Another Poor man's flasking experiment

[orchids4me]

Hello everyone,
Forevermango inspired me to try this experiment.
He used green seed from the crucifix orchid, and many had asked if he'd done it with dry seed and other types of orchids.
Well I'm using dry seed from 2 different seed pods given to me by Ysa. She told me these were pods from hard cain type Dens. I started these 2 jars with seed from each pod on 1/18/2011. I know one looks like mold in the pic I noticed that too but it isn't. Whhen I put the seed in the jar sprinkling it from the coffee filters that ones seed came out in mass clumps that I couldn't control unless I had some sort of sterile tiny scoop so it fell in that way and looks like that.
I boiled the jars and lids, and pre soaked the coco chips for a week and a half rinsing it every other day to get salts out and with portion using soaked and rinsed a few times last 24 hrs with distilled water. Put the coco chip in the jars with a touch of distilled water since I didn't have rain water like stephen. Sprinkled in the seed and closed the jars. I've had the jars on a shelf in front of my seedling lights about 4 to 5 inches from it since that day 1/18/2011. I haven't seen any change yet and no mold so were good so far.
Thanks everyone for checking this out
Special thanks to Ysa for the seed, and thanks Stephen. For the inspiration.
Emmaye

[Ron]

You are a very brave soul, all them flasks you have been deflasking and now this project, hope all goes well with it.
My Phallie pods are still growing and I am going to get a flasking service to do the hard work for.
Best of luck

[orchidea]

I sure want to know if it's going to work for you....
Sounds like you have nothing to loose, so it's worth trying....
Please let us know....

[orchids4me]

Thanks Ron, I will keep up dates on it. Stephens from green seed took 8 months to germinate, he mentioned dry seed may be quicker so I guess we will see how it goes if it works at all
Thanks Orchidea, your right, nothing to loose I'm hoping the seed is viable first off just to see if it works we will never know unless we see germination for good seed and or if it works for Dens this way hard to say but time will tell and if I get more seed I will try different kinds this way and the normal flasking way with a kit also.
Thanks both of you for your interest in this project.
Emmaye

[Frankco]

Interesting Orchids4me. I didn't know you could germinate orchid seeds this way. I figured you would have to have some nutrients or sugar in there to get the seeds to germinate. Maybe there's the right type of fungus on the coco chips to help the seeds along??? Cool. I'll be interested in hearing how it goes.

[Forever-mango]

Cool! Your giving the dry seeds a go

Im waiting for my next pods to be ready.

I think its sort of representing the ways they germinate in nature.

They find a good spot and they germinate.

Its worth a try
Stephen

[Frankco]

It seems to have worked for Forever Mango. I wonder if the rain water he added had some mycorrhizal fungus spores in it to help things along. Orchid seeds don't do well on their own without a little help from the fungus.

Didn't realize that was you right above me Stephen:-) Did you sterilize the rain water?

Not sure if this is allowed, posting links which show the URL to my Nursery so, I won't. Not meant as a self promotional post. Heck, not much gets sold on my site and right now, it's more of a hobby spawned from another hobby, plant tissue culture, than a real business. Actually, the videos are more of plug for the Orchid Seedbank Project then anything.

Anyway, I posted 3 videos on how I do orchid flasking. Not meant as a end all guide, just one hobbyist's, me, way of flasking orchids. There are many ways to flask orchids. If it works then stick with it.

Sorry, the videos are quite long (52 minutes total). Search Orchid Flasking on YouTube and you will find them as there is absolutely nothing else there on the subject. It's fun and easier than most think. That's why I put the videos up there, to help get one started in this wonderful hobby.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by Frankco

It seems to have worked for Forever Mango. I wonder if the rain water he added had some mycorrhizal fungus spores in it to help things along. Orchid seeds don't do well on their own without a little help from the fungus.

Didn't realize that was you right above me Stephen:-) Did you sterilize the rain water?

Not sure if this is allowed, posting links which show the URL to my Nursery so, I won't. Not meant as a self promotional post. Heck, not much gets sold on my site and right now, it's more of a hobby spawned from another hobby, plant tissue culture, than a real business. Actually, the videos are more of plug for the Orchid Seedbank Project then anything.

Anyway, I posted 3 videos on how I do orchid flasking. Not meant as a end all guide, just one hobbyist's, me, way of flasking orchids. There are many ways to flask orchids. If it works then stick with it.

