Flaco's De-Flasking Project

[FLaCo]

I am opening up my flasks and planting 20 or so seedlings. I have taken a mix of your suggestions of you geeks and decided to used a 50/50 bark/perlite mix. I will soak the mix in a Physan 20 solution and spread it in a small Jiffy plastic greenhouse and cover it.

I am just going to make a dimple in the sterile bark mix and place the seedling and repeating this throughout.


What do you guys think? The seedlings should stay up on their own right? Should I add Spag. moss or just use my mix? Seedlings should always be moist right?


I will take pics tomorrow.

[FLaCo]

The day came and here are the pics. I took them out on Monday.

[FLaCo]

Here are the buggers in their house.


The pics of the process a few kilobytes larger than the allowed jpeg size. Meaning I can't post them.

[brookn]

Looks good, I bet it was quite the chore, but it will be well worth it someday.

[patticake]

Looks great FlaCo! What's the cross?

[FLaCo]

Thanks guys.

The crosses are:

Brassavola glauca X Pot Elizabeth Palmer

&

Ctna. Why Not X Enc. Plicata

[FLaCo]

Pictures of the parents...

[FLaCo]

How long until I can up the lid? 2 weeks? 4 weeks?

Should I re-water soon? Should I re-spray a light Physan solution?

[FLaCo]

Bump... I am bumping to see what people say about my seedlings.

In case they think it is an old thread.

[patticake]

I would play it by your senses. Just keep an eye on them.Your set up looks good! Others will know better.

[arleneg]

Since I can barely see thru the covering, it looks like you did a great job in transferring them into their new home.

Keep them moist. Wait 2 weeks before opening and watering/fertilizing. Careful with the Physan solution. It can burn the seedlings' leaves (happened to my Catt. and Phrag. seedlings). I suggest mixing a very small amount of Physan and spraying every one to two weeks.

[kmarch]

I think the second cross the Guaritonia x Encyclia cross wounds quite interesting and unusual. It's hard for me to guess what the outcome might be. The firs cross is more predictable. You'll probably get a nice big sunset colour catt with a big lip. That's nice too but I'm intrigued by the mystery of the first.

[FLaCo]

Patticake, I def. am using my senses at the moment. This is my first time do this...grafting fruit trees is similar in that sense where it becomes a delicate specimen.


Arleneg, thanks...I will take a better pic I promise. Thanks for the heads up on the Physan solution. I will make sure to go a bit lighter next time.


Kevin, that is the reason why I bought...it really does make you wonder...how will that thing look like?

[Ellen]

I wouldn't keep treating the plants with physan if there's no need to. As Arleneg said, this can harm the seedlings and inhibit their growth. Just keep them moist but not soaking wet, and keep them warm - no mold should grow. When I deflask, I do not use physan (or any other chemicals) at all, and only keep the cover of the container completely closed overnight, then gradually start opening it up, more each day. By the end of one week, the seedlings are completely open. For me, Catts usually do better if they stay in sphag compots for about a year, then go into individual pots once they've got a couple of nice pseudobulbs. Compots also save space! But everyone's conditions are different, so in the end you have to learn by trial and error what works for you.

[FLaCo]

Thanks for the reply, Ellen. As of now... the small greenhouse are at room temperature (75-80 F )with a pair of aquatic light bulbs 5 inches from the top of greenhouse see-through lid. They seem to doing well, still green leaves, light moisture droplets on the greenhouse lid, it doesn't smell funky (i know the moldy smell from my pepper and tomato seedlings).

Thanks again.

By the way can you show me what a community pot looks like?

[Ellen]

A community pot (aka compot) is just a larger pot with many seedlings planted together in it. Often the plants do better this way initially. Here's a pic of a dendrobium compot of young seedlings. Even though it looks like a big spreading plant, this is about a dozen plants with only one or two pseudobulbs each. They are planted in a 3.5" pot, in sphag. I usually leave seedlings in the compot for about a year before potting out. The ones in the pic had been in the compot for about 6 months at the time the photo was taken.

