Sphagnum moss

[Forever-mango]

Wow, didnt know the moss is that important. Now i just want to rip off all my bark and use moss. But it seems to be quite expensive here.

I have read that water orchids planted in moss has to be placed in a dish so the moss can soak up the water from the bottom up. And water from directly above will cause bacteria slim to grow which will block the breathing pores of the moss.

My mum also read in an Taiwanese book that when planted with moss, you must repot the orchid each year. Is this a fact or myth?

[fred]

I water my chids in sphag both ways
I mist the top with a pressure sprayer and I also soak the pots to let them soak up some water ( rain water )
if the moss is packed to tight one might have that problem

with re-potting it all depends on your conditions sphagnum moss does not like direct sun light or very high humidity this will cause the sphagnum moss to rot
one can soon tell if the sphagnum moss has gone off it has a sour smell

I would not suggest taking all of your chids out of bark and put them into sphag
I would suggest to learn how to use sphag first.

[awaxa]

Originally Posted by tansyflower

When I first potted the seedlings, it said to keep the sphag moist but not wet. How do I stop them soaking up too much water??

Hi tansyflower,
In regards to the control of water when using sphag on seedlings:
After soaking and cleaning, one must squeeze as much water out of it as possible.
Seperate the sphag to make it light and not tight.
Wrap the seedlings in the sphag LOOSLY.
The trick here is loosly
When the sphag is loose, regardless how much water you apply, most will drain out.
If the moss is packed too close, it will tend to hold more of the water.
Holding more water may not be a bad thing either, but for seedlings it is surely bad.
If however you are located in a very windy and dry environment, you should not have too much problems with the wetter sphag.
For me, sphag is best used for plants that do not require drying out before watering, but it must also be able to drain properly especially for the seedlings.

[awaxa]

Originally Posted by Hummer344

All of this is very interesting and I am tempted to try spag in a plant or two & I am one person that is against spag. NOW, I will tell everyone that for the causual home buyer that receives an orchid as a gift, or buys one because they are SOOOO beautiful, if they are planted in spag, more than likely the plant will die because of over watering. When I do my class on orchids, to beginners, I have them bring their problem orchids in & those is sphag have the most problems. Sphag to the beginner is a killer, sphag to the hobbiest, like most of us here, is a matter of what works for you.

I tend to agree with you.
As hobbiests we will surely notice trouble early and will tend to make changes earlier than the beginner.
We will more than likely have a growing area for several other types of orchids and may relocate plants accordinly.
The chances that a plant in sphag with the hobbiest to die will be reduced but not eliminated totally.

[awaxa]

Originally Posted by LadyV

Many orchids sold here in the UK have their roots tightly wrapped in Sphagnum moss and nothing else. I always remove the Sphagnum and repot using my own orchid compost mixes with just a little added Sphagnum. My husband is a carnivorous plant enthusiast and always uses Sphagnum when potting up his plants, therefore we always have a good quantity of home-grown and dried Sphagnum. He has asked me to remind those of you who are unable to locate Sphagnum, live or dried, that there is a shredded, dried Sphagnum moss from New Zealnd that is sold in compressed blocks called Supersphag. To revive, just add rain water and each block will expand greatly.The compressed, dried blocks are easy to store too. For more information, see: Supersphag

I hope that helps,
V.

Seedlings do not require drying out before watering, hence many growers use the sphag to keep the seedlings roots moist while growing.
Depending on the type of orchid, for instance, cattleyas, require proper drainage and drying out before watering out when they are approaching mature stage in order to grow and bloom properly. One will then have to pot the plants accordingly.

[plucker]

I find with repotting Cats that a little spag on the top section around the roots helps the plant establish quicker to the new media. I also use volcanic rock lower and styrophome. The plants do dry and drain freely.
Like it has been mentioned, the spag must be packed lightly so it airs and dries out. I find I do have to keep an eye on it as it grows and can need thining at times.
Phals enjoy the biscuit in the middle of the pot with spag, and seem to handle the spag packed a little tighter.

All my spag is soaked in a weak fertilizer mix which also helps things grow along.

