Creating a Hybrid

[jay]

I have many questions and hope that someone can lead me in the right direction.

Given:
I have a Paph. lowii and a Paph. primulinum var. album that I want to cross. The lowii is at least a second year bloomer and in bloom right now. The primulinum is blooming size and could bloom this year.

Question #1
Which should be the pod parent? I know that it can make a difference in some since one is sequential and one is multi-floral.

Question #2
Should I wait until the primulinum is older? As far as timing, I could harvest the pollen right now from the lowii and pollinate the primulinum when it blooms.

Question #3
Has Paph. Mamie Wilson (lowii x primulinum) been done with an album form? Also, which is the pod parent? I know the order tells this, but I can't remember.

This is it for now, but I am sure I will have many more questions.

[exasperatus2002]

While I have no experience with Paphs, I am working on my first hybrid in the Cattleya alliance. Each parent will pass on different characteristics when used as either pod or pollen plant. Whats been recommended to me is to save the pollinia from both of them and try them both as pod & pollen plants. You may get something from one that you wouldnt have the other way. Store the pollinia in a coffee filter in a cool, dry place. use a dessicant packet to keep it dry if possible. I was told (atleast with Catts) that it can take a week for flower to be mature enough to accept pollination. But I did mine when it was only open for 3 days and of the two flowers, only one took. Good luck!

[jay]

Does anyone know which would make a better pod parent, the lowii or the primulinum?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jay

I have a Paph. lowii and a Paph. primulinum var. album that I want to cross.
Question #1
Which should be the pod parent? I know that it can make a difference in some since one is sequential and one is multi-floral.

It depends on what you want to achieve. If you want a smaller plant habit perhaps choose the primulinum as the pod parent. Neither of these plants needs to be really big to bloom so I bet it won't make much difference. i grow lowii, prinulinum, primulinum alba and Mamie Wilson and of all of those, the regular primulinum seems to be the fastest grower. Of course the growth rate can be affected by environmental things as well as genetic so...

Originally Posted by jay

Question #2
Should I wait until the primulinum is older? As far as timing, I could harvest the pollen right now from the lowii and pollinate the primulinum when it blooms.

Paphs often bloom better on their second blooming, and a more mature plant is usually stronger, actually this is true for a lot of orchids, so you could wait. On the other hand you could probably pollinate now too.

Originally Posted by jay

Question #3
Has Paph. Mamie Wilson (lowii x primulinum) been done with an album form? Also, which is the pod parent? I know the order tells this, but I can't remember.

When it was registered, Mamie Wilson used lowii as the pod parent. I do not know if it has been made using an alba primulinum. I would imagine the difference would not amount to much given the rather subtle difference between primulinum and primulinum alba. To my knowledge lowii var. alba does not exist. I've only ever encountered very vague threads of anecdotal evidence and have never seen anything substantial.

[jay]

Kevin - thanks for the information. Maybe I will harvest the pollen from my lowii now and then from the primulinum later and trade.

As for the albino lowii, this is the only one that I found at Orchid Inn.

It is only for sale in flasks, the small flask (10-12 plants) is $350 US.

I think this could make an incredible Mamie Wilson, but it is going to be a little bit of a wait on that one.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jay

Does anyone know which would make a better pod parent, the lowii or the primulinum?

Usually the choice of pod parent is determined by what you hope to accomplish by the cross. For example if one parent is an easy bloomer and one a tough bloomer oyu might choose the easy bloomer as the pod parent in the hope that the offspring will be easier bloomers. If one parent is BIG and the other is small you might want to choose the small plant as the pod parent in the hope that the offspring will have a better amount-of-flowers-to-size-of-plant ratio.

I greatly appreciate the info on the lowii var. alba! I know Sam and he is a connoisseur to be sure. It's great knowing something today that you didn't know yesterday!

[jay]

Thanks for the info Kevin. I think I will collect the pollen from my lowii now and pollinate the primulinum var. album later. I think I will get some pollen from the primulinum before pollinating it so that I can pollinate the lowii on its next blooming.

This could be fun to see the difference between to crosses of the same parent.

[made4engineering]

Well guys... I have to say that I doubt which plant carries the pod will matter at all. Plants do not differ in the type of genetic material carried in the egg or sperm (yes, sperm). The only extra contribution by the egg is the cellular organelles, eg. chloroplasts.

[kmarch]

I understand your point made4, yet there are differences, at least in paphs, in outcomes based on which parent is the pod parent. Jason & Jerry Fischer are remaking some of the Brachy/Cory crosses using the Brachy as the pod parent and they are proving to grow and bloom faster than the notoriously difficult-to-bloom versions using rothschildianum as the pod parent.

[patticake]

I know this is like comparing apples to oranges but, I know that with african violets, it makes a difference. If you want a violet with a variegated foliage- the seed parent must be variegated also to carry that on. I'm just learning about orchid hybridization and loving it!

[made4engineering]

Hmmm.. well now that i think about it a little more... I guess Im pretty much wrong, since chloroplasts do carry their own DNA and can greatly affect the growth of the plants, since they are the energy producing ..uhh.. thingies. And Patticake, you're right about the variegation.. the variegation is simply a lack of chloroplasts in some tissues of the plant...

[patticake]

Made4- Does that include the pink variegation, too?

[jay]

Ok, so I have successfully harvested 4 pollen pods from my Paph. lowii. They are in a coffee filter, which is in a plastic container, which has a silica dryness packet, which is in the refrigerator.

Now for that Paph primulinum var. alba to go into bloom and the experiment can continue.

When the primulinum does bloom I will update the pollination. It will also be the reverse of the normal Paph Mamie Wilson (lowii x primulinum), lowii is usually the pod parent.

Keep your fingers crossed that the pollen will be ok for a while.

[made4engineering]

Nice avatar pic Jay... I would totally get me one of those if it werent way too big for my epiphyte space.
And Patticake, pink variegation is just like regular variegation, except the leaves have a pink undertone to them that only can be seen when the chloroplasts are missing. Variegation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jay

...pollen pods...

If it interests you, the name for those little sacs of pollen are pollinia (plural) or pollinium (singular). Pollinia....hehe, always reminds me of polenta for some reason, which I like...yummy.

[jay]

Thanks Kevin for the correct terminology. Now I just need another flower to cross it with. I have two other paphs in bloom, but I don't think they would mix well.

And polenta is starting to sound good for dinner tonight.

[kmarch]

What are the other two paphs you have in bloom?

[jay]

Actually, what would happen if a big complex Paph was crossed with a little sequential?

I am curious how all of this works. Here is what I have in bloom. Photos below.

Paph. lowii

Paph. Sorcerer's Stone

Paph. Druid Spring (druryi x primulinum)

If Druid Spring was crossed with Sorcerer's Stone would you get little round sequential flowers?

What about lowii x Druid Spring?

I am very intrigued by the hybridizing process and would love to hear from someone who knows more.

[patticake]

This is awesome, Jay- I have one question- Why are the seeds in the refridgerator? Is this something that is done with orchid seeds? I've never done any hybridizing with orchids, so I'm new to this aspect of it.