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-   -   Do hybrids cross/ what species cross? (http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/orchid-flasking-and-seed-germination-7/do-hybrids-cross-what-species-cross-10047/)

Stelios 01-28-2009 07:30 AM

Do hybrids cross/ what species cross?
 
Hi i was reading about flasking and i think although a demanding process it's something i would like to try.

Before anything i need seeds so here's my first question on the matter. Both my phal are NOID and possibly hybrids. Are hybrids fertile? Can i use pollen from one hybrid phal to pollinate the other?

Second question is on species. Can pollination occur between different spiecies eg phalaenopsis and oncidium? What kind of orchids are "compatible"? (i saw someone posting a photo of a dendrobium-phalaenopsis so if not a nick name... crossbreeding is possible?

Anton 01-28-2009 07:40 AM

Stick with tried and tested species. Don't go off on a tangent or will have trouble.

The Dendrobium Phalaenopsis is known as a Phalaenanthe type Dendrobium.

Willowbanks is the person to talk to about breeding and I think the hairs on his neck would rise with what you suggest.

Flasking is not something to be taken lightly, it is a very involved process that requires the most stringent of hygenic procedures and knowledge of what you are doing, and what you are trying to achieve.

Having seen Willowbanks setup and another friend of mine, Kevin Western who does it on a commercial scale, and what is involved, I have no intentions of doing it myself.

My advice, leave it to the experts unless you know what you are doing.

patticake 01-28-2009 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stelios (Post 118457)
Hi i was reading about flasking and i think although a demanding process it's something i would like to try.

Before anything i need seeds so here's my first question on the matter. Both my phal are NOID and possibly hybrids. Are hybrids fertile? Can i use pollen from one hybrid phal to pollinate the other?

Second question is on species. Can pollination occur between different spiecies eg phalaenopsis and oncidium? What kind of orchids are "compatible"? (i saw someone posting a photo of a dendrobium-phalaenopsis so if not a nick name... crossbreeding is possible?

Wow...That's a subject that needs a lot more space than I have! The phalaenopsis type dendrobium, refers to the bloom shape on that type of dendrobium. Those 2 are not compatible. There are some species that can cross, but I can't begin to start listing....Do you have access to orchid books? I did a lot of reading on this subject in different books. I would give that a try. :)

Sorry Anton, We must have been posting at the same time...

jerrymeola 01-28-2009 07:46 AM

Almost every orchid can cross within its own group and many have been crossed between widely different families. I would guess that eventually it will be shown that all can be crossed.

Hybrids cross very easily.

Most people would not cross NoIDs since they could not be registered if they turned out well.

Keep in mind that it takes 3-8 years to grow a seed to flowering depending on the type of orchid. Patience is necessary. If you have read about flasking then you already know how difficult it is without a lab. Good luck.

Stelios 01-28-2009 07:51 AM

i think i see what you both say. No i have no experience, i just started reading about propagation and flasking yesterday on the web (but just the basic toothpick involving pollination and how to sterilize everything for sowing.

Sorry for the torture Willowbanks. I'll reed more before trying anything out.

The problem is that most of my plants are NOID possibly hybrids. Except if the "valentine's day gift?" thread proves an actual gift and the plants are species.

I read that some people believe crossbreading at home without proper tracking of parents is discouraged. Als even if a wonderful plant is the outcome, it can not take a name.

Stelios 01-28-2009 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jerrymeola (Post 118460)
Almost every orchid can cross within its own group and many have been crossed between widely different families. I would guess that eventually it will be shown that all can be crossed.

Hybrids cross very easily.

Most people would not cross NoIDs since they could not be registered if they turned out well.

Keep in mind that it takes 3-8 years to grow a seed to flowering depending on the type of orchid. Patience is necessary. If you have read about flasking then you already know how difficult it is without a lab. Good luck.

i think we were posting simultaneously here. Thank you for this insight. Yes i kow it's very demanding. Keeping everything sterile is not a problem as i have access to medical equipment and disposables. I can handle the 3-8 years effort as compensation in the form of having "created" a living organism and grew it is very rewarding.

I'll read a bit more though before i do anything.

FLBob 01-28-2009 08:39 AM

I might suggest to start the process in reverse, I assume that you are just starting with blooming size orchids. Next try bringing seedlings to blooming size, then purchase a flask and raise those plants.
I discovered that the skills and time to raise small plants to blooming size is very different from those needed to be successful with mature orchids.

jerrymeola 01-28-2009 09:20 AM

Bob makes a very good point that the care necessary for growing an orchid at different stages is very different.

I am a commercial nursery and will not even try raising plants from flasks. It requires a constant monitoring not to let the plants dry too much or rot from too much water. If I was doing 10s of thousands a year it would be worth the effort but not for a couple of thousand plants. Fortunately, there are labs here in Florida that will grow my seeds to 2 inch plug trays.

You can do both at once. Plants will live in the flask for the first 12-18 months so you can start a flask and buy a flask to learn its requirements while your seeds are maturing. Once plants have reached about 3 inches their care is similar to an adult plant.

Stelios 01-28-2009 09:30 AM

Thanks Jerry. It's very dificult (i have not found any online) to find a sowing service or a seedling seller localy. Laws are very strict regarding live plants and especially orchids need some documentation to travel between EU countries. I guess it will be easy to buy flasks and medium but flasked plants will be very dificult.
I bought an orhid from Scotland and i had to be visiting the customs caring for the plant under supervision until i got the documents 10 days later stating it was raised in nursery and not a wild plant.


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