Mallardman's offical flasking thread.

[Mallardman]

I am thinking of starting a flasking hobby I have access to a laminar hood and every thing else is ready to go but I still have questions about the agar the seeds must be sowen in mostly the chemical composition and what brand would be the best if possible please include what orchid agar should cointain and also if you have a good brand to recomend.

OH almost forgot the flowers being bred are phalanopsis

[digitalgate]

growing in the flask is the easy part. Raisin from flask to adult is very very difficult.

[jay]

Mallardman - What two Phals are you crossing? Have you already crossed them and have a seed pod already? I am just starting with crossing two Paphs and would be interested in hearing your experiences with your Phals.

[Andrew]

As you haven't listed where you live in your profile, I'll make a wild and possibly incorrect assumption that you're in the US. Try the following suppliers for ready made media.

OrchidSource Laboratory and Nursery-wholesale orchids, stem propagation, growing instructions, procedures, tissue media, cultures, pictures
Home Page - PhytoTechnology
Welcome to Gallup & Stribling Orchids

[Mallardman]

Your assumption is correct and I haven't crossed the plants yet I want to make sure they have every thing they need when I sow them.

[fred]

Mallardman
Can you please go into your UserCP at the top left of the page and Update your Profile this will help us to understand your growing conditions and also with giving you the right advice.
thank you

[Mallardman]

Okay sorry i'm a newbie ill do that right now.

[Mallardman]

Phalanopsis Baldon's CaladascopeX???????

I need to buy another one any recomendations?

[Mallardman]

Okay now that I have the websites what should I buy what do you guys recomend I was thinking of buying the kit so I have more flasks but is this a good idea

[Mallardman]

Okay guys I have everything I need and just so you know the orchids I'm crossing

BaldonXlarge white
BaldonXbright pink
Large whiteXbright pink

I'm crossing the flowers now.

[Mallardman]

On 5-29-08 I crossed two Phalanopsis flowers this resulted in two hybrid pods. Neither of the pods have opened in what time period do you think I should Harvest them?

[articuno75]

Exasperatus2002 crossed his Catts in February. The thread is called Step by Step. The pod is still green today, that I know of.

Now that is for crossing Catts, Phals are different. Has the pod changed color?

[GrowInHydro]

You can harvest Phal seeds in the green pod after 140 days, and you should see the pod start to yellow to spill dry seed at around 230 days; but it really depends on the parents. Is this a primary hybrid or did you cross two hybrids? Watch the pod stem. If it starts to yellow, dehiscence will follow in a few days.

[Mallardman]

Originally Posted by GrowInHydro

You can harvest Phal seeds in the green pod after 140 days, and you should see the pod start to yellow to spill dry seed at around 230 days; but it really depends on the parents. Is this a primary hybrid or did you cross two hybrids? Watch the pod stem. If it starts to yellow, dehiscence will follow in a few days.

Well the crosses are as follows The First Name is the pollen donator the second name is the pod parent.

Large white X Baldon

Large Purple with white outline X The Large White afore mentioned

I also Tried a Baldon X Large purple cross but that failed

[GrowInHydro]

yeah, the average is 120-140 days after pollination.

Best of luck!

Hers a list I archived some years ago. I don't have where I found it written in my notes, but I do have a great website for you to reference:

ORCHID SEED-CAPSULE AGE DATA TABLE

And I just found this one for you:
Orchid Pollination

ORCHID SPECIES | DAYS AFTER POLLINATION
Ascocentrum 110-180
Brassia 170
Bulbophyllum 140-180
Cattleya shilleriana 120
Cymbidium 210-270
Dendrobium kingianum 64
Dendrobium phalaenopsis 120
Dendrochilum 120-140
Laelia anceps 140
Masdevallia 130-150
Miltonia spectabilis 110
Neofinetia falcata 165
Oncidium ornithorynchum 70-240
Oncidium variegatum 60-70
Paphiopedilum 180-440
Phalaenopsis shilleriana 120-140
Renanthera monichica 150-180
Rhynchostylis 150-250
Sophronitis 75-100
Stanhopea 170
Tolumnia henkenii 90-120
Vanda coerulea 290
Vanilla planifolia 60
Zygopetalum intermedium 250-260

[articuno75]

This is useful. I'm subscribing to the thread so that I have the info handy.

[Mallardman]

IN preparing the media to be used for the procedeure of flasking how do you recommend I cook it in a pressure cooker.

Heat amount of time ETC.

