Brassavola seed pod

[vanda_obsession]

So I am basically moving this thread here, after confirming my thought in the 'newbie' section. I did not try to pollinate as I am 'not ready' for that stage in my hobby, but I do not want to cut it off.. Would like to see if it will mature to where I could send it off.... and if it doesn't survive.. then it doesn't! I would love for input and advice along the way. I've done some reading in this section, but not 100% confident. I would like to post the pics of when I discovered it, which was 1/12/12... And post maybe bi-weekly pictures, depending on how much it changes. I hope it survives, I would love to give my hand at this!

[vanda_obsession]

Here are days two pics, a VERY slight color change? Anyone know how long this little guy is going to take? I know different species can be different.

[Shannara]

It still looks healthy to me. If it dries out and dies you will know. It will discolor like a bud blast and eventually fall off. I had 4 pods/capsules on my Encyclia that I wanted to keep but 3 fell off. I am assuming the plant decided it could only take care of the one and let the others go. I also noticed the subsequent spike with blooms didn't last very long at all. Seems all those little babies it's making can take up a lot of the plants resources.

I look forward to seeing how yours progresses.

Shann~

[vanda_obsession]

Thank you Shann! I look forward to seeing how it progresses myself!

[orchids4me]

Hi Vanda
Like Shann said, the plant knows if it can handle it it will abort what it can't or if it isn't developing right
I was practicing pollinating and I've got a few pods in the making over here. A hard cane Den aborted 2 of 4 pods and a soft cane idint expect so many to take but it had 9 lost one so far (Den Red Empiror Prince) I have a few other types of pod working also since sept.
If you interested in the process of harvesting and collecting the seed I can give you a link for that. Its on troy's web site. I use that method to collect and dry mine and use. A calcium chloride slurry in a jar with holes in its lid inside a larger sealed container to keep the relative humidity to sore them in the fridge until I'm ready to flask. I think its Phal seed that has the shortest life span from what I've read....
If your pod develops you can flak, have another member flask or donate it to troy or. Aaron hicks. Troy actually will flask them Arron will sell the seed to flaskers I think he flasks some though. But if you choose to donate Troy would be a good choice. He only does species orchids.....
Good luck with your pod !!
Emmaye

[vanda_obsession]

I don't think I want to try to flask them myself. I would rather have them sent off to a lab and have it done. Are there any other trusted labs to send to? I have the link for rockbridge lab services... I see they are not currently taking anything in right now. However it seems like I have 5-6 months, if it survives, but I would like to do some 'homework' by finding some labs that I could send this off to.

[vanda_obsession]

com'on little buddy!! keep growing!

[vanda_obsession]

an interesting observation, the pod has happy sap on it... so I guess it's just that!

[vanda_obsession]

growing quickly..

[vanda_obsession]

Orchid show this weekend! I look forward to asking some of those folks who I could send this pod off to.. I will be sure to post pics from the show

[tangers40]

ooh hey i just found this thread...where the heck was i?!

anyway, as i'm diligently watching my first growing pod also, i'll keep close tabs on your thread. if you figure out a good place to send yours, let me know. the further along mine goes, the more i want to get it professionally flasked. from what i've read, my pod will only take a few months to develop, so i guess i better make up my mind :-P

[vanda_obsession]

I got this gentlemans information at the show... everyone recommended him for flasking, I can't exactly remember his prices but I remember telling myself that "that isn't too bad!"

Steve Arthur Orchids
(803)221-5471
steve@stevearthurorchids.com

He is located here in SC

[tangers40]

thanks! i'll file his email away for future use. i checked my pregnant plant again tonight, and another of the pollinations took, so i've got two pods now, about 2 weeks apart in pollination dates. yay!

[vanda_obsession]

Heres a little update on the pod!

[Mike Lee]

Please do not take this as criticism but can someone explain to me why you would want to pay to have the pod flasked for what I assume is an unexceptional clone of Brassavola. If the plant is an awarded plant or endangered/rare species I would be guarding it with my life, however all you are doing by keeping the pod is setting back new growth. You may get one or two 'good' plants from your flasking but to do that you may have to grow on hundreds or more of the seedlings. If your plant is a 'good' plant you would be better spending your money having it mericloned or paying for a division of a good plant. There is no point ing prolonging mediocrity.

