My first S/H orchid 7 months later

[jay]

This Phal is my first orchid that I put into S/H.

In the first picture you can see that when I brought it home from Lowe's it was having some troubles with its roots.

The second photo is about 3 months after putting it into S/H and you can see the root growth already.

And now, it is in bloom with only one bud left to open.

[jay]

This next group of photos may be even more dramatic. This Oncidium Noid was near death last summer. You can see from the first few photos that the pseudobulbs were shriveled and dying. This one had also received a bad sunburn.

Notice the bent over shrunken pseudobulb in the first two photos.
It is the same pseudobulb in the center of photo #4. Notice that it now surrounded by new growths and has plumped up.

The last photos are there to show the root growth since last August. The roots have grown right into the reservoir where there is fertilized water all the time.

Just thought I would share some of my S/H results since there seem to be a lot questions about this method.

[kmarch]

Jay,

These results fascinate me. I'm sure other members will be interested too. Can you elaborate a bit more on your particular technique?

AlsoI have noticed recently a few members who had unfavorable results using s/h on paphs while the results with onc andphals seem to be good. Have you done paphs? and if so what were your results?

[silkymoon]

I must have missed something can you explain the s/h
maria


Edited by Fred] maria.... S/H means ( semi-hydroponic )

[sandra]

Amazing difference between then and now. Do you ever change, flush out the water in the reservoir?

[jay]

Kmarch, I keep all of my orchids in S/H. This includes: Phals, Paphs, Phrag, Neofenitia, Oncidium Alliance, Dendrobium, and Cattleya.

As far as technique. I try to transfer my plants into S/H when there is active root growth. This helps the transition into S/H. The Paphs don't seem to care when they are switched. I have repotted them while in spike, in flower, or with new growths. All seem to be just fine. My Phrag. Jason Fischer loves the moisture and has roots diving into the water at the bottom of the pot.

One thing I have learned about S/H is pot depth and airflow.
If you pot a plant too in a pot that is too tall, then the water will not wick up to the roots very well and they will dry out and die. At the same time if the pot is too shallow then they will never get enough oxygen and will rot off. The bottom of the roots should be about 1 inch above the drainage holes. If they grow into the water they will be fine because they have adapted to that environment.

Airflow is a big factor as well. If they do not get a good airflow then they can easily rot at the base of the plant where it enters the LECA. I did lose a couple of Onc. and a Dendrobium because of this.

Hope this helps a little. Let me know if there are any other questions.

[jay]

silkymoon - S/H = semi - hydroponic

Sandra - When I water I pour very quickly so that the water will reach the top of the pot and then drain out to the drainage holes. This helps flush out any buildup and replenish the nutrients throughout. Living in the desert I will do this twice a week in the winter and 3-4 times a week in the summer.

[articuno75]

Jay~Do your pots for S/H have holes bored in them near the bottom or do you just fill with water and hydroton? What I mean is where are the hole bored?

[jay]

Jenny - Most of the pots I have already have the holes drilled in them about 1 inch up from the bottom. I bought them that way from FirstRays.com. I do have a couple, including that Oncidium, that are in basic food storage containers that I used a dremel to make the holes.

[articuno75]

Too tall a pot, too short a pot. I guess I'm just too chicken to do the S/H thing for now. I bought some, but I think I'll use it on a NoID as a guinea pig first. I just want to get the concept down before I put my precious ones in it.

I repotted my Paph in CHC instead. I guess I gotta get braver

[jay]

Jenny - I think starting with a rescue plant from a box store would be a great idea. Most of these are out of flower and entering a vegetative growth which is the best time to repot them into S/H anyway.

As if I need to give any of us another reason to rescue an orchid.

[janet_a]

good looking phal; i killed a couple in s/h. and also had a near-death onc that perked right up in s/h.

now i'm waiting for my jason fischer phrag to get its act together and perk up in s/h.