[aviator.nic]

Wow, all this information has tempted me to try sphag to get a cym psbulb going. I live in NORTHERN BC, Canda and we have acres and acres of Sphag. It all grows in fairly acidic conditions (bogs) and prefers cool temperatures. We have at least 3 different species and they all tolerate -40 (Celcius) in the winter and up to 30 (C) in the summer. It is buried by snow 6+ months of the year, but still seems to grow like crazy as long as it has moisture. It can tolerate being underwater for a few weeks, but definitely prefers being moist-wet...not underwater. I'm definitely going to bring some home and give it a try! thanks!

[~K8~]

I use sphagnum moss as a thin top layer. I do not allow the sphagnum to touch leaves- I push it away, I learned the hard way leaves dont like soggy sphagnum touching them. I refer to this layer for watering needs. If the sphagnum is dry I water, if the sphagnum is moist I dont. So far so so good. In 12 of 13 (Phalaenopsis, Cattleya, Paphiopedilum, Oncidium, Cymbidium, 1 unknown) I have new growth, roots, shoots, blooms. I dont know if this is the right thing to do but it seems to be working for me.

Just wanted to add I dont think my Oncidium (I hope to correctly identify it soon) probably wouldnt survive without sphagnum, its so very dainty with the tiniest aerial roots.

[Bolero]

I have fantastic root systems on my Pleuro's as a result of using Sphagnum Moss, I recommend it for those above everything else. I have two bulbo's with a mixture of moss and bark and that also works well.

[PhalPal]

I've learned that just about every medium has it's rightful application given the correct environment. I have used them every one of them in various concoctions and like them all for different reasons.

[benetay]

Just a thought, does it affect or degrades the Sphag moss when it's covered with algae from too much light?

Cheers!

[fred]

I have to question if it is Alger or is the sphag growing ?
as regards to too much light one has to try to picture where sphagnum moss is grown
it loves filtered light I have seen it growing on rocks that get covered with snow in winter ( I have even been stupid enough to try and get fresh sphag in winter.. yep you guessed it frozen solid )
here we go I just found these sites DPIW - Sphagnum Moss - Sustainable Use and Management
What Is Sphagnum Moss?
Parks & Wildlife Service - Sphagnum Moss
Sphagnum and Water
http://www.fpa.tas.gov.au/fileadmin/...6_Sphagnum.pdf

I hope this post helps

[benetay]

I'm pretty certain it's algae since this time of the year the sun really heat things up and cause a lot of algae on my mounts and pots.

Thanks for the link!!! Wonderful.

Cheers!

[koshki]

This is very interesting. I just bought some NZ sphag today, and I think I'll pop some in water to see what happens. I bought it at Brooke's recommendation for her masdies, even though I'm still leary about it. Thanks all for this...very informative!

[-k-]

Because of this thread I went out today and pick some up to help tend to an ailing phal, it was a rescue and is on the mend. Having read this I decided it's worth a try to help speed the recovery of the plant, so thank you for posting this; I will post future updates with any progess.
Tkx!

[OrchidJeff]

I am not at home right now, so I can't tell you the exact type of material I am using in repotting my larger orchids, but I am using a combination of the fir chips and a a moss, I put a thin layer of moss on the bottom of the new plastic pot, then the chips, again most, chips again then a thin layer of moss on top, So! anything better I can do...I'll post pics of that also when I can

[OrchidJeff]

I am transplanting the Orchids I have that are not in bloom from I think there 2.5 to 3 inch pots into 4 inch pots.

[Julez]

Thanks everyone for contributing to this discussion. Some very interesting and varied points. Great pictures!

Sorry OrchidJeff, I dont have any answers for you, so I will leave that to the Wiseones

[fred]

I just took a few photos of what sphagnum moss looks like
notice the length and the fluffiness
if one has a close look it has not even been cleaned yet
Tasmanian Sphagnum Moss

[AprilsOrchids]

Originally Posted by fred

what I have done is I went outside and found one of my chids growing in sphag that needed water
you might not be able to see the difference between the two attachments but the first is sphag then needs water and the same one that has been watered I can see its moist

can you see the difference ?

the watered sphag (on the right, right?) looks darker, fuller and maybe a little greener, I think.

very, very interesting.

thx, fred,
April

[AprilsOrchids]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

I've learned that just about every medium has it's rightful application given the correct environment. I have used them every one of them in various concoctions and like them all for different reasons.

this is what i am learning from reading around in the posts on this board.

i don't have any hands-on experience to rely on yet; but it feels good to be filing all this stuff away in my 64k for when i am going to start re-potting and mixing my own medium for different ochids i just acquired X my watering style, which tends to the side of less.

of course, i will be re-reading and asking questions when those times come.

thx everyone,
April

[AprilsOrchids]

hello again,

April here with that dwarf phal keiki again.

