Monster Catt. To repot, or not....

[Danelady]

I have a large Catt that is growing out of its pot. I bought it this way back in September. I guess it likes what I'm doing for it now because today when I watered it I counted 7 new growths!!!! This 'chid is already hard to manage. It has to go into the tub to be watered!! It will be monstrous if 7 new growths mature. On the other hand, it's doing so well I hate to disturb it!!! I was hoping to get the opinion of some of the geek experts here!!

[dounoharm]

i vote to repot...its unmanageable...

[Tarad]

WOW what a monster. Do I see sheaths? Has it ever bloomed for you? I would repot/divide, but I am no expert. Tara

[Danelady]

There are a couple of sheaths. They are on growths that were a couple of inches long when I bought the plant.
It had blooms and buds when I bought it, but has not rebloomed for me. The small new growths that were there when I bought it have grown.
The 7 new growths are all very small (<1/2") so I am confident that these have occured under my care! Very exciting for me!!!
Do catts only bloom once a year or do they bloom as each growth matures??

[LauraGR]

I had a monster orchid (C Boweringeana) that I inherited from a friend who died. It had been stuck in a huge pot but it was all roots, and the root mass was about 14" high. I left it alone for a year or so (I was sort of afraid of it!!), and it bloomed a little bit, and bloomed a bit more the next year after I trimmed a bunch of roots and some old branches off, but then last spring I ripped it up - probably 70-80% dead roots, and there in the middle was the old plastic 4" pot! I now have 3 plants sending up new shoots, and I expect I will have buds by spring. I threw out probably 70% of the plant, but it's manageable again, and I expect it will flower better starting next year. Also deep down in the root mass (mess) was the tag, So only this year did it become NOT a NOID! and I found out it came originally from Oak Hill. So I am excited to see they are coming to the Como Park Orchid Show on Jan 23-25.

[Tarad]

Catts bloom once a year. How long have you had this plant? Tara

[Danelady]

I got it this past September. So, if I repot it should have plenty of time to do everything it needs to do and be ready to bloom again next fall???

[FLBob]

The bloom cycle of hybrids will depend on the parentage. I have some that bloom once a year some that bloom 2-3 times a year.

I like to keep my catts as large as possible. If that was mine I think I'd soak it out of the pot. Clean off the old mix and put it into a large basket with a medium like large aliflor and charcoal. Something that won't break down. You have a great specimen plant there.

When you take it out of the existing pot you may find a couple of places that you can take off some smaller pieces (5-7 psudobulbs), but I'd try to keep a big plant.

[Hummer344]

What a monster. & pretty healthy looking. Some cats will blossom more than once a year. You could look it up on the web, post the name here or contact Oak Hill.. I am sure someone would have an answer. IMHO I think it should be taken apart and repotted. My concern is when. My gut feeling is wait until spring when its a tad warmer & the days are longer. BUTTT since you have active growth on it, you may be able to do it now. I am sure others with more knowledge will chime in
David

[jerrymeola]

When Cats get this big they begin to live on the roots outside the pot. As time goes on all the roots in the pot will rot and die. It is the natural order of its life.

It is difficult for you to water the plant in this condition. In a commercial greenhouse with overhead sprinklers on daily timers it got water regularly so it grew in this manner.

Growers will usually cut and divide the plant in this condition. It has been ignored so long that it no longer has the specimen shape of pseudobulbs and leaves. It may still flower well for another year or two but will begin to suffer as it tries to adapt to your new watering methods.

I have about 20 like this on the bench to be worked. We re-pot every day of the year. It is not possible to limit potting by season. However, with a personal collection it is easier for you to re-pot when you see new root growth.

[lmartiny]

Holy sh..... That puppy is big. Looks like the growth on the side could possibly break off in a repot. Maybe try any small pieces on a mount as just discussed in another thread.

[Danelady]

Originally Posted by Hummer344

You could look it up on the web, post the name here or contact Oak Hill.. David

I'm not sure of the name. I could not find any photos online that really matched. Here is a picture from when it bloomed.

[Brooke]

I agree with FlBob, time to repot the monster and with new growth starting, now is the time. You want the new growth roots to go into the pot and not continue on the outside of the pot.

I assume you will soak it in the tub but before I disturbed the root mass, scrub all the brown dried papery growths off the pbulbs. Eliminating the favorite hiding places of bugs is a must for me :>)

FlBob's tutorial on repotting is excellent and should help you get as many of the roots off in good condition as you can. His suggestion of removing some of the older, probably rootless, back pbulbs is another good one because those old pbulbs are capable of regenerating new growth.

You will damage some of the newer roots - don't worry about it. They will regenerate. You will sweat bullets as you do this - don't worry about it. Catts are tough plants.

Good luck - you might even find the name tag buried in the pot but if you don't, you have a beautiful NOID.

Brooke

[Tarad]

Great advice Brooke! Danelady I did a major repot on monster phal and it doing really well right now, so dont worry Tara

[Danelady]

I think I will repot. The new growths are encouraging...I must be doing something right for it!!
The question now is when? So many hobbies, so little time!!!
I will try to post some pictures when I get done.
Any advice is still welcome as I'm sure I will be stressing over the whole procedure!!! I will have to give FLBob's thread a look over again when I get ready!