[vanda_obsession]

This is your first post on this website since joining, and I have to say, you're not starting off on the right foot.

I'm doing it because it's a learning process. I don't know how to flask seeds nor do I have the room in this cramped tiny apartment to do these things. I'm sending it off to someone who was highly recommended to me by the SCOS, plus it's only $15 bucks. While waiting for the flasks to come back, I can do more reading on how to de-flask them and learn how to raise some seedlings before I go and spend the money to buy a more valuable flask of orchids (yes, I know they all have different cultures/care, but I would rather have these to try than to buy a more expensive/valuable flask.)

This is a learning process for me. I've been growing orchids full time for 2 years and STILL have so much to learn, and I still feel like a very new-newbie to orchids. And that is what this website is all about, to learn. I'm a broke college student currently paying for all my schooling out of POCKET. Which means I don't get much of a chance to buy myself a new plant as often as I'd like, and the chance that I could get maybe 10 seedlings or something out of this for $15? That sounds like a decent deal. I enjoy this as a hobby to relieve my study stresses and I enjoy learning about my plants I have so far, as well as reading other folks posts on here on their trials and errors so that I can learn. If my pod fails, or if my de-flasking fails, THEN ITS A LESSON LEARNED! And maybe this post will help another newbie one day who joins our website, such as I have read through posts when I first joined.

So what if its a 'unexceptional clone' of a Brassavola! It sounds like you are bashing me for having a plain 'ol boring (Brassavola) pod, because they are a dime a dozen, self-pollinate extremely easily, and not as 'highly prized' as other species of orchids/rare orchids. But, it's MY learning process, if you don't believe in that them I'm sorry, maybe this website is not for you.

They say if you never try at something, you will never learn. I'll take positive feedback and information from folks all day long on here, but your post is too negative for me. You could buy me a expensive flask then tell me how to de-flask them, over the internet, but if they die..... then don't get mad because you spent $50++ on it. This is $15, if I lose it, I lose it. I'd rather lose $15 than $50 on some highly prized or 'rare' orchid flask when I'm not ready to take that risk yet.

[Mike Lee]

Thanks for your kind response.

Obviously you did not comprehend the import of what I said which in brief is that as a relatively new grower you would be kinder to your plant by cutting off the pod and getting it back into full growth. If you want to learn about seed pods use Google.

Orchids like all plants have only one task and that is to produce sufficient seed to make one new plant. In striving to do so they put alll other growth on hold because they 'believe' they are dying. Many species produce one pod and then die.

My point concluded that unless their is some special need to breed the plant why not produce an eceptional specimen plant?

If you want seed let me know and I will post it to you-quite legally. I am a grower breeder (mainly species) with about 4,500+ plants and about 500 flasks in my lab.

[tangers40]

Originally Posted by Mike Lee

Thanks for your kind response.

Obviously you did not comprehend the import of what I said which in brief is that as a relatively new grower you would be kinder to your plant by cutting off the pod and getting it back into full growth. If you want to learn about seed pods use Google.

Orchids like all plants have only one task and that is to produce sufficient seed to make one new plant. In striving to do so they put alll other growth on hold because they 'believe' they are dying. Many species produce one pod and then die.

My point concluded that unless their is some special need to breed the plant why not produce an eceptional specimen plant?

If you want seed let me know and I will post it to you-quite legally. I am a grower breeder (mainly species) with about 4,500+ plants and about 500 flasks in my lab.

ya know mike, not everyone is in this hobby to produce "exceptional specimen plants" or "amazing crosses" or even to win awards. some of us are here to LEARN THINGS and most importantly HAVE FUN. i myself just crossed two of my "boring" plants to make a couple pods, and guess what? i'm looking to have mine flasked also. why did i do it? TO SEE WHAT HAPPENS. i've never grown a pod on any of my plants, and there's something to be said for watching a pod grow in person that you can't get from looking at pictures on google. which would you rather do? travel to some faraway location on a trip and experience the scenery/culture/etc in person, or look at pictures of it on google?

and i'd like to see some sources for your claim that plants produce one pod, then die. that's kinda like saying when a woman is pregnant, her body "believes" she is dying, so that when the baby arrives, her body declines and she dies.

[Mike Lee]

"not everyone is in this hobby to produce "exceptional specimen plants" or "amazing crosses" or even to win awards.": Me neither. All I want to do is grow orchids as well as I can in my situation.

