded at the tips, so any cuts don't look natural, but since zygo leaves are papery, I was able to re-shape the leaves so the cuts aren't too conspicuous. Fortunately, cutting off the spotted leaf tips solved the problem.

I'm glad it worked for you. Unfortunately, for me, more spots came along. I could never stop the process and the plants got ugly. If there's one thing I hate...it's ugly leaves. I loved the flowers and I really miss the fragrance. Keep up the good work w/yours!!
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:55 PM
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It is a bacterial damage and you should treat it as it. I dont think Daconil will take care of it. Cut the affected leaves and treat with bactericide. Good luck!
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Old 01-23-2011, 12:16 AM
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Hmm what's a good bactericide? I've heard about physan and after doing some Googling, I discovered that it's called a "fungicide/bactericide/algaecide," but then I read some stuff that people posted and they said it's not very strong.

There are still several small spots that I've been eyeing cautiously, fearing that they'd suddenly erupt into those ugly massive patches someday...

And Katrina, I totally understand! I've oncs that spot so easily that I must resist the urge to...uh, paint over the leaves with green paint.
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Old 01-23-2011, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
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And Katrina, I totally understand! I've oncs that spot so easily that I must resist the urge to...uh, paint over the leaves with green paint.
Paint the leaves? There you go...your "it made me millions" idea...orchid make-up.
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Old 01-23-2011, 09:16 AM
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I have found that all bugs are not visible to the naked-eye.. If you have a 10x or 15x loop, take a close look at the leaves with very good light. You may be surprised by what you can find.

Often the problem that you see is the result of tissue damage caused by feeding insects or mites. the bacteria or fungus is secondary.

For example; I recently took in a friends problem phal. The leave damage was similar to what your photos show. Studying the leaves with my loop I found red mites on the underside of the leaves. With just the one plant the solution is easy, hose the plant off and knock the pests off of the leaves.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:46 AM
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what about this one? it has spots as well, but I love it... I wouldn't want to lose it... The new growths are less spotty... I also have one odontocidium that I will show you as soon as I take a pic of it...



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Old 01-27-2011, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orchidaddict789 View Post
Hmm what's a good bactericide? I've heard about physan and after doing some Googling, I discovered that it's called a "fungicide/bactericide/algaecide," but then I read some stuff that people posted and they said it's not very strong.
the strongest is bleach. So who dare to use it?
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:42 AM
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Does anybody know the answer to my problem? Is that plant curable or not?
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Old 01-31-2011, 04:50 AM
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no, that problem seem to be common among oncidium family orchid. On the other hand , some virused oncidium do have black spot. The plant will grow and flower but it will not go away. In the mean time do not put them together with your other plant.
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Old 01-31-2011, 11:52 AM
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to bad... I like that oncidium a lot, because it smells great and it flowers abundantly... I wanted to cure it... I have cut the most infected leaves today and I hope that is not a virus, and that it will go away... in a case that is spreads again on young shoots, I will have no other option except to throw it away, since those black spots look really ugly and make plant look less attractive...
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Old 01-31-2011, 10:21 PM
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U need to apply Fungicide if your environment is encouraging fungus to grow.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:02 AM
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Yes, I think I will, but in the spring... right now, all my orchids are in the house, so I dont want to spray them with fungicide inside... but once I move them outside, I will apply a fungicide!
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:07 AM
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There is a more eco-friendly fungicide that I'm trying right now...it's made w/Rosemary Oil. It's safe to use inside, safe around pets and kids. You might try looking for something like that. I don't spray in place at the shelf...I take the plant to the laundry room (giant sink area) and spray lightly then I pour some into the medium. Once the leaves are dry I return it to the shelf. It's too soon for me to know if it'll work but I figure it's worth a try otherwise I'm going to lose one of my fav bulbos.