Sorry, the videos are quite long (52 minutes total). Search Orchid Flasking on YouTube and you will find them as there is absolutely nothing else there on the subject. It's fun and easier than most think. That's why I put the videos up there, to help get one started in this wonderful hobby.

I will defiantly check those out
Do you make the flasking media from scratch ?I've been searching for recipes to make it at home. I do know one type uses banana and another coco nut milk but can't find any recipes....
Thanks for the utube info
Emmaye

[Frankco]

Hey Emmaye, nah, I went the easy route and bought prepackaged media. The media I used in the vid is OspEX 1.0. Aaron Hicks uses this for replating 99% of his orchids. Aaron probably has more variety of orchids in vitro than anyone in the world. His lab spent years and countless number of flasks developing this media. It works extremely well. Now it may be too strong for some orchids. Works well as is on Cattleya, Epi Nocturnum, Dendrobium and Cymbidium.

This list contains serveral homemade formulas. Look for the "home bews".

I can't put a URL in here yet but search mcsg database from Google.

[zaeem]

Good Luck!Seems a good project to experiement.

[steam fire and ice]

Emmaye,
Im just now seeing this post. Funny how Im behind the loop on seeing it. Im definately going to follow this one too. Hubby finally caved and said I could get a home flasking kit for my birthday if thats what I wanted..... I just totally cant make up my mind yet. Did you get either one of the Aaron Hicks books? Ive been doing so much research, I just wanted to get an idea of what Im getting into before I decided to dabble into the fun of science experiements for adults. ha ha ha.
I do recommend checking out the videos on you tube if you havent. I actually watched all three of his videos about a month ago, even before I knew he was on the boards. (found that out today too) I felt like they have given me a pretty good idea on doing it at home.
So how are your flasks doing now? Any signs? It looks like I will have 3 seed pods in another 4 months to get to start to playing with myself. Another 3 seed pods after that, and my japonica should be ready to go about the same time as the second set. If my seed pods continue like they have been so far.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by steam fire and ice

Emmaye,
Im just now seeing this post. Funny how Im behind the loop on seeing it. Im definately going to follow this one too. Hubby finally caved and said I could get a home flasking kit for my birthday if thats what I wanted..... I just totally cant make up my mind yet. Did you get either one of the Aaron Hicks books? Ive been doing so much research, I just wanted to get an idea of what Im getting into before I decided to dabble into the fun of science experiements for adults. ha ha ha.
I do recommend checking out the videos on you tube if you havent. I actually watched all three of his videos about a month ago, even before I knew he was on the boards. (found that out today too) I felt like they have given me a pretty good idea on doing it at home.
So how are your flasks doing now? Any signs? It looks like I will have 3 seed pods in another 4 months to get to start to playing with myself. Another 3 seed pods after that, and my japonica should be ready to go about the same time as the second set. If my seed pods continue like they have been so far.

Hi Cyndi
Nothing happening yet and don't know if the seed is viable so still waiting....... Don't have a microscope handy to check the seed lol. So the hard way it is.
Thanks for an authors name I've been wanting to get books and a real flasking kit too. What key words did you use for U tube. I'm not a member to it but keri is.
When I get one more jelly jar I got some rain water from the last storm so I'm going to try with that like stephen did. I would love to find a media recipe to try and make some. I find names and types. But no recipes so I will have to buy one too to try out some seed that way too.
Aug will be the 8 month mark for these flasks. Stephen used green seed I used dry of hard cane Dens that Ysa sent me. So fingers crossed something starts sprouting if this works
Thanks for checking this out
Emmaye

[steam fire and ice]

you dont have to be a member to u tube, to find most of the videos, I think just to upload your own. To find the videos just put in orchid flasking and they should be the first ones to pop up. They really were great to watch.

Im such a nerd when it comes to I want to read about it, and see it visually, and if in person too before I jump into things if I can. I am turning into such an orchid geek, my family all ask me about orchids, and I probably bore them to death because I could talk for hours about the ones Im growing and what I am learning.

I think I may have a microscope that kids use to look at stuff so I dont think that would help you out any. ha ha. see more proof Im a nerd!!

Maybe we can compare notes once we start at home and see how that goes for us both. Im wondering if I would need some grow lights for them, or if since I put my stuff in an east facing window, if that would work. ohhhh the choices!!!!!!!!!

[Bolero]

Interesting experiment, keep us posted!