The baby still looks healthy, but the top of the new medium still seems bone dry. The plant's skewer is always dry at the top third or so....

Q; Would it be a good use of sphag to put about an inch of it around the top to help keep the moisture up higher in the medium while this baby's roots are only up there (roots stick out of the medium and go down into the medium about 3/4 to 1')?

Q; also, i've moved this phal into my east window, in my shower alcove, (the window is in the shower/bathtub stall); thinking that the humidity in bathroom from daily showers, couldn't hurt? does anyone else keep their orchids in their bathrooms for the humidity?

thx,
April

[Sandrilene]

I haven`t been using sphag but i may start i think the humidity in this place is really low and the plants seem to dry out much faster here. roots don`t seem too happy to be watered more frequently either. would sphag help with that?

[kmarch]

Sphag could help with that Sandrilene. There are a couple of ways you might consider using it. Either:
1) putting a layer of it on the top of your mix. Some other orchidgeek members do this and report good results.
2) mixing some finely choppoed sphagnum moss into the potting mix.

Either route you choose you will probably have to watch to see how fast the mix dries out and you might have to alter your watering routine.

[Ladyofthelakes]

My goodness a ton of info here. I was jumping up and down thinking of the tons of moss that grows in our woods at our cabin retreat. Mostly Northern White Cedar grows back at the lake. I have enjoyed looking at all the different kinds.

But as Kevin indicated the use of collecting and using it should be well thought out.

Snakes my absolute least favorite creature. Though no poisonous snakes live here on the island, I would be well advised to collect before our snakes arrive next month.

Thank you Fred for this informative post

Vivienne

[Shannara]

I don't use sphag in my collection simply because it can carry sporotrichosis. I used to work in a greenhouse and contracted that nasty spore during a repot on a customers plant. Between all the pills, dr visits, and damaged cartilage in my arm...I just can't justify using it and risking re-exposure. Otherwise I would use it on many of my mounted plants.

I would wear gloves if you using sphag just to be on the safe side.

Shann~

[dounoharm]

thats a good thing to know, thanks for the info and the heads up on sphag...i dont like it much anyway....thanks shannara

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by dounoharm

thats a good thing to know, thanks for the info and the heads up on sphag...i dont like it much anyway....thanks shannara

Granted it is rare to contract the spore, but I was the 2nd employee to get it. In total from the time I showed symptoms and my last Dr. visit it was probably two years. Never handle sphagnum with open wounds..even a paper cut. And if something in the medium pokes you and breaks the skin during the handling process, thoroughly disinfect it.

HTH

Shann~

[fred]

yep that is good to know
thanks for letting is know
I must admit thou I have been collecting sphagnum moss for about eight years now
I have never had any health problems
I used to collect sphag in summer but not after encountering the snake
leaches love the stuff as well
a couple of weeks ago I went for a drive just to see how the sphagnum moss handled the summer heat I have never seen the sphag so dry looking like I have this summer
even in places that don't get any sun at all
I have better looking sphag in my shed

some useful links
IPCC information sheets - Bog Moss - Sphagnum
Sphagnum cristatum - Growing Native Plants

[Shannara]

Originally Posted by fred

I must admit thou I have been collecting sphagnum moss for about eight years now
I have never had any health problems

Well, three things have to happen for you to get sporotrichosis. First, the spore has to exist in the sphagnum you are handling. The spore is not always in the sphag. Second, you would have to have an open would or be punctured while handling it. Puncture wounds are the worst because it pushes the spore right into your blood stream. 3rd, it would have to enter your blood stream and either your body would fight it off or it wouldn't.