Edit the package recommends the media be sterilized for 15 minutes under 15ft of pressure what should I heat it at.

[patticake]

I'm sure others will reply...I don't have the nerve to do that part. Good luck to you...Keep us posted...

[willowbanks]

Hello Mallardman, what pressure does your cooker operate at???

Willowbanks

[Mallardman]

I don't know its a 8 quart pressure cooker if that helps and the media is from orchid source.

[Andrew]

Most pressure cookers work at around 15 psi. I have access to an autoclave so I haven't used a pressure cooker to sterilise media. However, based on the settings for autoclaving media, heat the media to 250F. Dry material and small volumes of liquid should take 15-20 minutes to sterilise. If you're sterilising larger volumes you need allow extra time for the liquid to reach tremperature. Time should be measured from when the cooker reaches temperature.

[Mallardman]

How do I know what the internal temperature is?

[Andrew]

The boiling temperature of water under 15 psi of pressure is 250F so when the rocker starts to rattle, you've reached boiling point and you can start timing. Make sure you have enough water in the bottom of the cooker for the amount of time you'll be sterilising (see the manual).

[Mallardman]

wait a minute so the sealed flasks need to be surrounded by water inside the pressure cooker at the time of sterilization?

[Brooke]

Don't you have to sterilize the media prior to the sowing and sealing of the flask? Or am I really confused, again.

Brooke

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by Mallardman

wait a minute so the sealed flasks need to be surrounded by water inside the pressure cooker at the time of sterilization?

Yes. You are essentially steam sterilising the flask as well as boiling the media. Also, the water creates a humid atmosphere so that the water in your media doesn't evaporate. It's best to raise the flask out of the water so they don't tip over or get splashed on too much You can throw together a small makeshift stand from anything metal you find lying around the house (a bit of wire mesh on some old tuna tins would do). I stipulated metal as some plastics can melt or warp when heated.

One more point, if you're using flasks with lids do not screw the lid on tight when you put it in the cooker. Leave the lid loose on the jar's thread so that air can easily enter and escape. Tightly sealed jars tend to explode from the build up of pressure. If you're using Erlenmeyer flasks with cotton plugs this should not be an issue. Once the cooker has cooled to room temperature you can remove the flasks and tighten the lids.

Brooke,
We're talking about sterilising the flask & media before the seed is sown. The media is sterilised inside the flask to create a sterile environment in which to grow the seedlings. Sterilising the media in a separate container and then adding it to sterilised flasks increases the chance of contaminated the flasks before you even get to sow the seed.

[Brooke]

I think it was his terms "sowing and sealing of the flask" made me think he was going to sow the seed, seal the flask and then sterlize the flask in the pressure cooker.

Cooked orchid seeds seldom germinate :>)

Brooke

[dr_frnkblck]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Cooked orchid seeds seldom germinate :>)

Brooke

But they are tasty on a bagel.

[Brooke]

Doc I was thinking more along the lines of oatmeal, cream of wheat. I had never considered it for a bagel.

Do you also play a chef on the 'net :>)

Brooke

[Mallardman]

Originally Posted by dr_frnkblck

but they are tasty on a bagel.:d

*gasp*!!!!

[Mallardman]

No on second thought I don't

[Mallardman]

Well I did as told and I'm going in to flask tomarrow yay.

[Mallardman]

So tonight I went in under the hood and flasked my two seed pods in 7 flasks I don't think 3 of them will germinate though any tips or hints?

[patticake]

No tips or hints, but LOTS of good wishes and luck! Keep us posted on how you make out!

[Mallardman]

I will kay

[exasperatus2002]

Best of luck to you. Why dont you think some flasks are bad? Did you sterilize everything?

[Mallardman]

Well I think some were bad because the pod might have been immature so the seeds in 3 of the flasks might not be fertile.

[Rishad Kalarikkal]

All the best...and do post us the pics...
thank you...

[Mallardman]

Hey its me again as you probably know my little seeds are in flasks so I ask the question should the seeds be submerged in media or left on the top? Floating on the media.

[patticake]

I believe on top. I've never done the flasking, so I'm not completely sure. You're a very industrious person!! Good luck and keep us posted!!

[Andrew]

Seed should be spread over the surface of the media. What do you mean by "floating on the media"? Is the surface of the media reasonably dry or is there a lot of excess water covering the surface?

[Mallardman]

BY floating I mean there just sitting there on top and some are germinating yay.