[kazjak]

At this point, I have 6 Phals, a Brassia, 2 Noid Oncidiums, a Macodes Petola and 2 Catts in S/H. I had my Twinkle moved over as well but the leaves started yellowing so I panicked and moved it back. And of course I had my Paph Raisin Pie which I posted in a previous thread which didn't like the S/H at all. The Roots rotted off. I use any container that I can get my hands on. Old tupperware, 2 liter bottles..... My favorite container is a small bucket that my wife receives butter cream frosting in for decorating cakes. This currently has my Iwanagara Apple Blossom. I use a cheap soldering iron for making the holes. I almost killed my jewel a couple of weeks ago when the reservoir dried up so you have to really pay attention to the water levels. It definitely seems to evaporate faster through the S/H.

[tom499]

Thankyou Jay his have been very helpful, and probably explains the problems I had when I put a paph in s/h.

Over here, s/h means hydroton, in a two pot set up. You have a normal pot, then a holeless put on the outside, which acts as the reservoir.

Sounds abit confusing, but it means theres a double pot thing going on, and with the wetness, I can see that rot is the only outcome.

I was thinking of putting my new phrag into hydroton, in a normal pot with a saucer of water. It needs repotting and there is new growth.

My big question is though, why do roots rot when they're left in water, but when in h/s set up the roots can grow down to the reservoir and not rot. Is it just a lack of fresh air, or do the roots adapt as they grow?

[PhalPal]

I have a few Oncidiums that I just can't keep watered and the pbulbs are shriveled. I've even tried my coir mix, and being under T5's I am virtually watering every day. I'm watering spraghum every day also. (small pots) I am going to try my Oncs in s/h and see if it makes it easier for me.

[brookn]

I am definitely thinking of trying my Oncs in s/h also. I have a hard time keeping up with the watering demands myself. It seems like a good idea to try it for them right now.

[jay]

Tom, when the roots get to grow into the water then they adapt to the water. When the roots are in wet bark then the anaerobic bacteria (rot) begins to grow and kills the plant. In S/H the air can flow freely around the roots which prevents the rot to begin.

[tom499]

Thankyou Jay, thats cleared my mind I had a paph in a double pot thing in h/s and it rotted. Now I see, the h/s is fine, its just the technique i was told to use.

Could you show us more pics of your plants in h/s? I think this could be a great way to sort out my collection when I go away.

[janice]

Jay, thanks so much.............I have almost all my Phals. in S/H...............several Catts. but as noted in a previous thread.....my paphs. did not seem to like it....but I think it maybe was my technique..........and you helped me earlier regarding the air flow...I like S/H due to limited time/convenience of watering in the winter.....jan

[ganim]

Happy growing..... lets join to the bandwagon, go for s/h.

[PhalPal]

Jay how do you pick the size of the pot relative to the root ball??? does it matter as much if the plant is overpotted??

[jay]

Pot size is determined by two things.

1. root ball. In general you want the bottom of the root ball to be about 1 inch above the two drainage holes. These drainage hole will be about 1 inch up from the bottom of the pot.

2. What does the orchid like in nature. If it is a very dry orchid then I will pot it a little higher above the drainage line. If it is a very wet orchid, like Phrag. bessae hybrids, then I will pot shallower.

Photo 1 and 2 are of a Phrag. Jason Fischer that I got in October with extreme root rot. I trimmed all of the roots and put it into this S/H deli container. I potted this one a little shallow because many Phrags grow along creek beds and the roots may actually make it into the water. I tried to duplicate this with my Phrag, and you can see the new root growth.

Photo 3 - You can see my Onc. Twinkle here. It has a very shallow root system so I took another deli container and put the hole very close to the top to allow the water to wick to the top. I did increase the air flow so that the tops would not rot. Some of the roots stay on top where it is dry, and some are starting to dive into the water.

Hope this helps a little. Let me know if I need to clarify anything else

[PhalPal]

You are great Jay - pictures and everything!!!! I have three twinkles to re-pot that I got from a fire sale on a sunday right before the OC show closed. I got two of them plus four mini-Catts for $20. (Hawaiian grower Carmela Orchids) At that price I figure they will be good for a learning experience, and since I don't know what the flowers look like I'm not in Love with them yet!

It sounds like deli containers are the way to go since I can adjust where to put the holes??

One more question When initially placing the root ball into the new pot, is it best NOT to allow the roots to touch the water, allowing them to do the diving on there own??