[FLBob]

A little trick that you may want to consider...
The biggest problem area for large catts is the center of the plant. The sides tend to dry out but the center stays wet. If you want to keep a large plant is a large clay pot, try inverting a small net pot over the center hole, this way you will be able to have the center of the plant dry as quickly as the sides.

[Danelady]

Thanks for that info, FLBob!
I will let everyone know how it goes when I get to it!! (This weekend?)

[Fishmom]

FlBob, what is a net pot? Is it something you made with your landscaping cloth, or purchased?

[FLBob]

Originally Posted by Fishmom

FlBob, what is a net pot? Is it something you made with your landscaping cloth, or purchased?

The net pot is a woven plastic pot, available at most orchid supply places.
You can also use the little plastic baskets that so many Vandas come in.

[FLBob]

I just took a photo of a clay pot with a plastic basket to illustrate the thought.



This isn't a good sizing match, for a specimen plant I'd be using a 12" low profile clay orchid pot.

[patticake]

Someday when I have a greenhouse, and the room, I'll let some of mine go to huge specimens. Right now, I am limited on space, so I would divide it up, and pot up the divisions. Once established, you can either sell them or donate the extras. Keep the best division!

BTW- That's one honker of a plant!!

[digitalgate]

this is for personal preference . I like to cut 4 bulb and get many plant in the process.Sell
the plant away and gather some cash for new plant.

[lmartiny]

I'll be watching Danelady. I've got a new one, not quite as large, but is due I think. I will be interested to see how it goes for you. Mine will have to wait until it is done blooming. I've got FLBob's tutorial to follow when I'm ready.
Good luck.

[bloomorchidguy]

FLBob,

If you are going to repot this plant let me give you an idea to try that works well for me and prolongs the life of many of my large specimens. On Cats, Brassia, and many of my Onc. or I guess anything that is large and in a pot. I first remove the plant from its existing pot and attempt to access the very center of the plant. I usually remove about a 6 to 8 inch size piece from the very center of the large plant.

This center piece usually has at least a few growing points but usually shows the most decline in root growth and could possibly be already rotting. These piece I usually divide up into three or four plants. Then pot them up each individually.

As for the mother plant or specimen, I clean it up as best as possible. Then I take the plant and roll it up. Folding one side into the center were I removed the old growths from and wrapping the other side around it. Then it gets potted up. The next time the plant gets a repot I do the same process.

The benefits to this process are many. First you reduce the likely hood of additional rot and decline of the plant in the center affecting the floral display. Secondly you get the chance to start some back bulb divisions. This has worked out very well for me when I get a plant awarded. I then have some very nice back bulb divisions to sell or give to my friends as a special gift that no one really has after it has been awarded by the AOS.

The downside to this is at some point if you grow the specimen in a pot you end up reaching a point were it is hard to find a pot that doesn't cost you less then $20 or $30 plus shipping. Then it starts to get expensive.

Just this past year my colleague and I had a Brassia Rex "The Gaint" awarded by the AOS in an 18 inch pot with almost 16 inch flowers. It pays to growth them big for the best effect and floral display. I also have some Cats in 15 and 18 pots. These pots start getting expensive given their size and shipping weight. So in return I sell the award divisions to help pay for the large pots needed for some of my plants.

This is a great way to grow your plants into large specimens, cover pots and mix costs, and still have divisions available for others. Plus getting something back in return or trade.

Just an idea.


Troy

[11Orchid126]

If you can't find net pots, packing peanuts in the center of the plant work very well. After you've cleaned up the plant and removed any dead, dried or mushy roots, hold the plant upside down and fill the center with the peanuts. Slip a sheet of plastic wrap or wax paper over it. Put the pot over that. Turn the plant right side up and carefully slip the wrap or paper out. The peanuts will prevent the center of the roots from staying to wet and rotting.

[jerrymeola]

I agree with Troy about the rotting in the center of old Cattleya. I have never tried his method of removing only the center but may try it. I always remove the roots from the center of the Cattleya. Usually they are long dead and rotting.

I bought a Cattleya today (1 of 30 I bought to be divided) and then learned it is one I have been looking for a long time Lc Canhamiana



I am not sure the color variation or if it is the hybrid or the species L canhamiana but cutting it now will hurt.

It is about twice the size of Danelady's. I will see if I can get a series of photos as I do it. At this point I have no idea what I will do but probably a 24 inch basket if I can find one.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

I bought a Cattleya today ... learned it is one I have been looking for a long time Lc Canhamiana ... I am not sure the color variation or if it is the hybrid or the species L canhamiana ...

It's a hybrid Jerry. Sophrocattleya Canhamiana (Cattleya mossiae x Sophronites purpurata). There is no Laelia species with the name canhamiana. If your tag said "Lc" it couldn't be a species anyway because "Lc" indicates an intergeneric and there's no such thing as an intergeneric species.