[steam fire and ice]

How are things going Emmaye? any changes so far?

[orchids4me]

Hi cyndi,
No change yet in 5 months today. I used distilled water I did collect some rain water earlier in the season to try again with. But the other thing to is I don't know if the seed was viable I used so I may try with something different. I'm going to go the route Franko up there did and click on his name. His u tube vidieos are excellent tutorials for using the osp meda and how to flask I wish he had those for sale . Hint hint Franko Only thing I need t ask him is what the bleach concentration is in his squirt bottle he didn't say in the video for that one. But his videos are he's wonderful for putting that info out there.
Emmaye

[steam fire and ice]

I know, I told ya his utubes were spot on. I think between that and the book I got, I will be ok once I get some of the supplies. I am debating on plastic containers or baby food jars. I was going to try a green pod using the poor man's flask myself here, and use natural sunlight on them. Plus I have some weird chips, not coco chips that some of my orchids were put in, I saved them thinking maybe some of the growing bacteria will help out with trying that way too. I have a Phal, that the three pods are close to being ready now, so I am kinda excited to give it a go. I had a scary thought the other day, what am I going to do with all these flask babies if they take......... Ok now I shall have to check on sending flasks, oh boy am I ever going to be in trouble.....

[BluPeaches]

Emmaye, I have a link that has a lot of info about home flasking. If you want it I can send it to you, let me know.

Keep us updated on this. Good on you for experimenting.

[orchids4me]

Originally Posted by BluPeaches

Emmaye, I have a link that has a lot of info about home flasking. If you want it I can send it to you, let me know.

Keep us updated on this. Good on you for experimenting.

Yes , yes, yes, please do you still have my email addy ?
I'm really getting into this and getting osp media now too for some seed pods other members are giving me may try both ways also agar and porrman's
Thank you let me know if you still have my email addy or not
Emmaye

[BluPeaches]

I sent you a PM. I hope it's not something you have already looked at, lol.

[Frankco]

Just thought I would pop in as say a couple of things.

OspEx1.0 will not work for all orchids. It will kill some orchids because it's too strong. I just used them for a few species. Phototech's P668 can be diluted and used for some sensitive seeds. Terrestrial seeds are very sensitive to the amount of nitrogen in the media. Look for media developed especially for them.

A quick note about Phals. Phal seeds to not last very long. If you have germination problems then the seeds might be too old. Some say they last about 2 weeks after the pod opens. If you are doing Phals I would research this.

Dr. Joseph Arditti used Knudson C media for most of the orchids he flasked. For him it was cheap and worked very well so, why use something more expensive. You do have to replate your orchids if you use Knudson C because it lacks the micro nutrients to support growth.

That said there are other types of media that might increase the germination rate for certain orchids. Media selections can be found in Aaron's book "Orchid Seed Germination Media". Aaron has more types of orchids in vitro than anyone in the U.S and probably the world. His book is an excellent reference for media selection. He has some references for media selection on his website under Technical Data -> Media selection advice!

For disinfecting seeds I use Dr. Joseph Arditti's standard method of 10% house hold bleach for 10 minutes. That's house hold bleach mixed 1 part to 9 parts distilled water. Some orchid seeds are more sensitive and a weaker solution might be needed. The sugar soak method can come in handy with stubborn to disinfect seeds. Soaking in a solution of sugar mixed 5grams per 100ml for 6 to 12 hours helps. I wouldn't go more than 12 hours but that's just my opinion. I do tend to go up to the 12 hour mark though.

A product called NaDCC will work better than house hold bleach in disinfecting seeds IF, it is mixed in a weaker solution (300mg per liter) and sugar added directly to it. 5 grams of sugar per 100ml of NaDCC solution. Soak the for 12 hours. Rinse with 3% hydrogen peroxide, 30% hydrogen peroxide diluted by adding 9 parts water, for 15 minute and then rinse with autoclaved distilled water. This method works well for sensitive seeds. You can find NaDCC by doing a Google search for "Leisure Time 2 lb Spa 56 Chlorinating Granules".

Good luck!

[orchidea]

Thank you Frankco,
I always wanted to thank you for your videos. You put a lot of time into them, and most of us crazy geeks are watching them over, and over, and over.....
I just got P669 from Aaron and hope to flask my Psychopsis seeds when they are ready. One thing I wanted to ask you though, are you using some kind of glove box in your flasking. I think I can see one sitting behind you in the video, but I would like to get away without one, just like you did in the video..
I am looking for a fish tank I can use, but maybe I can do without one for the first flask?
Another thing that bothers me is that Aaron's packet notes "Medium pH adjustment may be required". How in the World do you know if it "may be required" or may be not......
Oh boy, sorry if I am asking stupid Q's.