The FirstRays site was down for a few days but was up again this morning. I can't wait to try this; I am watering EVERY day, even with spraghum moss and coir mix. The T5's and fans are drying them to a crisp. I'm getting GREAT growth, I just need to do some adjusting with my mixes. At this point I don't feel like I can take a vacation for more then two days.

You should see my garage - it looks like a mad gardening scientist has run amuck in there. (there has been) Just when I think I have my coir mix down to perfection I go and buy lights. Start over Connie!!!

[jay]

You don't want the roots to start in the water. They have to adapt to the water. If you look at the roots of my Phrag that are diving into the water, notice that they are not hairy like typical Phrags or Paphs. They adapt and grow differently than they would if they were in just bark.

As for the LECA, I use Hydroton. I have used the PrimeAgra from firstrays, but did not like it as much. Just my preference, some prefer it the other way.

I do like his smaller pots though. I have many of my orchids in his pots and have dozens of extras just in case I happen to buy more orchids.

[tom499]

That is awesome Jay!

I've put my two phrags in hydroton now, with a saucer of water, with the lowest roots about an inch from the water line. It looks alot nicer than the constantly damp bark.

Thanks for your help Jay, this is the kind of clarification that isn't given on this style of growing.

[berkeleysgr8]

I am also using Hydroton. It is readily available up here due to all the "grow shops" (I live in an area where a LOT of marijuana is grown). I think I paid about $25 for a HUGE bag of Hydroton. Be sure to wash it really well before you use it! There is a lot of dust that comes off initially. I have about a dozen cymbidiums (all small 1-3 growth plants) that seem really happy in s/h. My Catts (about 8) seem to be doing okay... not loving it, not hating it. I had 4 seedling phals and a full grown previously bloomed phal... I lost 3 of the seedlings this winter (I lost some in regular bark mix too). The full grown phal is spiking right now. My dends all seem to be languishing in s/h. I think I'm doing something wrong with all of my dends though. I got only one to bloom out of 6 adults plants (I have about 6-8 smaller seedlings too)... that one is in regular bark mix. I'm expecting with the warmer spring weather they'll start to perk up and put out lots of new roots. The oncidium and odontoglossum types seem to LOVE s/h (I have several noid plants... I didn't keep the labels when I started growing orchids! I know there is a Sweet Sugar and Colm. Wildcat in there... not sure what the others are. One has deep red flowers that smell like fake vanilla!). Lots of healthy roots. They were the first to bloom after going to s/h. Overall I'm happy with s/h!

Jay, have you ever had mold growing on the top of your medium? I noticed that over the winter a lot of my s/h plants seemed to have mold on the top (ewwww).

[jay]

berkeleysgr8 - I don't have any mold growing, but I do get algae in the bottom of the pot.

Do you have good air circulation? I keep a fan on my orchids 24/7. This is very important especially with S/H. If there is not an air exchange, then you will have the same problems with overwatering in bark.

[PhalPal]

I recently read that dynarock can be used as S/H medium. What do you think?? I use a lot of it in my coir mix, varying the amount based on what plant I am potting, and it really makes a nice open well draining mix. I NEVER worry about over watering, even with coir. In fact I have not lost a root yet since I started using it faithfully.

Since I have it around, should I try it??? Maybe with an Oncidium Twinkle??

[jay]

I don't know about the dynarock. I have never used it, nor am I very familiar with it.

The whole reason I went to S/H was due to my climate conditions it was very difficult for me to give my plants enough water without overwatering and causing rot. This is a method that worked for me.

Sounds like you are having great success with the coir. That is something else I don't know much about.

Sorry I couldn't be much more help.

[NancyG]

I'm got catts, dens in s/h and a couple of phal in a mix of PrimeAgra and sphag. They are all doing well. In S Florida I have to be careful NOT to keep the reservoir full. It is too humid and in summer too hot. The plants seem to boil. So you still need to be mindful of the conditions to your area. My plants are all outside unless they are blooming. The phals I changed to the mix because I couldn't keep them moist enough. They are in a lower light area. I do get the algae in the reservoir. Is this okay or should I do something about it?

thanks for the info
NancyG

[jay]

I have algae as well and it doesn't seem to bother anything. I am going to try experimenting with some things to limit it. One method that works for sure is to put the clear plastic pot into a ceramic pot so that the algae doesn't get any light. No light - No algae.