Being a hybrid there's no varietal name so the "var coerulea" is a misnomer (as well as being misspelled). Hybrids don't have varietal names, only species do. If 'Azure Sky' is a documented cultivar name (someone wiht AQ+ or Orchid Wiz could probably find out for you) then the correct full name of your plant is: Sophrocattleya Canhamiana 'Azure Sky'.

I hope you used my Photoshop tips to make name corrections on photos easier 'cause there's quite a few corrections needing to be made to the name on your pic. Sorry ...

[Danelady]

Well, I got brave and went for it!!! I decided to keep it in one pot and not divide yet.
This was an all day event!!! I don't want to have to do this again any time soon!!

First, I soaked for an hour or so. Here's a pic of the plant in the sink!! I also soaked the medium I potted it in.


I managed to work most of the roots loose on the outside. Then, I ended up sacrificing the pot anyway!! Once I got the pot off and could see what was inside I knew I had made the right decision to repot. That's a lot of roots there!! Most of them were no good. There was very little medium deep on the inside of all those roots. When I first got the pot off I really wasn't sure what to do next!! I finaly decided to just start trying to loosen the roots. I wasn't sure if they were good or not. Once I started working them around I decided most of them were not good!! After I loaded the pics in the computer I noticed the jack-o-lantern pattern in the bottom of the roots!!


This is the finished product!! It looks a lot different! I took off a lot of the papery stuff on the outside. I found a couple more new growths under this. I did have a couple of casualties along the way. I broke off at least 2 of the new growth sprouts. I don't know how this will affect the plant?? Will that be the end of that growth or will it start over?? I opted for a shallower pot. I don't think I have room for 2 years growth since this is such a monster.


Now we wait and see how the plant likes what I did today. Hopefully I didn't harm it!

[Brooke]

Congratulations, it is a beauty. You did a phenominal job.

Sometimes when a new small growth is broken off, the dormant eye in back of that growth will grow. If it doesn't, this plant is big and strong enough to still flourish.

Again, congratulations for turning that huge plant into a very healthy looking plant.

Can you get that type pot in your area or is it an older pot you had on hand. I would love to find a supplier of the bulb type clay orchid pot. Shipping them is a fortune but I love those pots.

Brooke

[Danelady]

Originally Posted by Brooke

Congratulations, it is a beauty. You did a phenominal job.


Can you get that type pot in your area or is it an older pot you had on hand. I would love to find a supplier of the bulb type clay orchid pot. Shipping them is a fortune but I love those pots.

Brooke

Thanks!!

I called the local nursery to see if they had a shallow pot. They said they only had a used one for $2!! What luck!! I did scrub it first!! Honestly I thought finding a good pot would be the hardest part of this process!! Oh, and I haven't been doing this orchid thing long enough to have old pots on hand!!!

[FLBob]

Job well done! the next one gets easier. I think having large over grown catts is a good problem to have....

[kmarch]

Danelady,

You've really done an excellent job on this repotting. I would not have thought to use a larger shallow "pan" like this as my brain's default setting is just a bigger pot. It looks secure and like there's lots of room for growth. Well done! Now next on your list of things to do....flower it! I'm already anticipating the flowers!

[Danelady]

Originally Posted by kmarch

Danelady,

You've really done an excellent job on this repotting. I would not have thought to use a larger shallow "pan" like this as my brain's default setting is just a bigger pot. It looks secure and like there's lots of room for growth. Well done! Now next on your list of things to do....flower it! I'm already anticipating the flowers!

I will be in awe if I can get it to flower!!!!!

[lmartiny]

Nice job. It looks really good. I too like that shallow pot.

[Tommyr]

WOW! Awesome! Both before and after!

[Danelady]

I have lots of new roots and lots of new growth after the repot!! I guess it's happy!!

[PhalPal]

Wow - Look at that!!! Awesome root growth! I guess you did good???
Brooke Home Depot and Lowes has bulb pots this time of year, or your time of year when it's time to pot bulbs. They seem to be a seasonal thing so you might try looking now.

[FLaCo]

I am truly impressed by your efforts. You did a wonderful job at cleaning it up and securing. It looks so healthy. Hope it showers you with blooms.

[lmartiny]

Looks good Danelady. That was some quick growth. I'm still waiting for mine to show some evidence of new growth since I repotted.

[digitalgate]

you got to remove the potting material. You add potting material after the plant's roots tried to reach for the pot.

[fred]

Danelady
you can be proud of yourself you have done a fantastic job
yep I agree the plant is very happy the new growths look great

give yourself a big pat on your back

[davetheorchidaddict]

Looks great and should grow quite well for you and be very beautiful when it blooms.

[solay]

Wow! Those are really nice new roots you are getting. Good job! Can't wait to see the blooms!

[tansyflower]

In relation to the pot conversation, Bunnings (for all you Aussies) has pots like this (and I think they are only 3 or 4 dollars).

Nice Catt too, looks very healthy!

[LouisW]

Awesome job. looks really good and obviously the plant is happy. If it keeps up at that rate you will need to pot it up again in two years!

Who wants to have a flower count guessing contest? I guess 15-20 for the next large flowering. Many more once its current growths mature and it establishes itself in the pot.

I cant wait till a few of my plants get that big you luck dog.

Oh and thanks for the great tutorial. I love seeing picks of the process.