My de-flasking of the babies

[patticake]

I've been sick, but this morning I decided it was time to pot those babies up.
Pic #1-I cut drain holes in the bottoms of 3 oz. plastic drinking cups.
Pic #2-I broke up some ghost poop(styrofoam peanuts) to put in the bottom of the pots for drainage.
Pic #3-I added some small charcoal to the bottom as well for drainage and to keep the mix sweet.
Pic #4-I used a sink mat to sift out the bigger chunks from my schultz mix.(I also added some chopped sphag and some charcoal to the mix.
Pic #5-I added 1 1/2 teaspoon of Physan-20 and a drop of superthrive to a gallon of distilled water. I added some of that to the flask to try to break up some of the agar.(it didn't work)
Pic #6- After removing the babies in one chunk-to a pan of the solution, I could break apart the babies very carefully. I then held each one over a cup and spooned in dry mix. (wear gloves, as the Physan-20 shouldn't touch bare skin)
Pic #7- When I was done, I watered all of them gently with the solution in a spray bottle-(very gentle stream) I placed the dome loosly over the seedlings to keep some humidity in, yet let some air circulate as well.
Pic #8-One tray of 12 seedlings
Pic #9-Second tray of 12 seedlings
Pic #10- The compot of 11 of the tiniest seedlings.

My husband is building a light set-up for them, and it should be done today. I'll post the pic when it's done. (yep, he's a keeper!)

[exasperatus2002]

Looks good! I hope they do well for you.

[Sabien]

Looks like a major operation! I hope you get lots of healthy plants.

[patticake]

I hope so...There were 35 plants. Some were pretty small... All I can do is my best....

[articuno75]

Patti it looks grrreat! I know these will do awesome for you!

All I have to say is when these babies get bigger, keep in mind for one!

[dr_frnkblck]

Nice job Patti. They're looking good. Since you couldn't wash the agar apart did you end up just taking them apart by hand? Was that a pain?

[patticake]

You and dr_frnkblck! You got it! I wish I could send one to kevin....

[patticake]

My husband built a nursery for the new chids. They like it so far.

[patticake]

OOOps... I forgot the picture... Duhhh- My brain hasn't been functioning very well lately.
Here it is.

[articuno75]

Oh Patti! Tell hubby I give two for construction! It's awesome!!!

[patticake]

Thanks, I'll tell him. He had to wire the fixture, since it was meant to be hard-wired into a ceiling. Then he attached it to a board. The rest is kind of obvious.

[butt0n]

Great work Patti! I love how you set up everything What kind of orchids are these again?

[jay]

Patti - I would make sure that you keep a thermometer in the enclosure with the seedlings. You may find that the lights will cause the temps to rise when they are on. You will want to make sure they don't get cooked.

This may not be a factor for you, but for me it was because it is already so warm here that the lights easily warmed up the dome as well. In NY, especially this time of year, it may not be of concern.

[patticake]

Originally Posted by butt0n

Great work Patti! I love how you set up everything What kind of orchids are these again?

Paph. farrieanum x sib (Fair Lady x Extra Fair) The parents are siblings and both are partial albas, so they're hoping for some albas in the bunch. I love farrieanum and am pretty excited about these little guys!There's a picture of one in a book that I have, and it's so pretty. I'm not as crazy about the coloring on the standard one, just the form.

[exasperatus2002]

What kind of lights are you using in your fixture? and how long of a photoperiod are you going to have?

[patticake]

Originally Posted by exasperatus2002

What kind of lights are you using in your fixture? and how long of a photoperiod are you going to have?

My gro-lights in the basement are gro-lux. these are the 2' plant and aquarium lights that I picked up at Home Depot. I'm going to leave them on for 16 hrs to start, and see how the plants react to that. My basement lights are down to 14 hrs. right now but will go back up in the spring. I'm not trying to trigger any bloom, so I'll leave these at 16 unless the plants tell me otherwise. So far, so good. We had a bad storm today, and lost our power for about half an hour. I was getting a little nervous!

