planting in s/h

[exasperatus2002]

Im going to be receiving several bare root blooming sized Cattleya's soon. If they do not have any active root growth, should I plant them in bark & repot when they're growing or is there a way to prep them for s/h that minimizes the chance of the old roots from rotting.

[syndywindy]

I'm no expert, but when I switched my orchids to S/H, I just did it. Even if there wasn't new growth. I know that is not the recommended way of doing it, but I didn't notice a significant difference whether I had new growth or not. I think the ones that take to it will take to it regardless and the ones that don't you will notice.And those that didn't take to it, I repot into bark and they are doing well. The few phals I tried just did not like it, my catt's love it, they are growing like crazy in S/H as are the few onc's, wilsonara's and similar. Right now with winter approaching, most of the catt's I can get by watering like every 5-7 days. I have a couple that are more mature and are a little thirstier. i don't know if this helps you or not.

[davetheorchidaddict]

If they are bare root and grrowing leave them that way, I repoted an old phal once and it died almost immediately. Those roots do start using light and producing. I have 200 or more mounted cats and they are blooming very well, try to get a picture of one beauty tomorrow. Remember pots are not natural for them, there is not any pots in the jungle.

[exasperatus2002]

I have two being shipped from an ebay dealer this week (Rsc Chia Lin 'New City' AM/AOS & BLC Alma Kee), sent bareroot and in spring Im getting several from ecuagenera (Cattleya gigas, C. iricolor, C. quadricolor & Phrag. besseae). which will be imported to the US bareroot.

[lmartiny]

I don't do SH. I use a bark mix and pots or baskets. Bare root always worries me a bit but so far not bad progress. I've got a Den. whatchamacallit bought at a show and I'm really trying to watch it. No great roots when I unwrapped it from a wired bounding of coco fiber. I didn't want that or trust it so I unwrapped it. Little to no good roots and an elongated growth. Would have fit well on a mount but I didn't have a good piece of mount so I put it in a basket.

[flyfishdoc]

I put some of my plants into S/H when they were not in active root growth because they were doing poorly in bark. My thought was that if they needed to grow new roots because of stress, it did not matter what material they were in. I was right because I did not lose any.
My thought with receiving bare roots (which I have not had) is that they will undergo stress due to new environment, light, water, medium, etc, in their new home. The roots are going to have to adapt, why not adapt to s/h now instead a second adaptation from bark a few months later in spring?

[Irene]

I have a Brassalova (tag says B Nodosa hybrid) that I rescued from Lowe's. No real viable roots. 5 scrawny growths, all wrinkled. This was bare root when I got it.

Put it in bark mix with a little sphagnum moss and it was surviving but stayed wrinkled and some, but, little root growth. I put it in S/H a week ago. Tonight I pulled back some of the clay balls to take a closer look, and ROOTS! Lot and lots of roots. Well lots for this plant. And the growths are no longer wrinkled. I had 3 sticks holding this poor fella up. Tonight I removed the sticks and he's holding his own.

I'm very happy, as I was not expecting it to live.

edit: added store tag's plant ID

[Ray]

One of the best ways to induce root growth in a recalcitrant plant is with under-pot heating. Check online or at a local ag store for heat mats, often called "seed-starter mats". The smallest I've seen (17W, 19" x 9", fits in a standard nursery tray) needs no controller and boosts the root zone temp by something in the neighborhood of 10°-15°F.

Someone at another forum recommended that to me, and now I always put new transplants on one, as it makes a huge difference!

[koshki]

Ray, I put my phals on my seedling mat a couple weeks ago because I thought they were a bit too cold. I was just noticing yesterday that the roots were looking pretty happy! They do dry out more quickly, though. Need to keep an eye on them (they're in coir mix.) I hadn't put the heat mat and the root growth together. Thanks!

[Ray]

Good point, koshki. Even S/H pots need to be watered more often, but the response is worth it. I sell a lot of those to phal growers, precisely to keep them warmer through the winter months.

[Stitz]

Originally Posted by exasperatus2002

I have two being shipped from an ebay dealer this week (Rsc Chia Lin 'New City' AM/AOS & BLC Alma Kee), sent bareroot and in spring Im getting several from ecuagenera (Cattleya gigas, C. iricolor, C. quadricolor & Phrag. besseae). which will be imported to the US bareroot.

I think that your Alma Kee will do fine in S/H; mine is in primarily styrofoam peanuts. I intend to repot my C. iricolor in Prime Agra next year. I have it on minimal bark. It seems indifferent.

I imported orchids from Brasil in late August. Of course, they were all bare root. Several were immediately potted into Prime Agra. Only one didn't respond favorably. It's still alive but it isn't happy. That's quite normal for imported plants. That's ok; I bought two of that species and the other one looks fine with new roots clambering all over the PA and over the edge of the pot!

I will be attending Ray's presentation on Jan 10 at the Brookside Gardens Orchid Club in Wheaton, Md. I hope to learn a few things to improve my techniques!

I will begin warming my Phal roots, too!

