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Old 02-14-2012, 03:54 AM
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microbes from other species?

Im not quite ready to try yet, but I am curious to know if the microbes from one kind of orchid can be used to germinate another species. One of my orchids was (legally cuz Im not after buying contraband) collected in the wild and still has its microbe enriched dirt. Can I use some of the dirt from that plant to grow seeds from one of my domestically raised varieties without agar?
No ripe pods to try with at the moment, but i am very curious if it is possible and may want to try when some of the current blooms set seeds.
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Old 02-14-2012, 05:05 AM
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Is a very good question I to am a (beginner) flasker I don't have soil from natural habitats but if it ever occurs it be an interesting experiment. If I was you I'd research what other orchids grow in the same area as the one you have if the same genera or other species it just might work
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Old 02-14-2012, 01:03 PM
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the wild one is my calypso, so probably other western species?
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Old 03-05-2012, 08:15 AM
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You may be able to germinate a number of different plants using one particular symbiont fungus but it isn't guaranteed even if they are from similar areas. You may also have better luck if you can isolate the fungus and innoculate flasks of low-nutrient agar. Sowing into the parent plant's potting media works well for some species but the vast majority will show quite poor germination rates doing so. I can suggest some places to gather further info if you want.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:31 AM
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Funny thing - in the spiranthes thread I actually ended up finding the (sorta) answer to my question. Most (not all) terrestrials use the same fungus, particularly related species. I found it in a journal if microbiology article studying the relationship between symbiots and hosts. For the orchids, they were actually using a spiranthes, which is how I stumbled on it in my google search. Anyway, researched from the fungus name and discovered it is the most widespread symbiot of soil-growing orchids. (God, how did we live without Google?!?) Anyhow, its not 100%, but Im willing to give it a whirl. Flasking next. Just as soon as I stop buying new plants long enough to buy the media. I want to try the silicone injection thing since I have most of the other equipment and materials and it sounds easier than bleaching my whole room and cheaper than buying a glove box.
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Old 03-06-2012, 02:35 AM
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Was it you who was making the silicone membranes in the lids to work like the top of an injectable medicine bottle?
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:53 AM
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Yeah... still an experiment. It seems to work ok for germination but I had a couple of flasks go backwards so I think a replate may be required once they are sprouted.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:50 PM
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I thought that was such a cool idea, and even if not all the flasks go perfect, its still a great method for those who lack the space and money to make a "clean room".
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Old 03-17-2012, 02:41 AM
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Sooo... I got my spiranthes australis seed in the mail the other day. Just in case it doesnt work, I only used about 1/4 of the seed (the rest is storing in the fridge until I order flask media). I took soil that I saved from my Spiranthes odorata and added a smidge of the peat saved out of the pot from the encyclia that I mounted, moistened it real good and put it in a food container like is sometimes used in flasking. If this works I intend to use the method on the cymbidium seeds that will come from the pods on my plants (pollinated last week and the stems are swelling so Im pretty sure it took). Hopefully there is enough of the required fungus to make 'em sprout. If not I still have 100 seeds to grow in agar media like a "normal" orchid. In fact, I will try flasking even if it works because it just sort of appeals to my inner mad scientist, and I have some nepenthis seed for my son that needs agar flasking to sprout well anyway.
Does anyone know what timeframe I can maybe expect?
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Old 03-17-2012, 11:36 AM
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Germination should be aparrent within about 6 weeks... you'll get little green globules which slowly grow leaves and roots.
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Old 03-17-2012, 01:31 PM
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That's not too bad, since I've read some orchid seeds take months. I was so totally prepared to wait until October for germination!

Ooh. I'm so excited.

I've been coveting the one you posted ever since seeing the thread, but I can't find live plants that will ship to the US, so I'm just going to grow them from seed since it sounds like they are relitively quick to bloom compaired to some of the epiphytes (I think it said 18 to 24 months?).

So, what do I do with the extras though if I end up germinating like 50 of them? I got over 150 seeds, and while I sure don't expect them all to sprout, even a 20% germination rate would give me more than I could house (well, I could fit them, but then I would be wasting space for OTHER species!). Lol.
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Old 03-18-2012, 09:58 PM
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Are you SERIOUS, Christia? You know there are a bunch of geeks that would be glad to help you house any extra babies!

First dibs!! That spiranthes was spectacular!
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:57 PM
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a couple of us in the central california orchid society are collecting terrestrial species, and would love to have that one. if you get good germination, maybe we could arrange a trade.
what part of central california are you in?
also, I believe one member of the society has grown spiranthes from seed. I can put you in touch with him, if you'd like to exchange information.