I am going to try a couple of other things as well including hydrogen peroxide and possibly green gels for lighting. If green light is all that is allowed to go through, then it would be the same as no light since plants reflect green light. Just a thought, now to find some green gels.

[articuno75]

What about a Physan wash? Has anyone else done that before? I do it with my Mtdm. Bartley Schwarz since it is in moss and the moss has to stay damp. I get mold and to get rid of it I give it a Physan wash once in a great while.

[jay]

Does Physan kill algae? I don't have any right now but would consider it.

[articuno75]

It's a fungicide, algaecide, bacteriocide, and viricide. (I don't know about the virus part,,,but it says it is. )

[jay]

Hmmm. . . I might have to give it a try.

[Miki]

Hi Jay,
Another alternative to Physan:
From Ray Barkalow's site:
"Water with a bleach solution of 1 fl oz per
gallon. You may want to consider placing the clear s/h pots within opaque
ones to prevent algal growth."

The algae growth is an aesthetic issue for me, I haven't done anything about it.

[tom499]

One problem I had with a paph in s/h though was when i placed the s/h pot inside an opaque one to algae growing I found the pot didnt get enough air circulation and rotted the roots.

I'm thinking of putting more holes in my pots further up, just to help with air circulation.

[berkeleysgr8]

Physan seems to keep the algae more controlled. I'm probably not using it as often as I should to keep the pots clear. Thanks for the advice about the fan. I'll look into getting a fan to ensure the air circulation is proper.

[Normkp]

Jay, thanks for sharing all your experience. The plants I've moved to s/h seem to be happy, and I'm more comfortable with it than anything else I've grown in. Watering is no longer a mystery!

Where I'd love to get some help is on setting up fertilizing and flushing schedules. I don't have reverse osmosis and am not yet ready to make the MSU leap. Using full spectrum fertilizers, do you have suggestions on what concentrations to use? and how often? and on a schedule for flushing?

I'd really appreciate some guidance.
Norm

[PhalPal]

I adopted to orchids that were shipped to me bare root. Since they were prevviously growing in S/H I decided to continue them the same. I'm need to know what to do now a month down the line. I do add a MSU type fertilizer to the water.

[jay]

Ahhhh, the fertilizer question. If you ask a dozen people about this you will get a dozen different answers. I do use the MSU type fertilizer for pure water. I do flush about once every other week. When I water with the fertilizer I quickly fill the pot so that it will drain and flush as well.

As far as other fertilizers, they should work as well. What you have to be careful with is the air movement, Ph, and TDS.

Air - If there is not a good air flow then the anaerobic bacteria (rot) can still form around the roots. It needs a lack of oxygen to do this.

Ph - There is no buffer since the LECA(Light Expanded Clay Aggregate) is inorganic and has a neutral ph. If your fertilizer is too acidic or not acidic enough you could have problems.

TDS - Total Dissolved Solids - If the water has too high a level of TDS then it can clog the roots, create salt build up, alter the ph, or give the plant a chemical burn.

If there is a hydroponic store in the area, they would have some great alternative fertilizers to the MSU type. They do push the growth and bloom booster, although I prefer to use an all around type year round.

Hope this helps a little. Let me know if I need to clarify anything.

[Normkp]

Thanks Jay. I've got good air on my plants. I'll start paying attention to pH and TDS.

Here's the level where I'm still uncertain: On my Phals I'm using a balanced fertilizer at 1/4 strength. I've adopted your quick fill and flush technique. My question is how long do I leave the roots of my plants in the fertilizer water? As the plant uses the fertilized water should I refill the pot with pure water or with fertilized water? In two weeks I'm going to flush the plant with pure water. I'm uncertain of what I should be doing in the meantime.
Norm

[LouisW]

I have to say, when I joined this forum all my orchids were in bark and sphag. Then I read about the wonderful coir mix. I went out and got the ingredients and potted some phals, some paphs, and a cym. Some experienced folks and the local Orchid Guild showed me that some of their plants are in plain ol' gravel. I got some gravel, potted some oncidium, millitonia, and some dens in that. Now this!! That is AMAZING! I cant keep up with all these amazing techniques!