[FLaCo]

Two weeks ago Monday I removed my seedlings from their flasks and planted them. Here they are.

I finally the mini greenhouse for the first time to water them with a very light solution of the better gro stuff and a drop of superthrive. I noticed lush dark green leaves and new roots everywhere. I think they are doing good.

Ellen, thanks for the pic ...maybe I will do that when I remove my seedlings from their greenhouse.

Tell me what you guys think? What should my next step be? Should I tip the greenhouse's lid open just a bit for another two weeks?

[sandra]

Damien, this is all unfamiliar territory for me. No advice to give except to say this looks like advanced science to me, the subject that lowered my gpa in school. Those pics show lots of roots so you must be doing everything right. The crosses look very interesting.

[FLaCo]

Sandra, this is all new to me too. I was always the tinkering type in Biology, Chemistry class.

I am just wondering if the guides were right about the two week period.

[arleneg]

Damien,

That's a long and rather large compot! But then, it makes watering much easier. Anyway, you did a great job. They look nice and healthy.

Yes, you can open the lid a tad bit. I think a 1/2 inch or so is good.

[tom499]

Hardening the plants off is certainly important, and your seedlings look pretty big already so should do well.

A few things I've picked up about growing seedlings are:

They aren't so bothered about day/night temp changes, which is good because seedlings like abit of extra warmth.

Catt seedlings will want to stay abit more moist, but yours look quite big so will probably be developing bulbs now, so could do alright with abit more dryness, which will be good to help combat fungi.

Try to water with RO water or rainwater as seedlings can be more prone to salt burning, which can cause leaves yellowing.

I would agree with arleneg, to harden the plants off open the lid abit more each week so the plants can acclimatise. The faster they're out of those tanks the better chance they have of growing.

[Vivienne]

Damien - are these your babies from Rueben in Orchids?
While I lost all my brassavola (not from Rueben), my seedlings from Ruebens are doing very well. Yesterday they spent several hours without their cover. Covered them up last night and will repeat again today.

[FLaCo]

Arleneg : Hehe...this isn't the compot. Just a Jiffy seedling greenhouse...I will plan on using a few compot now that you showed me the light. How big are your first compots?

Tom: Even though it has been raining I didn't save any water. Instead I bought some distilled water for 79 cents and used that instead. That should be good, right?

Vivi: These were some random flasks from a guy on ebay. He had 100% feedback (even though that doesn't mean much nowadays) and the flasks were interesting. If you want the sellers name let me know. Also, if my Brassavola are sucessful and healthy...down the road I promise to ship you a couple.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by FLaCo

Vivi: Also, if my Brassavola are sucessful and healthy...down the road I promise to ship you a couple.

And he means it Vivienne!

[Vivienne]

aw - thanks Damien! I'm bummed about my Brassavola... they had problems and required an emergency deflask. Obviously not done soon enough.

[FLaCo]

Yea, I remember. That really sucks...hopefully these will go through. You like the brassavola cross?

[Vivienne]

The ones I lost were Brassavola ovalformis.

[arleneg]

Damien,

My compots have 4 - 6 Catt seedlings, depending on pot size. I'm using 2" and 3" pots.

[brookn]

Damien, I almost bought the same flask-Ctna. Why Not X Enc. Plicata, right before you posted that you bought them. I thought it looked interesting, but I just am not ready for a flask yet. I can't wait to see what they look like.

[FLaCo]

I deflasked on 3/21 and today I put them into smaller compots. Some of them seems to be on steroids so I put those on smaller separate plastic basket pots. I then put those small basket pots in a big 6 inch clay pot with rocks on the bottom. They are outside now with everyone else.

[patticake]

They look great, Damien! I love the little baskets that have the "steroid" plants in them! Putting them in a group pot, yet individual is great, I think! Nice job- keep us posted.

[FLaCo]

Thank you Patti. I don't understand how some seedlings just outgrew the others even though they were similar in size at the deflasking.

Anyway, I will keep this thread updated...this way folks that new to de-flasking can take in the process step by step.