--Stitz--

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by Ray

Good point, koshki. Even S/H pots need to be watered more often, but the response is worth it. I sell a lot of those to phal growers, precisely to keep them warmer through the winter months.

Ray

Your seedling heat mats are 19" long. On my shelving unit, I have down ceramic tiles that are 12" 12". Do you think if I center the mat so it extends under all 3 tiles that the outer two will see any benefit?

[Undergrounder]

I've found old T8 fluoro lighting fixtures give out about 5 times the heat and are a lot cheaper than the seedling mats. I just build a quick medium density fibreboard 'box' over the lights and sit the plants on top - bingo, cheap seedling mat.

[Ray]

You don't put the mat under the tiles, you put it on top the the tiles, then stand the pots right on it.

Undergrounder, heating from the top with lights and bottom heat do not accomplish the same thing. I cannot state this as unequivocal fact, but I have been told by some plant biologists (and have observed) that:

1. Warmth increase the metabolic rate in a plant.
2. If that is accompanied by sufficient light levels, much of that goes into growth of foliage.
3. By heating from the bottom and limiting the light level, most of the energy goes into root growth.

As most of my experience with this is plants going from traditional culture into S/H (although I use it for all transplants, including those moving into sphagnum also), they are going through some pretty drastic root zone changes. In the past I could expect the transition to take 6- to 8 weeks or more, but since using the mats, it's down to 2 or 3.

[Undergrounder]

Originally Posted by Ray

You don't put the mat under the tiles, you put it on top the the tiles, then stand the pots right on it.

Undergrounder, heating from the top with lights and bottom heat do not accomplish the same thing. I cannot state this as unequivocal fact, but I have been told by some plant biologists (and have observed) that:

1. Warmth increase the metabolic rate in a plant.
2. If that is accompanied by sufficient light levels, much of that goes into growth of foliage.
3. By heating from the bottom and limiting the light level, most of the energy goes into root growth.

As most of my experience with this is plants going from traditional culture into S/H (although I use it for all transplants, including those moving into sphagnum also), they are going through some pretty drastic root zone changes. In the past I could expect the transition to take 6- to 8 weeks or more, but since using the mats, it's down to 2 or 3.

The setup i'm talking about is for bottom heat. You sit the tray on the box, with the lights underneath (lightning nothing).

[Ray]

Well now... that's a "minor" detail you didn't mention before.

Two comments though:

1. Is there evidence that more heat is better?
2. I would think it's less energy efficient, as fluorescent bulbs are intended to produce light (consuming energy), and the heat is just a "by-product" if you want to look at it that way. The heat mats are intended to produce heat.

What is the energy consumption of the T8 fixture. The mats are only 17W.

[Undergrounder]

1. Well i only happened upon it by accident, and i was concerned with overall growth rate, not just root growth. I have a shelf system set up, where the tray of one shelf sits on a light that lights up the shelf below it and so on. All the plants on the upper shelves (that sit on lights) have grown on average, about twice as fast as the plants on the bottom shelf, which doesn't sit on a light box. I grew them all from flask, and some of them are almost flowering size, whereas even the largest plants on the bottom shelf are barely big enough for single pots.

That's not a comparison between the light and the mat, but AFAIK the added heat of the light has made a massive difference. Part of it is the small difference in light intensity, but most of it i put down to the heat.

So about a month ago, i bought a seedling mat for the bottom shelf. It cost me 2 - 3 times as much as a T8 lighting fixture, only heats up 1/3 the space and i barely notice a difference in temperature in the tray. I haven't had it long enough to notice a difference in growth rate.

The figures i have for optimum respiration rate at the roots of Vandaceous plants increases in a linear fashion to a max of 35 degrees C during the day, and the optimum rate of photosynthesis in the leaves is 25 degrees during the day and 15 degrees at night. So the root-zone seemingly likes quite warm temperatures, right up to 35.

2. I guess it must be less energy efficient! That light energy must be taking something. The 4ft fluoro light (that warms up 3-4 seedling trays in length) is 32W. I don't know if that's the total energy used by the lighting fixture, but that's what the bulbs are rated for.

But the difference in heat is quite significant. My little seedling tray-size heat mat barely makes the tray warmer than room temperature, i can barely notice a difference. Whereas the light box is 'hot' to the touch and heats up water to be very noticeably 'warm'. Plus it heats up a much larger area.

Here are a couple of pics:

The shelf with the highest rate of growth is the one that sits on three lighting fixtures (third shelf from the top on the right - I use three lights to make up for the greater difference in shelf spacing of that shelf). The top two shelves, which only sit on one light, have good, but not quite as high growth, and the bottom shelf, that sits on no heat, has the slowest growth.

The tray on its own to the left was recently planted.

The shelves in the tank on the floor were also planted at the same time as the originals on the right (although they're slower growing species, not hybrids). The ones on the top shelf (sitting one light) are at least 50% more advanced than the stragglers on the bottom.

[Ray]

I guess you answered my first question!

The heat mats I have boost the temperature about 10°F-15°F above ambient, and that is discernible (to me at least), but not "hot".