"and i'd like to see some sources for your claim that plants produce one pod, then die. that's kinda like saying when a woman is pregnant, her body "believes" she is dying, so that when the baby arrives, her body declines and she dies. ": Really? Aren't you confusing human genetics with plant genetics. May I suggest you read up a little on the botany of orchids or flowering plants in general if you want to learn the difference.

Aerangis luteo-alba var. rhodosticta is one orchid that is well known for losing viability after podding and is only one of the miniature monopodials that have that reputation.

All I have suggested is that the plant will grow better without the pod. I would rather see large healthy plants rather than plants that have suffered. They suffer enough with us putting them in pots and growing them out of their environment. You will also note that I did genuinely offer seeds to Vanda Obsession should she wish to have them

Tangers 40 you have all the fun you want with your plants and in doing so learn from those much more experienced than you are.

[Brooke]

I haven't had any of my 'chids die from carrying a pod to term but it does set the plant back. I've had Phals not grow any new leaves for one cycle. It does take something out of a plant to mature a pod. If I find a accidental pod on one of my 'chids I remove it to prevent any decline in the plant.

Lindsey are you sure the entire cost of the flasking is $15? Usually the lab doing the flasking charges you for each replate and then again for how many flasks you want sent to you, sometimes with a minimum number of flasks you receive.

Welcome to the forum Mike - I look forward to having you share your experiences to us amateur flasking folk.

Brooke

[vanda_obsession]

Originally Posted by Mike Lee

Thanks for your kind response.

Obviously you did not comprehend the import of what I said which in brief is that as a relatively new grower you would be kinder to your plant by cutting off the pod and getting it back into full growth. If you want to learn about seed pods use Google.

Orchids like all plants have only one task and that is to produce sufficient seed to make one new plant. In striving to do so they put alll other growth on hold because they 'believe' they are dying. Many species produce one pod and then die.

My point concluded that unless their is some special need to breed the plant why not produce an eceptional specimen plant?

If you want seed let me know and I will post it to you-quite legally. I am a grower breeder (mainly species) with about 4,500+ plants and about 500 flasks in my lab.

I obviously know what Google is, being a college student, it is my go-to.

You do not have to put me down because I don't have exceptional plants, rare plants or what not. I'm a beginner grower, and I've only seriously put my efforts in growing and learning about orchids for the last two years.

the only way for us to learn is to try things we are unsure about... You know the saying about "you learn more on the job?" I'm sure you know how true that is? You can't learn everything by reading and such, you learn by trying. Sure, I buy cheap no name orchids at Home Depot and such just to tinker with. I am in no way a serious grower looking to build a greenhouse that is industrial size, or have a flasking lab with 500+ flasks.

I don't need your seeds because I do not know how to flask them, hence why I am sending off my pod to have someone flask it for me.


@ Brooke: He said he would charge $15 to start, and IF anything generated, it would be $10 per flask. We were at a plant show discussing it and he was a little rushed.. Tax money will be coming in, so I won't have any issues with whatever the total ends up being. Rockbridge is where I wanted to send it too but they are not taking any pods in.

[Mike Lee]

Please understand that I am not putting you down for any reason and especially because you " don't have exceptional plants, rare plants or what not." . It was never my intention to do anything other than to say that you could learn more about pods and gain a greater understanding from other sources rather than subjecting your plant to a great deal of unnecessary stress. As a beginner grower it would help you immensely to accept at least some advice without the notion that it is a criticism.

My offer of seed is 100 % genuine and you can use the seed as you would use the pod to have flasking done for you. Flasking is not a difficult process with the correct equipment and de-flasking needs no special equipment - aside from confidence.

[Greybeard]

Glad to have you join our forum, it sounds like you have a large operation going, obviously for commercial reasons, I can't wait for more posts from you so that we may all learn from your experience with orchids. I think though that Vanda is wanting to do what many of us would like to try, me as well, and many have done, is our own experiments with flasking and deflasking so that we can learn about our orchids all that we can. Many a backyard astronomer or home botanist has made many a discovery through such experimentation. Someday I dream of maybe making my own award winning cross,not a top priority, more for the thrill of doing it and being able to do it. I like to get my hands dirty to find stuff out and I know I'm not alone. I hope to learn about orchids from you and everyone else here on the forum because none of us is an expert, orchids and life, they're always full of suprises

[Leafmite]

Welcome aboard, Mike! Great to have you join the forum. I look foward to your knowledge being shared here. We just had a speaker at our OS that crosses orchids to get certain qualities for his cut floral trade. His speech was all about unflasking. It was neat but I think I'd really have to have a winner in mind to do it. I do cutting of my herbs and jasmines and have enough little pots sitting around until they are established enough to give away!