[Jirel]

Just wanted to say that this is REALLY cool and thanks for posting all this. I'm finding it fascinating.

[Vivienne]

Damien - your babies are growing so much faster than mine are!!

I borrowed your idea of putting all the litttle pots into one larger pot on to of rocks. I have now done that with the ones of mine that are ready. Still have 6 little pots of runts that are under a humidity dome. Great idea you had!

[FLaCo]

After a month of shifting weather...from rain, to cool temperatures, to then hot humid days and now very hot but dry (dry to us So. Floridians anyway). It seems like the plants are playing their own version of Survivor in their compot. The bigger ones are doing better than the rest even though I purposely made the compot as even as possible when it comes to seedling size. Overall though all of them are doing well...it is just a matter of time. The steroid seedlings are doing extremely well and show vigorous root growth.

I mist them daily and are in the same regimen of the rest of the adult plants around them. I fertilize them with 20-20-20 once a week and add superthrive once a month. The only difference would be that I don't soak their pots since I am afraid I will burn the roots with the direct contact to the fertilizer.

Let me know if you notice any difference I do esp. in the bigger plants. The Ctna. Why not hybrid are doing good but a messier and so they look "all over the place" and unhealthy.

From left to right: steroid seedlings, Brassavola hybrid, Ctna. hybrid and pic of both compots.

[Vivienne]

They look great Damien! Mine look pitiful and are growing SOOO slowly.

[FLaCo]

Don't say that ViVi, mine aren't growning that quickly either.

Where are live it is a little easier ...the weather is warmer...we have higher levels of humidity. It really isn't that have a green thumb or anything you and I are probably doing the same thing just that you have to wait a little longer.

You seem to have a touch...because with your climate conditions working against you ...you still are able to produce. I say that you have talent and you have the green thumb.

[Vivienne]

You are too sweet Damien. Thanks for the confidence booster. I think the reason mine are growing slower than yours may be due to temperature. My atrium still gets down to the low 60s at night.

[Greenhouse Gal]

Damien, I can't wait to see the results of the Ctna. why not cross. Really nice to see all the steps.

I too did one of my first deflaskings recently. Den. spectabile. I potted mine as compots, into 4" pots of spag. The larger seedlings in one and the smaller ones in the other. I have about 15 seedlings in each pot. (Sorry, no camera for pictures.) I have the pots in lager clear plastic pots. I had lose lids on both but have been opening them up more and more. The pot of larger seedlings is now fine without a lid. The other will be taken off soon. They are growing but it does seem slow. I have the seedlings in fairly deep shade because i did not want to cook them inside the other containers. Can anyone give advice on how quickly to acclimate them to stronger light?

[FLaCo]

Originally Posted by Greenhouse Gal

Damien, I can't wait to see the results of the Ctna. why not cross. Really nice to see all the steps.

I too did one of my first deflaskings recently. Den. spectabile. I potted mine as compots, into 4" pots of spag. The larger seedlings in one and the smaller ones in the other. I have about 15 seedlings in each pot. (Sorry, no camera for pictures.) I have the pots in lager clear plastic pots. I had lose lids on both but have been opening them up more and more. The pot of larger seedlings is now fine without a lid. The other will be taken off soon. They are growing but it does seem slow. I have the seedlings in fairly deep shade because i did not want to cook them inside the other containers. Can anyone give advice on how quickly to acclimate them to stronger light?

You have them under lights?

When I decided to transfer them from their Jiffy green house I kept them in the green house and moved them to a window and them outside after a few days. They don't get full sun or anything just morning sun until 9 am or so then from 6-8:30 (dusk). Then after they got used to that light I switched their compots into the small clay ones you see there. I think the more gradual the better...but they are pretty hefty.

[patticake]

Originally Posted by FLaCo

Thank you Patti. I don't understand how some seedlings just outgrew the others even though they were similar in size at the deflasking.

Anyway, I will keep this thread updated...this way folks that new to de-flasking can take in the process step by step.