Might be worth a try if you can find it.
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:28 AM
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Recently i solve the problem created by neem oil - disinfectant. I realized i get less bacteria problem if i apply disinfectant after neem oil application. I also try physan which is less toxic than most fungicides.
I believe those black dots on oncidium will not go away despite having fungicides . I don't know what are those , one thing i know it tested negative for virus. So I just bear with the black dots .
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Old 02-01-2011, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
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Recently i solve the problem created by neem oil - disinfectant. I realized i get less bacteria problem if i apply disinfectant after neem oil application. I also try physan which is less toxic than most fungicides.
I believe those black dots on oncidium will not go away despite having fungicides . I don't know what are those , one thing i know it tested negative for virus. So I just bear with the black dots .
Well, I really hope those are not virus manifestations! when we are talking about fungicides, how about medicinal alcohol/ permanganate and similar stuff? can I use those when I, lets say, clean their leaves for example with a tissue or something... If I can use those, what is the best way to use?
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:14 PM
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Well, I really hope those are not virus manifestations! when we are talking about fungicides, how about medicinal alcohol/ permanganate and similar stuff? can I use those when I, lets say, clean their leaves for example with a tissue or something... If I can use those, what is the best way to use?
I suggest you try Physan or Consan . They are available in nursery . Locally , they sold it as a disinfectant for cleaning table top as such. The active ingredients is
n-alkyl dimethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides and n-alkyl dimethyl ethyl benzyl ammonium chlorides
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Old 04-13-2011, 09:42 AM
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Okay I searched for this on here... my Cattleya had similiar dark spots just on the tip of one (about an inch or two of it) then on the tip of a smaller leaf (less than an inch). I trimmed it all off.
Would if have anything to do with where it is located? All of my Orchids are on my back patio (which has lots of air movement and its protected from direct sunlight) but my Cattleya is in a pot that doesnt have a hole at the bottom of the pot but there are many holes on the side, also it was in a back corner of my patio on a shelve while my other plants are on a table right next to my screens (on the patio). I moved it to the tabe, although its not "crowded" there isnt much room on the table so idealy I dont want to leave it there.
Any HELP please!!??
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Old 04-13-2011, 10:06 PM
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It's common for oncidium and their intergenerics to have black spots. They're usually not a problem, though occasionally they are a sign of fungal infections (if the spots suddenly surge in number) or viruses. I wouldn't worry too much about them.

Also, NewGrower, I think it's best to put your orchid in a pot that has holes on the bottom so the excess water can drain out. Extra holes on the sides are always a plus. Catts like bright light, so don't be afraid to give it some morning sun or dappled shade. Mine get direct afternoon sun, though they are indoors. Just be sure to gradually acclimate the plant to brighter light.

Maybe there was water on the leaves at night? Sometimes leaf spots can turn up out of nowhere. Just cut off the bad parts.
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Old 04-17-2011, 09:59 PM
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I just posted about my Catt Deanna Sanders "Indiana" It sounds like the spots on my leaves with the exception of the yellowing spot at the base on the larger leaf. That has a dry thinning + tiny pin size black spots.

katrina Did you order your Rosemary/Neem oil online? I am thinking that I would much rather use that than some of the lethal stuff. Not crazy about deadly to pets and humans fungicides.
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:10 PM
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I just posted about my Catt Deanna Sanders "Indiana" It sounds like the spots on my leaves with the exception of the yellowing spot at the base on the larger leaf. That has a dry thinning + tiny pin size black spots.

katrina Did you order your Rosemary/Neem oil online? I am thinking that I would much rather use that than some of the lethal stuff. Not crazy about deadly to pets and humans fungicides.
If u do u don't want fungicides the neem and trico shield seem to be the only choice left .. U can also search troco
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Old 04-17-2011, 11:23 PM
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I just posted about my Catt Deanna Sanders "Indiana" It sounds like the spots on my leaves with the exception of the yellowing spot at the base on the larger leaf. That has a dry thinning + tiny pin size black spots.

katrina Did you order your Rosemary/Neem oil online? I am thinking that I would much rather use that than some of the lethal stuff. Not crazy about deadly to pets and humans fungicides.
If u do u don't want fungicides the neem and trico shield seem to be the only choice left .. U can also search Tricodermal fungus but it take patience and experience to use it .

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Old 04-18-2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
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katrina Did you order your Rosemary/Neem oil online? I am thinking that I would much rather use that than some of the lethal stuff. Not crazy about deadly to pets and humans fungicides.
It's Indoor Pharm...I got it at a show last Fall but you can buy it here...
Indoor Pharm :: Pharm Solutions Inc.

I got it in the Fall but didn't see a need for it until Jan. I was using it on a Bulb sulawesii and unfortunately, the plant did not survive. It proceeded to get worse and worse. It's possible my problem was not fungal but bacterial so I can't say it was the fault of the spray. It's sometimes hard to tell the difference between fungal vs bacterial issues. The product smells really bad and quite frankly, I couldn't stand it so I stopped using it and switched to pouring hydrogen peroxide through the pot at times intervals.

So, did I not use it long enough? Was my problem something other than fungal? Does the product work or not? I can't say for certain. I have enough left that should something else pop up, I'll likely try it again. Hopefully when the plants are outside because while it's suppose to be safe...to my nose, it stinks.

Side note of interest....the product says it's also good for fungus gnats and I can tell you...it does nothing for fungus gnats. I don't have many but I do have a few and this plant was one that had them...the product didn't seem to bother them one iota.
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