[tangers40]

Originally Posted by Mike Lee

"not everyone is in this hobby to produce "exceptional specimen plants" or "amazing crosses" or even to win awards.": Me neither. All I want to do is grow orchids as well as I can in my situation.

"and i'd like to see some sources for your claim that plants produce one pod, then die. that's kinda like saying when a woman is pregnant, her body "believes" she is dying, so that when the baby arrives, her body declines and she dies. ": Really? Aren't you confusing human genetics with plant genetics. May I suggest you read up a little on the botany of orchids or flowering plants in general if you want to learn the difference.

Aerangis luteo-alba var. rhodosticta is one orchid that is well known for losing viability after podding and is only one of the miniature monopodials that have that reputation.

All I have suggested is that the plant will grow better without the pod. I would rather see large healthy plants rather than plants that have suffered. They suffer enough with us putting them in pots and growing them out of their environment. You will also note that I did genuinely offer seeds to Vanda Obsession should she wish to have them

Tangers 40 you have all the fun you want with your plants and in doing so learn from those much more experienced than you are.

i guess i'm having a hard time understanding why you can come in here with such an attitude. sure, you may have more experience in whatever than some of us, but does that mean you can cop an attitude with us? no. i don't appreciate the snark. this isn't the place for it. we're a friendly community that gets along well with each other, from those with "lots of experience" to those just getting started with their first orchid. i think you're starting off on the wrong foot.

[Mike Lee]

Thanks for your comments Greybeard & Leafminer you have taken my comments for what they were: innocent advice.

In so far as Tangers 40 goes if he/she believes they are a friendly community member I will never need an enemy. If any snipe was made surely it was in response to fallacious statements made in his/her posts. Who started off on the wrong foot? If you reread my posts you will see that it was not me.

Remember Tangers 40

PHP Code:

A winner listens, a loser just waits until it is their turn to talk. 


I look forward to participating in future. By the way I am nothing more than an experienced/obsessive amateur who learned virtually all I know from the advice of others. Not all advice is good but what is left is usuaally pretty good.

[jsehorn]

Here's an article with a chart that includes average seep pod maturation time for most genera of commonly grown orchids:

http://www.phytotechlab.com/pdf/Orch...ermination.pdf

[EDIT]

Oops my bad, that chart doesn't include Brassavola. Here's another one that includes Brassavola

http://orchidlady.com/pages/orchidGa...aturation.html

You said you don't want to flask on your own. I've used this service before http://always-orchids.com/flaskingservice.htm and have been very pleased with their services and the results, and the prices are quite reasonable.

[vanda_obsession]

Originally Posted by Mike Lee

My offer of seed is 100 % genuine and you can use the seed as you would use the pod to have flasking done for you. Flasking is not a difficult process with the correct equipment and de-flasking needs no special equipment - aside from confidence.

I may take you up on that offer.

[katrina]

WOW! Sorry I missed the fireworks here.

No more snarky from anyone please.

Vanda and Tangers -- please remember that it's very easy to read the wrong "emotion" into words. I've done it...I think a lot of us have done it at least once. I see that you both read Mike's posting as a put down however, I (and a few others) read his post as a simple question and concern for the plant. Nothing more...nothing less.

Moving forward let's all play nicely together....please.

Mike -- as late as this is...Welcome to Geeks! I also look forward to seeing and hearing more from you.

[vanda_obsession]

yes, I agree that reading something sounds much differently than actually saying something to someone in person... My apologies for jumping the gun, but I'm not gonna lie is hurt my feelings a little bit because it sounded like a bit of a put down because I am experimenting with the pod to see how things go.

[jsehorn]

I've made a few crosses, and most of them have been rather mediocre, but I do it because it's fun. I love the anticipation of finally finding out what you ended up with when they finally start to bloom. As an amateur grower (I've been growing for 15 years, but I've only dabbled in making my own crosses) I am not privy to the finer points of orchid hybridization. But I myself currently have a capsule (well, not a capsule yet, I just pollinated it a couple weeks ago, but it looks like the pollination took) of a cross that I did. Maybe I won't get anything spectacular out of it, but maybe I will. Either way, it's just fun.