The chids look great! When ever you have a hybrid cross, you will get variation. When humans have children, sometimes they all look very similar to each other. On the otherhand, there are some families that have tall kids and short kids-red hair, brown hair, etc. - It's the same with a cross of 2 plants. It just depends on the background of the parents and which gene matches up with which gene!

[solay]

Great thread. I've been thinking of buying a flask but I think I better start with seedlings and compots first. Your plants look like they are doing real good. I'll be keeping an eye of the progress just in case I ever try to deflask some chids.

[PalmCityOrchid]

Hi FlaCo. Did you get a chance to find out if you bought the flasks from Ruben in Orchids? The labels look like his. I bought several from him. I was able to drive down to his greenhouse in the Redlands (my brother lives in Kendall).

I also deflasked the Brassavola x Pot. Elizabeth Palmer. Your seedlings look way better than mine!!!! I'm hoping that some of mine will make it. I'll be happy if 2 make it!!! It was also my first time. I put them in plain perlite after some got moldy in the bark seedling mix. They seem to be hanging on, but I see a lot of gray roots. A few have some white roots, but no new growth.

I love the Brassavolas - they smell wonderful! It is also the national flower of my native country - Honduras!

"The orchid (Brassavola Digbiana) is a flower native to Honduras with exceptional beauty, vigor and distinctive characteristics, it was decreed to declare the National Flower of the Republic of Honduras as the orchid. Also at the same time, the government implemented pertinent measures to ensure its conservation and to the areas in which it grows, and to control its commercialization, cultivation and to teach scientific knowledge regarding orchids in local schools. " Taken from Country of Honduras - HONDURAS.COM.

Well, good luck with them and keep us posted - I'm definitely interested in your progress!

[PalmCityOrchid]

Forgot to ask you - are you going to the Redlands Orchid Festival going on this weekend? It started today. I won't be able to go due to a workshop for work - BUMMER!!!

[FLaCo]

I don't know if it is Ruben, I will double check..but I do think it it is...he is located in Goulds, FL.

I am going to try to go the show but I have family parties to go to.

[exasperatus2002]

thanks for the update. They look good.

[Greenhouse Gal]

Damien,
You asked if my seedlings were under lights.
No. They are in a greenhouse. But the pots are under taller benches. I don't think that they get any direct light. The overhead shelves are very full of plants. Even reflected light is limited as the wall near them is painted dark blue. (I did not paint this wall. It was that way when I got here.) I have been thinking of adding some shinny mylar behind the taller shelves to reflect more light on all the plants under the tall set of shelves. Someone else positioned many plants under these shelves. I have been slooowwly moving thing out that I know need more light, (so as not to burn plants acclimated to the very low light), and removing trays that are stopping the small amount of light available from getting lower in my "canopy".

[FLaCo]

Here is the monthly update (5 days early). These guys are really slowing down now...and the a couple Ctna. hybrids have died. The steroid 5 are doing very well. Pics below...

[Geile Schlampen]

Hi,

i am Ivonne and i just found this cool place.
I will keep on reading first but i will also have a lot of questions
cause this is all new to me. Hope that my questions are not boaring
cause it looks that a lot of cracks are here.

Best Ivonne

[solay]

Damien, they are still looking good to me. Sorry about the Ctna. Hybrids. Hopefully these will mature and produce beautiful blooms.

Hi Ivonne. Welcome. You might want to put a new post under introductions so everyone can say hello.

[FLaCo]

Solay, thank you for you kind wishes towards the seedlings. The seedlings are doing 'ok' not forward not backwards, just there.

[solay]

You are very welcomed. I wish I had the guts and time to try deflasking. I also don't have the know how. Good thing you are going for it. I will watch and learn.

[Orchid B me]

Your seedlings look great. If you like I have a good seed germ mix you can try when your seedlings have hardened off. -If you want to take on another project.- The mix is easy and all supplys can be purchased at any local store very cheap. Anyway-- good job with the seedlings.

Do any of you have any thoughts on compot-ing with treefern? when my recent re-plates are ready to deflask I think im going to play with the idea. wondering if any of you have tried. thanks ...Chris