My symptoms started with my lymph nodes on my upper arm bumping out like little tumors...at first I had no idea what was going on and freaked out. The wound where the spore entered the skin would not heal and look kinda like a bee sting. It took two visits to the Dr.'s before he figured out what it was, and I slapped my hand on my head because I should of have known to suspect that after my coworker had already had it years before. When I started taking the meds the lymph nodes would swell up randomly starting from the top of my arm and working it's way back towards to entry point on my finger. My finger swelled up to the point I couldn't bend it for a couple months. Until the intial wound on my finger closed the Dr. had to keep me on the meds. The worst part is the cartiliage damage in my elbow. The lymph nodes swelled up the worst around the elbow and were quite painful.

I am just glad its over with and don't want to revisit that experience again if I can help it.

Originally Posted by fred

yep that is good to know
thanks for letting is know

Your more than welcome

Shann~

[fred]

just sharing some older photo for members that have not seen live sphagnum moss in nature

[orchidlover55]

Fred I can't grow any I don't have the light or room but can somebody just refer me a good place to get some that is close to that pretty to grow my orchids in? I am green with envy and drooling to the point I had to go get a bib to put on

[fred]

I hope someone near your location can give you some details on where to get some

[katrina]

WOW Fred...that is a LOT of sphag! Must be really nice to be able to go out in nature and harvest the fresh stuff. Jealous here.

OL55 -- I don't think sphagnum grows in your area of the country. I do believe it's limited to the some northern states further west than OH and up into Canada. I know I don't have any growing wild around me either.

[fred]

yeah it is Kat
that is just one spot I know of a few
its really nice to go for a drive and come home with about 7 or up to 12 bags like that
when I need sphag I don't go to any of the big box stores I go bush
I bought that stuff from a big box store once it was awful

one good thing I get to see a lot of our forests

[hera]

Fred, even though its been harvested from the ground, it looks so free of sticks and debris. Your so lucky to have such a good area to harvest from. I've switched many of my smaller plants to long fiber sphagnum, and recently I bought the New Zealand type. There is a significant difference from the Chilean.

[fred]

I think you will do well with the New Zealand sphag

good clean sphag is hard to get it really does take some looking and getting

I have seen spahg on the side of the road I would not use that because one of the road pollution, secondly because of weeds and stones

this is pretty good stuff



in winter time I can not get close to that sphag its either wet or frozen

[Dihcro]

Will the sphagnum moss turn green over time? I used mine to put over top of the dirt so that it looks prettier.

[malar123]

Originally Posted by benetay

The problem with sphag is that they don't come very cheap & from my current usage, i think i will need to spend at lease $20-30 every month. How i wish that i can pick some up like you Fred. Certainly cuts the cost down.

Since you requested, i took some snap shots in the room and show some more orchids filled with sphag. I just change all the old media to fresh sphags for the bulbo rothschildianum, i'm not sure if it is too wet for it.

Oops! Those chids' are on my bed!







Here is where most of the bulbos are hang up & yes all are covered with sphag.



Cheers!

Hi,
Do you have pics of your oncidium twinkle in bloom. Which bulbs put out the spike....i am curious to know...thanks in advance..

[Bolero]

I will have to remember to post photos of Masdevallias coming out of Sphagnum moss. I have a friend who refuses to use it on Pleuro's but agrees his roots will never be as good. Sometimes it comes down to affordability as well. I will post a photo, some of my plants have incredible root structure.

[Woods]

Hi everyone. I'm trying to revive a phal in sphag. It has been improving since I loosened off the moss. My worry is that it doesn't seem to dry. The top is still damp after watering from tray just over 1 week ago. It is in a window that gets morning sun and has been a great spot for my two other phals - one of which is in it's fourth year and amazingly about to bloom for third time since march as stem split in three sections this year. They are both in bark though. Should I move the phal in sphag to window with afternoon sun or maybe try to repot in bark like the others - I live in Glasgow so the weather is quite damp.

[NeoOrchid]

Thank you for this wonderful thread!!!

Actually, I started using sphagnum moss when I was living (moving back asap!) in the mountains of western North Carolina. I purchased my very first Wally Mart dead rescue orchids there, and constantly fought root rot (I lived in a small house that faced north, deep in the woods!).

It seems completely contrary but using the moss allowed me more leverage to lightly water my orchids to an almost monthly schedule! The root rot went away and my plants began to thrive. Thanks to sphagnum moss my rescues are quite handsome now (most of them anyway!)

What I do not know how to do is grow moss and that is definitely something I want to do. I think it is brilliant.