[katrina]

Thanks for posting this whole process patti. I've never done any of this...but find the process very interesting. Be sure to keep up updated on the babies' progress.

BTW - love the nursery set up...looks great!

[patticake]

Originally Posted by dr_frnkblck

Nice job Patti. They're looking good. Since you couldn't wash the agar apart did you end up just taking them apart by hand? Was that a pain?

In my Nyquil fog, I never answered this. Sorry, Doc! When I got the clump into the water solution, I gently teased them apart. It wasn't hard. I was just being really careful not to tear any roots. There were a few small roots lost, but the majority stayed intact. I removed as much agar as poss without damaging the roots. All that I've read, said to remove all agar. Well, Paph roots are hairy and that's just not possible. I would have damaged the roots too much if I had tried to "scrape" all the agar off. We'll see.... They look good this morning! No change either way, but that's o.k.- They're getting used to their new environment.

[Rishad Kalarikkal]

I know this is not the right place to ask this question.sorry for the inconvenience.But can anybody please tell me why is it asked to remove all the agar...the plant grew in that medium so far...and we are asked to remove it as a whole and plant it in a usual medium.what will happen if the agar is left in place,or traces of agar is left in the roots?
thank you.

[patticake]

Originally Posted by Rishad Kalarikkal

I know this is not the right place to ask this question.sorry for the inconvenience.But can anybody please tell me why is it asked to remove all the agar...the plant grew in that medium so far...and we are asked to remove it as a whole and plant it in a usual medium.what will happen if the agar is left in place,or traces of agar is left in the roots?
thank you.

That's a good question... I hope someone can answer it for us.

[Ron]

Hi Patti.
I love your lights setup.
Maybe get me to do the same for my flasks setup.
Very simple but works. Well done.

Hi Rishad, As for the Agar, as you say, they have been growing in it for many months!
As for "You must remove the agar" another urban myth.

Some nurserys just remove the whole clump of Paphs and place them all together, agar and all into community pots.
Claim they do not get any setback.

Myself, all the flasks I de-flask, I give a rough swirl in the water to remove the bigger pieces of agar and then pot them up into community pots. usually I try to separate as many as I can but often Paphs will cling to others roots so well their is a risk of damaging them.

Best of luck
Ron

[patticake]

Thanks, Ron! I guess I did it right. It just seemed like it would be too much of a shock to try and get it all off. I got the majority off, as you said. I appreciate your input!

[brookn]

Hey Patti, food for thought, or next time... Matthew Gore (Gore42) said somewhere on here that when he deflasks Paphs, he just kind of breaks them apart, and puts them into community pots into the medium with the agar. He watered carefully, and would just fill in around the places where the agar had washed away. I believe he said his best growing seedling Paphs were always in the compots.

[patticake]

I've read several different views on compots or not. I chose the individual pots as some say it causes much less shock or damage when they are going to be moved on. They're still together, and I'm watching them closely. The smallest ones I did put in a compot. I'll have some of each, and we'll see together how it works out. I appreciate your input- This is a new process for me.

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by Rishad Kalarikkal

I know this is not the right place to ask this question.sorry for the inconvenience.But can anybody please tell me why is it asked to remove all the agar...the plant grew in that medium so far...and we are asked to remove it as a whole and plant it in a usual medium.what will happen if the agar is left in place,or traces of agar is left in the roots?
thank you.

Once you deflask, the orchids are no longer in a sterile environment and any left over agar thats not removed may get moldy.

[Rishad Kalarikkal]

Thanks a lot Ron, Patti,Brookn and Exasperatus...
I can bet that the best way to learn is to ask someone about their story.
thankyou...