[orchids4me]

Hey Frankco
Thanks for the info its very helpful. We have several members on here lately venturing into flasking and finding places that flask. Its kind of a hot topic lately
Orchidea just posted above me with some good questions if you can help her we can all learn from it.
Thanks in advance Frankco
Emmaye

[Frankco]

Hi All,
Thanks for the complements on the videos.

Again, the videos are by no means meant to be an expert’s guide to orchid flasking. I’ll leave that up to the experts: -) They are just the way I do things and I posted them because there’s not much out there in the way of videos with hobbyist in mind, at least for free. I wish there was more so everyone could look at different methods, take a bit of one and mix it with another to adapt what works best for them. Maybe there will be more someday. It’s a start anyway.

Plant tissue culture, including orchid flasking, is something I love to do. It has introduced me to so many wonderful people around the world, keeps the mind active and involved and, keeps me young at heart. Hey I’m turning 57 in August and still feel like a kid exploring new things.

I did use a simple homemade glove box made from a 35 gallon aquarium turned on its side. I left the door open to better video tape what’s going on. That said none of the jars I flasked in the video developed contamination.

Many people use a plastic tubs or an aquarium turned on their sides as a clean area for plant tissue culture or orchid flasking. It can be done this way with good results. Of course each level of improvement lowers the risk of contamination. My point being is that it can be done with plastic tubs or aquariums on their sides and you can do it without a glove box. It helps to be in a room with very little are movement. Mine is in a spare bedroom. I’ve tape the vents to the furnace to reduce the air circulation while I’m working. If you do use a tub or aquarium on its side, ware gloves, use precise movements when removing and recapping jars and, don’t leave the lids open for very long.

There are a couple of videos on YouTube that show the use of plastic tubs. YouTuber and all around nice guy Bill Graham (Gardenspout) demonstrates working in one. Search YouTube using “MOV02270 gardenspout”.

I break a lot of rules when it comes to plant tissue culture or orchid flasking. I do like to see what I can get away with. I have read so many times that you have to have lab conditions to do this and it’s my way of showing, no you don’t. I’ve tissue cultured plants on my kitchen table with nothing around me just to see if I could. And I did. I have plants growing next to my cultures, a big no no. I have a quarter of a million plants of all types in culture, in my small spare bedroom so I’ve gotten away with a lot: -)

Since I posted the videos I built a laminar flow hood. I’m reluctant about doing a video with it because for me it takes it too far a away from the beginner. If someone told me I’d need a laminar flow hood to do this I would have never started. For me a Laminar Flow Hood is something that will just help me do things faster not necessarily better.

If I do any more videos I think I will just go back to the aquarium on its side with the door open. I can still get clean cultures this way.

Thanks again,
Frank

[Frankco]

Hi orchidea,

"Another thing that bothers me is that Aaron's packet notes "Medium pH adjustment may be required". How in the World do you know if it "may be required" or may be not"

I might run that question by Aaron but I think he put that on the lable because different orchids requrire a different pH and adjustments may be needed if you add other ingredients to the media, like coconut water, bananas etc.

A pH between 5.2 to 5.6 would be a good range to be in for seed germination of most orchids.

OspEx1.0 is buffered and does not need pH adjustment unless you add other things.

You can test the media with pH paper and adust with vinegar or baking soda if needed.

Frank

[orchidea]

Originally Posted by Frankco

Since I posted the videos I built a laminar flow hood. I’m reluctant about doing a video with it because for me it takes it too far a away from the beginner. If someone told me I’d need a laminar flow hood to do this I would have never started. For me a Laminar Flow Hood is something that will just help me do things faster not necessarily better.

If I do any more videos I think I will just go back to the aquarium on its side with the door open. I can still get clean cultures this way.

Thanks again,
Frank

Thank you so much! If only you can lead me to the videos or ideas of "how to build a Laminar Flow Hood", please. I bet yours is simple and reasonably easy to build....... I did find some info, but I was just wondering what you did......
And ............THANK YOU so much for telling us that the flasks that you flasked in the videos are clean!!!! Then, I think I can do it without the Glove Box..................