Now I think ill head down to the Hydroponics supply get some hydroton, and some nutrients and pot some stuff into that! my head is gonna be spinning with all these different care methods to keep track of. hopefully one will show some good results and ill try to focus on that one.

I feel sorry for a few of my plants because I keep potting them differently. They are like plant hitchhikers that don't call any pot home for long. Don't worry plants, you'll settle down one day.

[jay]

S/H culture can be a great culture. Keep in mind, different cultures work better for different people. There are so many possible ways to keep your orchids. The real trick is to find what works for you. I live in a desert where it is very hard to supply enough water to the plant before it evaporates. By using the S/H method I can get around this. It also helps with evaporative cooling and humidity. There are individuals that have not had very good luck with S/H.

LouisW - Be careful about switching all of your plants to S/H. The best time to switch them is when there is active growth. I have lost plants that I switched when there was no growth, although I have had others recover just fine. Before you can really see what method is going to work for you, you will need to stick to one for a whole season. Otherwise you will not know what method/culture helped the plant bloom or grow. Every time you repot the plant it adds stress to the plant. Some plants resent being repotted, some don't seem to care when or how many times.

I am not trying to discourage you from trying S/H. I just don't want you to be disappointed if your plants get stressed from switching again. Patience is the key, something I am still trying to learn. If you do have any further questions don't hesitate to ask.

[LouisW]

Thanks Jay. ill make sure my plants are in growth before I get tempted to switch.

I live in the desert in New Mexico so I think it would be a good culture for me. I have trouble keeping plants moist enough, I have been talking to people at local hydroponics stores for more info but they hadn't herd of your sort of semi-hydro culture. I suggested that they read this thread because this is the most informative and clearly explained thread I have seen about hydro.

I'm going an a little bit of a trip for the next few months so ill be away from my plants but when I get back im going to start trying your method. I will probably have more questions at that time but for now, thanks for the great thread. it is really informative and exiting to see your results.

[JLu]

We have numerous Phrags, Paphs, Cattleyas and Catt alliance stuff, and dens in SH. We use Rays pots and prime agra. Ray did some testing on 3 LECAs and PA did the best job of wicking. I also flush like Jay, about once every two weeks. I use rainwater and MSU at the rate of 1/4 teaspoon per gallon.

One thing to think about when making your own pots.....Rays are are 2 to 1 ratio of height to diameter. If you get then too shallow there is insufficient free space above the water level. The drain holes in the Ray pots are about 1 inch from the bottom. I have to add water every two days in the GH. The biggest factor in water usage seems to be the size of the plant.

Every plant we put into SH has done very well. There is one thing that I've seen with Phrags only. Some of them get the brown leaf tips indicative of some toxin being sent to the tips. Those that do it, do it repeatedly. We have switched some of those back to CHC and the problem is starting to clear up. I'm not blaming SH, but if it goes away, I will move a plant back to SH and see if it returns.

Overall we really like the SH results.

[kid a]

I went today and got some hydroton at our local hydroponic store. But they did not have semi hydroponic containers. I don't have any thing to pot in yet but that's ok I'm sure I will soon!

[PhalPal]

kid a I couldn't find any pots locally and they were expensive online so I bought a 79 cent plastic pot without drain holes. I then measured about an inch up from the bottom and drilled holes all around the pot at this line. I know a lot of our members use deli cups and create holes like I did above.

[arleneg]

JLu,

I was reading this thread to get more tips on s/h. When I came across your post, regarding Phrags and brown leaf tips, it peaked my interest since several of my Phrags are getting the brown leaf tips. Some are potted in s/h; the others are potted in a bark/charcoal/rockwool/LECA mix. Should I repot all the ones getting the brown leaf tips?

What kind of toxin causes that?

[JLu]

Wish I could tell you something intelligent, Arlene. Try this web site. The toxic metal diagnosis is not limited to this site. It is also seen in several books. Look under "toxins" on the web site.

Diagnosing Orchid Problems

I have not seen this with anything but Phrags and only some of those. Phrags are sensitive to water quality so I thought maybe they were telling me something. I use rain water that has only seen the polycarbonate roof of my greenhouse and I test it for TDS (which is undetectable) so I thought maybe I was leaching something from the Prime Agra. I use MSU at 1/4 strength in winter and 1/2 in summer. I flush with pure rain water at least once every two weeks.