Thank you Orchidgeeks!!!

Neo

[royalkat]

Hi everyone. A while back, at my very first show, a friend gave me a bag of sphagnum moss. I used it to mount a Brassavola in a small cedar box but had a lot left over.

That was a bit over a month ago. I have kept it moist, and thought, well, maybe it would help raise the humidity in my terrarium.

Now I wonder, and forgive me, because I am a rank newbie here, can this moss still be used to mount my new bulbophyllums to cork, and, what is the general opinion on its condition? Do I need to keep it more wet? It has never dried, always been moist, but also received some gentle air flow. Doesn't have any unpleasant odour.

First post...please be gentle

[Andrew]

Royalkat,
Your moss is fine. Keeping moss moist for a month, especially without fertilizer, is not going to degrade sphagnum to any great extent. Wet sphagnum will start to break down over time so, if you're looking to store sphagnum long term, it's best to let it dry out completely and rehydrate it when you need to use it.

[NievesOrchids]

I have about a pound of sphagnum moss I bought for mounting. I was wondering if live moss would be great to use. I have seen bonsais grown with moss. I am trying to start a Terrarium for my orchids so I was looking into mosses.

I thought this was really helpful, there is 3 parts for this video.

How to Grow Sphagnum Moss "Before and After!" Part 1 of 3 - YouTube

I am going to buy some live moss and see if I can grow it. Do you think its worth trying to see if the moss I got that has been process will grow ? I will try this with my Beallara I divided. It actually came with some moss at the top but I think it was packed in too tight and the roots where not getting enough air circulation.

[Neil]

Nice idea, I think im going to try and get ahold of some and place some in my fish tank and pots to see how it grows.

[NievesOrchids]

So I got my moss growing in 18 days

Very simple Jar with sandwich bag covering it ( I didn't have lid )
Sorry for poor pictures


Pic of the whole Jar

[NievesOrchids]

forgot to add what brand I bought , it says its organic so this is why there are probably spores that are alive

[Jlie]

Is that stuff long-fiber btw? Congrats on your little green sprout!

[Micky]

I'm really new to Orchids, but I potted neglected orchids in a mixture of Kwinken rock, Searles Orchid potting mix (which looks like chunks of bark) and Spag moss... Half of my orchids are showing new growth...

[Brooke]

I think you are going to find you don't have live moss but a weed seed that hitchhiked in the sphag.

I have live sphag growing on a couple of my constantly wet bulbo baskets but considering the number of bulbos I have, the percentage is very small. Good luck with your experiment.

Brooke

[katrina]

Yep...Brooke is right. I get those little grass weeds in my sphag all the time. Some of my sphag comes back to life...but much of it does not.

[NievesOrchids]

Thanks I was not sure ! Now I am sad its not the moss lol all well I will see what happens.

[Ray]

I have - on occasion - had sphagnum spontaneously start growing in pots, germinating from spores present in pretty much all mosses, but if you regularly fertilize at a level suitable for your orchids, it will kill it.

That's a damned shame, too. Live sphagnum holds water well, but remains fluffy and airy, and won't compress with time.

[Brooke]

Ray all of my live sphag is contained in my bulbo pots and they are heavy feeders. Does the sphag survive and grow because the pots sit in water and are constantly wet?

Brooke

[vegan]

Nice thread Fred.
I am an orchid killer when they are in moss.
I wonderedhow you water it.
Can you make a video about it?
In youtube, all watering video are in bark medium.
I live i n tropical country. The temperature about 25 - 30 celcius.
When I water orchid in moss, I water it until the water flow through the drainage hole. Then the moss was very wet for 2 or 3 days. It is enough to kill my orchid.
Advice please.....

[plucker]

There are a few rules with growing in moss.

1. pack lightly - this allows air and the moss dries quicker.
2. Reduce watering to the point of no watering when it gets cold.
3. Replace at least every 2 years. Some may require annual moss change with fresh stuff. Reason - PH starts to change if it breaks down or the moss expands and so do the roots preventing air circulation.

In Summer in my tropical climate, the moss can stay dripping wet for 3 months with no ill effect. - I grow catts in this. Wet feet in Summer is OK outside here, but Winter and wet feet = no more.

[Neil]

That turtle moss looks real nice !!