Last edited by kip; 03-18-2012 at 11:02 PM.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:07 PM
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I will gladly disperse extras when the babies sprout. As it is I am preparing some den keikis (roiting them better) and some extra Sp. odorata so that I can give or trade for new plants. I live in Bakersfield, but I travel up through Fresno every summer to camp in Shaver Lake, so I can carry an orchid or to allong for the ride.
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Old 03-19-2012, 01:11 PM
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Oh. I will also have devisions off my intergeneric after the blooms are done and my gimongous NOID cymbidiums, as well as a division of Enc. tampensis (outgrowing the mount).
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:14 AM
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@*$%&!!! You just reminded me I left some just-about-to-split pods of a Sarc hybrid in my shadehouse on the weekend. I hope they haven't dehisced into the wind!!!
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Old 03-20-2012, 02:59 AM
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Save the seeds! I can't wait to start getting pods on mine. I have pollinated a few flowers on each of my plants that was large enough that I was sure it wouldn't be hard on mommy. Fortunately a few look promising thus far, and I can't help checking daily for any progress. I am really excited for my terrestrial species, as I intend to use them as bait to draw in more new unsuspecting potential addicts, plus some of them are just fantasticly cool. That and I am buying a house (finally!), and intend to set aside a special area to grow a few tolerant ones outside.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:36 PM
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glad to know somebody else is planning on growing outside in this climate.
You might want to look into a variety of tuberous terrestrials, that survive winters underground: Anacamptis, Dactylorhiza, Gymnadenia, Orchis, Ophrys, Bletilla.
Some Phaius and Calanthe (specifically the ones from Japan or Southern China) will also do well outside, if you keep them in a fairly sheltered and shady spot.
Let me know what you find that grows well outside. I'm sure we'll trade sometime.
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Old 03-20-2012, 07:52 PM
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Cristia what microbe exactly would you be looking for? I thought I read, but cannot find it now, that is was mycorrhizae ???
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Old 03-21-2012, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cristia View Post
Save the seeds! I can't wait to start getting pods on mine. I have pollinated a few flowers on each of my plants that was large enough that I was sure it wouldn't be hard on mommy. Fortunately a few look promising thus far, and I can't help checking daily for any progress. I am really excited for my terrestrial species, as I intend to use them as bait to draw in more new unsuspecting potential addicts, plus some of them are just fantasticly cool. That and I am buying a house (finally!), and intend to set aside a special area to grow a few tolerant ones outside.
Well, the Sarc pods hadn't split yet so that was good but it prompted me to check on a Den I had crossed. Unfortunately the pod on the Den had dropped its guts all over my greenhouse floor
Luckily I had only been waiting about 8 months for it to ripen.
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:11 AM
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ouch on the den! Now you are going to find tiny dendrobiums in all your pots in a couple months. :/ Or maybe even on the floor if they are lithophytic ones...
As for the fungus, I will look it up tomorrow at work. I have the link saved on my PC so I can pull it up again.
One of the terrestrials I intend to plant is my Bletilla striata "Big Bob', and I want to get a few more in other varieties to grow with it. A coworker said she had luck with the large cymbidiums out here as long as they were sheltered from the sun. Want to also try my bamboo orchids in sunk pots and I can dig them up to bring them inside each fall. Might try one of the spiranthes odorata if I can provide enough shade too.
Lol. Im already buying materials for a home made greenhouse, both for the orchids and the other exotics like my taccas and plumerias. I sort of am reaching that point where there just isnt going to ever be enough window space no matter where I live!
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:43 AM
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I am quite annoyed about it to be honest. It was a cross of Den Mingles Sapphire and Den densiflorum which are vastly different plants and I was quite curious to see what would come of it. I suspect I was actually lucky to even get a pod form. Well... what can I do? I guess I'll have to try again assuming I can get those 2 plants to flower at the same time!! Who knows, you could be right and I might get a seedling come up in my greenhouse. Better chance than if the seed dispersed in my yard I guess. I'm still not holding my breath.
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Old 03-21-2012, 02:53 AM
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That stinks. Well, I hope you get lucky and a few little dens volunteer. Seeds are all about the right conditions, and a greenhouse is the best place for them to sprout outside the 'perfect' conditions of a flask.
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Old 03-21-2012, 12:34 PM
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It is called Epulorhiza repens.
Study found higher germination in agar, but better survival rate with fungus.
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