The problem seems to be getting better when I went back to CHC. I still use the same water and fertilizer. I would expect a very slow recovery if I were slowly pushing toxins already in the leaf to the tip. I'm watching the new leaves on these repotted plants closely to see if they show anything.

It is possible to get the same symptom from a fungus so I'm hesitant to jump to a conclusion about the cause at this time. We have probably 100 plants in S/H with prime agra and only about 10 Phrags are doing this. Our Catts and Catt alliance plants love prime agra, both in a S/H format and a normal potting format. We also have Paphs, and Dens in prime agra without any problems.

Overall, we are very happy with S/H (and with both prime agra and lava rock as normal planting media). I just need to eliminate this single problem which might have nothing to do with S/H or prime agra.

Ray Barkalow has some interesting data on his website regarding the wicking ability of prime agra versus other LECA media.

I'll let you know if I solve anything, but I expect it will be a while before I get any useful information.

[arleneg]

JLu,

Thanks for the link. I'll read it tomorrow, since I'll be going to bed soon.

I use RO and wonder if the filters need changing soon? I'll have to check the roots of the Phrags potted in the bark/charcoal/rockwool/LECA mix (mix it arrived in). I hope it's not a fungal problem. (fingers crossed)

[JLu]

Arlene, I don't think that the RO filters have any bearing on this. They generally plug and flow is reduced as they age, but I don't think they allow the passage of undesirable solids as a result of aging.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about roots. If, in fact, there is a fungal issue with the leaf tips it would not have anything to do with roots. Those parasitic fungi (Andrew suggested that those should just be known as "pathogens" and I think he's right) that might infect a plant are not mobile within the plant structure. They originate generally from spores that germinate and enter the plant through the stomata. The resulting mycelium (fungus) is a web like structure that is stationary at that location. However, as the leaf grows out, the stationary spot moves further out toward the tip so it creates the illusion of the spot moving. The plant kills off tissue around the mycelium to starve it to death. The resulting appearance is a dead (I guess the right term is necrotic) spot moving up the leaf to the tip. Since plants can not "heal" like animals any dead spot remains dead and the ultimate appearance is dead spots at the leaf tips.

I'd love to get this resolved so anyone who has an idea please spit it out. Please...I'm not attributing this to S/H at this time...Actually, I don't think the problem is associated with S/H but I do not know what it is. Anybody else see it? Got any ideas?

[arleneg]

JLu,

I'll try to get some pics taken and posted here, and start a new thread on my Phrag. problem. I don't want to clutter up this thread any more of non-s/h related messages.

[tom499]

One of my two Phrags in H/S had this problem of browning leaf tips.

Phrags are certainly sensitive to water content, salts etc and I have not had any more new leaves turn brown at the tips since I really limited my fertilising. The plant which was browning has about 7 new growths coming through along with a tonne of nice new roots getting into the H/S.

One thing I may be doing differently is my reservoir set up. I use a normal clear pot with holes in the bottom sitting in a saucer.

I wonder if not being able to remove the bottom of yours, however much you flush may mean there are salts clinging to the bottom.

Out of interest, what is the recommended amount of time between repotting plants in H/S? I figure you can reuse the media over and over, but I wonder if salts will still build up in the bottom of the pot, and so a proper clean out every so often would help.

[Jerry Delaney]

I was seeing the same symptoms with many of my Phrags Jlu, I do not use RO water as the TDS in my tap water is fairly low. I was growing them in CHC mix in a shallow pan of water (about 1/2 inch). I have since gone to a kind of modified ebb and flow system. Rather than leaving the pots sitting in the water, I drilled a couple of small holes in the bottoms of my trays and added a small water feed line to each tray. Now, every other day, the trays are flushed for a period of time with tap water only and that water then drains out. I repotted all of them in CHC when I started this and to date see no leaf tip die back on any of the plants. Perhaps this will change with time, but for now it seems to work. For a long time, I have used Phrags as an indicator of high salt concentrations and while it is a gross assumption I figure if I have no leaf tip problems on them, the water is most likely OK for the majority of genera.