Yes, flasking probably isn't that hard, but it does require equipment, and for me, because I so rarely do this, the cost of the equipment is greater than the cost of just sending my pod off to the lab and let them do it. I'm not expecting to produce a plant that the AOS will award with an FCC. I just wanna experiment and have fun.

[vanda_obsession]

I really just don't want to spend the money to get the things I need for flasking... I dont have room, we will be moving soon, and I'm a busy full time worker and college student paying for tuition and books all out of pocket for the next two years... then 3 years will all be loans.... Time and money isn't on my side (most of the time..) lol.

[jsehorn]

Lindsey, you experiment and you have fun, and it will be a rewarding learning experience. Don't let anybody discourage you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with what you are doing.

[vanda_obsession]

Thank you jsehorn

[Leafmite]

The floral trade guy does his own crosses because what he wants is different from what show judges want. It's not so different from what you guys are doing. I had a rose that came up from a hip I missed and it is a little rose, not remarkable in color, but has a wonderful scent. Definitely not a prizewinner but I like fragrant roses.

[Epipactis12]

There is a lot of research on different learning styles. Howard Gardner describes at least 9 styles, one of which is the naturalist who learns by direct observation. Mendel, Darwin, many others come to mind. Seems like both Lindsey and Mike and many of the rest of us geeks fall into this group. See how smart we are???

[jsehorn]

Me too! I've learned more about orchid hybridization through experimentation than I could ever learn from reading articles about it. We are pretty brilliant

I mean, reading articles written my experienced professionals is undeniably an important step, because learning the theory is important, but in order to learn the practical aspects of anything, I think hands on experimentation is necessary. Well, it is for me at least.

In the process of experimentation, you win some and you lose some. I imagine very few people have ever won any kind of award for the first cross they ever made, but the important part is that you learn something from the process, which gives you the skills you need to do a better job in the future.

[Greybeard]

Originally Posted by Mike Lee

My offer of seed is 100 % genuine and you can use the seed as you would use the pod to have flasking done for you. Flasking is not a difficult process with the correct equipment and de-flasking needs no special equipment - aside from confidence.

I tell you what, if I had the money I would jump on that offer in "Two shakes of a dogs leg" Now thats a funny cliche My day to join you flaskers will come

[katrina]

I'll take a different stance...I prefer to spend my time on something that has a good shot at being great. Time and space are two precious commodities in my life right now and I don't want to spend either of those two things on something unless there's a good chance...it'll be really good.

Of course we all buy plants that aren't in bloom and you just never know until those first blooms begin to appear. I am still very much in the early years of growing orchids and I still have MUCH to learn when it comes to what is "good" and what isn't but I have dumped plants that have less than ideal flowers so I'm not going to go through all that work for something just for the fun of it.

Just another side to the whole thing here...it's not a put down nor is it a condemnation for those who like the fun of it all.

[Greybeard]

That's why I love you folks here and our orchids, the diversity is enough to satisfy all of our personalities and desires and thirst for understanding our orchids. Me, I want it all, ALL I say! Oops, did I say that Nah, I'm not that greedy

[jsehorn]

Not taken as a putdown at all, Katrina. You like what you like, and other people like what they like.

I like to learn through experimentation. I mean, I select the plants I cross based upon characters I like from each plant that I think could combine nicely together. I don't go in blind and cross any old plant I have in bloom with any other plant I have in bloom. I haven't produced anything I think is award worthy so far, but I learn something every time, and maybe eventually I actually will end up with something spectacular.

The process of experimentation is exciting enough for me to make it worthwhile, but I also respect your dedication to excellence.

[Brooke]

How many have you flasked and grown out?

Brooke

[jsehorn]

Three. The first one, none of the seedlings survived, and of the other two, only one resulted in anything worth keeping, but it was fun all three times. That's part of the learning experience. The first cross was a failure and they all died. The second cross, although I had a few seedlings live, the cross was ill considered and the results weren't that great. The third one produced two plants that I thought were worth keeping. The more experience I gain, the better I get it, and I'm sure the next one will be even better!