[Ron]

Hi Patti & Rishad.
When I first started deflasking many years ago. (Paphs)
I was told by one of the leading Paph growers who did his own flasking and de-flasking, to get some of the fungi into the mix from the flasks agar.
Was after you washed the plants and they were all potted up was to then settle them in and to add the fungi.
Was to water with the water you had just deflasked into.
I just poured this in with a small watering can with a rose head (Shower) to settle the plants.
Let all dry for 5 minutes and then use the watering can & rose head to water all with a good fungicide.
I did this in a sink so all the fungicide drained away from the mix.
Works very well for me. Maybe sounds like an overkill but when you are paying around US$50 to US$100+ for a flask it is a big loss to lose it all to damping off fungi.

Best of luck
Ron

[patticake]

I'll just keep my fingers crossed. I'm using Physan-20 1 1/2 teaspoon per gallon water right now. Do you think this will be o.k.?

[Ron]

Hi Patti.
I have not used Physan-20, but from what I have read about it it should work very well.
We all have our own favorites that are easy available.
Hardly ever see Physan-20 for sale in Australia at general plant nurserys, were as fungirid is always avaliable.

One thing I can tell you is Paph. seedling love to be repotted quiet frequently.
Every six months is good providing its in the growing season.
I do mine early every spring. they then seem to just jump away with new growth
Best of luck
Ron

[mosmanlow]

There seems to be 2 views about deflasking and
the removal of agar.

One opinion is that one must remove all the agar and treat
the seedling with a very diluted fungicide solution. This
may retard the growth of the seedling

The other view is that you can NEED NOT remove the
agar or remove as much as you can and plant the seedlings.
There will be no harm.

I am confused!.

So I am following this thread with interest.

Hope someone can add their comments which view is correct.

[patticake]

Oooo! You pulled this one out, didn't you? I'll have to post some updates on the little guys! I removed as much of the agar as I could, gently. I have heard that it's a lot worse to try and get every bit, and risk damaging the delicate roots. All of the babies are still alive and well, except for the very tiny ones that I put in a compot. -there are only a couple of those left. The ones that I potted up individually, are still with us!
Thanks, mosmanlow, for making me update!

[solay]

Thanks Patti. I'm trying to see if I can try de-flasking in the near future and this really helps. The little Paphs. are looking really good there.

[tocarmar]

Patti,
They look very healthy!! When I receive my seedlings they are allready deflasked w/o agar. I just plant them in mini compots 3-5 for larger seedlings & 6-10 for smaller seedlings, I use spagnum moss to plant them in.


Tom

[jay]

Looking great. Thanks for the update.

[trinigirl]

They are doing really well! Thanks for the update!

[doodlekitty]

Hi Patti...lookin good!! I have two flasks (no not MY personal babies, but two I bought at Redlands) that are ready to go and I too am confused about the method to use.

I overheard a gentleman at Redlands (one of the many benefits of attending shows.....INFORMATION) telling a customer the best way to handle seedlings....leave em in the agar, put em in a compot and cover in seedling mix. My question is which is the best type of container? Too much drainage, not enough drainage, too wet, too dry....AGHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhh

[trinigirl]

Great question about the drainage, curious about containers too.

[rcb]

doodle, I've deflasked a few over the years, and only recently was successful with it. In the beginning, I lost them all. They are so small usually that it is hard to deal with them. I've tried the agar on and the agar off methods. Didn't seem to make a difference for me. I've tried Physan and tried using nothing.

The most important thing that I've found is to make sure they are big enough. In the beginning, I assumed when I bought a flask they were ready, cause the seller wouldn't sell them if they weren't right? - not always true.

If you are an AOS member, they have an article under the Great Ideas section. I haven't tried it, but ??

Good luck!

[patticake]

I agree with Renee. I've only done these, and some Cattleyas so far. The only ones that I lost, were the very smallest. They need a good start.

[Bolero]

Thanks for this thread Patticake. I think I've planted some of the seedlings a bit deeper so I might lift them a little.

This is a great help to me.