[patticake]

Originally Posted by patticake

I believe on top. I've never done the flasking, so I'm not completely sure. You're a very industrious person!! Good luck and keep us posted!!

On top...

[solay]

Glad they are germinating for you. Please post pics. when you get a chance. Thanks.

[Mallardman]

Originally Posted by solay

Glad they are germinating for you. Please post pics. when you get a chance. Thanks.

Well there just little white threads now not much to see. I'll post when I get some green.

[Mallardman]

During my flasking I ended up crossing three plants to produce three hybrids saddly as time went by one of the hybrids failed to become fertile. While one other was infected by meally bugs noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. The last hybrid survived and is a phalanopsis white crossed with a baldon phalanopsis

[Mallardman]

Hey guys I have a few more questions to ask.

1.What light should the plants be exposed to I'm currently using an artifical sunlight lamp on them the flasks are in a cupboard that I shine a light onto.
2.How many plants are usually yielded for each seed pod sowen in agar?
3.What is a good potting mix for phalanopsis protocorums?
4.Any hints/tips?

[Mallardman]

Whoever put all my threads together thank you now all of the information is in one place so I don't have to retype.

[bloomorchidguy]

Hi Mallardman,

Some comments to reply to your questions. I currently use full spectrum fluorescent lamps about 5 to 7 inches above my flasks. Be careful on shining your lamps from different angles. I found in the past as the protocorums develop they tend to grow towards the light as they naturally would. But light at an angle can cause plants to develop and grow down into the agar. I've seen it happen a few times already with friends of mine.

It terms of yield it can greatly vary sometimes you get tons of seeds and other times not that many depending on the cross. I find yields from pods tend to increase when sown in less amounts onto the agar. But this factor can greatly vary depending on the supplies, bottles, etc. that you have available.

For phal protocorums I use a fine bark mixture with perlite, charcoal, and some peat added it.That seems to work best for me but they are placed in high humidity after being deflasked.

For tips and tricks I have many it depends on what you are interested in finding out more about. There is many different ways of looking at things depending on if you are doing green pod or a pod that has already split.

Hope this is helpful.

Troy

[Mallardman]

Originally Posted by bloomorchidguy

Hi Mallardman,

Some comments to reply to your questions. I currently use full spectrum fluorescent lamps about 5 to 7 inches above my flasks. Be careful on shining your lamps from different angles. I found in the past as the protocorums develop they tend to grow towards the light as they naturally would. But light at an angle can cause plants to develop and grow down into the agar. I've seen it happen a few times already with friends of mine.

It terms of yield it can greatly vary sometimes you get tons of seeds and other times not that many depending on the cross. I find yields from pods tend to increase when sown in less amounts onto the agar. But this factor can greatly vary depending on the supplies, bottles, etc. that you have available.

For phal protocorums I use a fine bark mixture with perlite, charcoal, and some peat added it.That seems to work best for me but they are placed in high humidity after being deflasked.

For tips and tricks I have many it depends on what you are interested in finding out more about. There is many different ways of looking at things depending on if you are doing green pod or a pod that has already split.

Hope this is helpful.

Troy

Thanks for the information I use full spectrum lights too and I see some little white growths coming out of the seed success! Unless its bacteria

[Mallardman]

Its been some time since I have sown the seed and yet I see no green growth should I be worried?

[GrowInHydro]

Give it some more time. 3 weeks is a good point to start watching for green in there. Some seeds germinate fast and you'll see protocorms already, others can take a month or two. I have a Catt cross that I almost gave up on, and a few finally germinated after about 2 months; which is a little long for Catt's but they did their thing in their own sweet time!

Hang in there

[Mallardman]

OK ill give it more time should I take pics?

[digitalgate]

for germination, did you seen anything colour change? from white to yellowish take about a
month.
from yellowish to green take another month.

from protocorn to deflask anything from 3 months to a year.
from protocorn to deflask Vanda 6 months
Dendrodium 6 months to 1 year

[Mallardman]

Yay I see some growth in flask #1-D so good things are happening.

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by Mallardman

Yay I see some growth in flask #1-D so good things are happening.

Congratulations! Im still waiting on my capsule to be ready to ship.Cattleya's are such a long wait when done in a windowsill environment (as opposed to greenhouse conditions).

[Mallardman]

Originally Posted by exasperatus2002

Congratulations! Im still waiting on my capsule to be ready to ship.Cattleya's are such a long wait when done in a windowsill environment (as opposed to greenhouse conditions).

Good luck with that.