Need help wiith My Vanda!

[Dan Miller]

Greetings!

I'm new to the board and I look forward to meeting you and expanding my knowledge of Orchids with your help.

I live a hour north of Milwaukee, WI. I've had good luck with my collection of orchids with the exception of one Vanda (25 plants - 9 species). I have two Vandas that I brought back from the Keys. Both had medium in the baskets. The one that I am having issues with grew three new roots about four inches above the basket. After pulling the medium from the baskets I found that many of the roots had died (too wet?). Shortly afterwords, the leaves dropped below the new roots and the plant has a "long neck" with a couple live roots in the basket.

My biggest challenge is manageing humidity here. I have jardonier with a small clay pot inverted in the bottom. I keep the jardonier filled with water just below the top of the clay pot and the vanda basket sits on top. I water in the morning and afternoon with room temp water from my RO unit but my leaves are still showing stress from lack of water. My fertilize every other week and I alternate those feedings with bloom booster.

Any ideas? Should I consider cutting the bottom of the plant off below the new roots (two of the tree roots are 18" long with many smaller roots branching off - all have green tips)? My other vandas basket is filled with long strips of thin wood shavings. That plant is doing well (is about to bloom with a new spike) but it has started a new root about 1" up into the leaves. Humidity in my house is 49% now and in the 30s in the winter.

All advice welcome. Thank you in advance!

[jerrymeola]

Vandas crave water. The grower in the Keys retained water on the plant when it was young by putting medium in the basket.

I know a number of growers that do this and I know others that want their roots to be completely free. I personally have been hanging my vandaceous species on a wire hanger without the basket. I like the display better like this. It is all personal.

I regard orchids solely by how the new growth is doing. And yours sounds fine. The plant has adapted to your environment and growing conditions. The dead roots and stem at the bottom are not necessary for the plant and all plants discard old growth when it is no longer necessary.

[xineann]

jerrymeola said: . I personally have been hanging my vandaceous species on a wire hanger without the basket. I like the display better like this. It is all personal.

--
Wow, that is such a great idea. I am so sick of hitting my head on the vanda baskets... I am going to try this.

Anyway, I am new and so hello.

[flaorchidfan]

i have hung a few of my vandacious species in baskets with the large vanda medium just to see the differance. in central florida it is just so bloomin hot right now that i wanted a little extra humidity for them. they seem to love it. trust me, your plants will let you know if they are not happy...

[jerrymeola]

I had not realised that it was not well known that they make Vanda hangers for hanging without a basket. I will try to post a photo soon.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Vandas do grow in pots. I have no time or the location to have the drenching water fall without soaking tons of stuff that would rot away with all that water every where. In my over crowed greenhouse, even the size of a basket takes up too much solar cross-section. Here is the picture of one of my Vanda's roots while repoting, if anyone has not seen it yet. I find the Vandas drain their pots dry quite quickly, so it is hard to over water them.
http://www.pbase.com/schnitz/potted_vandas

I just bloomed a Vanda sanderiana X scandens that I have had for 10-15 years, from seedling to ~2.5' tall. It is unfortunate that I don't know where I got it, as it has never been registered. It has medium flowers with soft pretty uniform gray-brown spotting. Not exactly a knock out, so I guess it was not considered worth registering. Will have it up on my site in another week or two. Cynthia

[Luci]

Cynthia

How do you keep from having a long neck with no leaves on your Vandas?

I was told to cut the top out and let it grow??? But if the top has no airel roots you can't do that or can you?

Thank you for any information on this subject

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I would not cut off the top until after you have some roots, and even then, expect a set back. At least that is my experience. If you want to experiment, get some tomato set spray, and spray the lower part of the plant. I understand tomato set has auxins in it, and these should help to start roots. Need to buy some my self for my increasing use of hormones to get plants past the bareroot import stage. I like liquid hormones that I can reapply often. Cynthia

[Petalsofsugar]

I just bought my first vanda or ascocenda, not sure which. I live in Iowa which gets rather low on humidity inside in the winter. Wouldn't it be better to pot my plant so it would hold the water a little longer. Also I have a pot with holes in it (a orchid pot) would this give the roots a way to be a little more free?

Julie in Iowa

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Julie, see my note above about potting.

Luci, I have been shopping for tomato set and have been astounded to find one with auxin, indole-3-acetic acid, and two that have cytokinin, Kinnetin. This is crazy. These have opposing effects. No wonder the stuff I bought a couple of years ago didn't work. It was probably the cytokinin. The indole-3-acetic acid is the correct stuff for rooting. Read the label for sure. Cynthia

[Luci]

Thanks Cynthia,

I will read the label. Is there any thing else that could be used? Also, are coconut husks a good medium for vandaceous orchid? I know you have to soak them and rinse a couple of times because of the salt content.

One more question if you don't mind, my neighbor just gave me a Phalaenopsis that she didn't want!! But I am a little confused about the tag--never had one written like this:

P.(P.Brother Sophia 'Pine Ridge #1) 'Sea Jewel'
Patent # 13088


The actual name is Sea Jewel...but there is no registration for this. Only thing I can find is P. Brother Sophia. The way it is written...would this be like a mericlone they decided to name Sea Jewel and get a Patent on it?

Would love some help sorting this one out!

Thanks

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Luci, I think there is something wrong with the label. Maybe it should have the word 'self' in it or a 'X something', but the only other thing I could think of that would require/allow a renameing of a particular clone was if, in the cloning process for 'Pine Ridge #1', there had occured a genetic mutation in one of the clones so that it was sufficiently different and desireable that the mutation was then cloned and would need some kind of name change, but the usual practice is to keep the original name and add 'subvariety xxx'. But some times they just us the 'xxx'. I think Pine Ridge is a Phal orchid nursery and you might google for them and send an email asking for a clearification. I would expect them to know what kind of sports occured in their plants or why this tag was written as it was.

Dan, if you are still around, and Luci. There seems to be the opinion among many, as I having been noting lately, that the lower leaf loss is a reaction to a change in envirnment where the plant is sheding leaves until the amount of moisture intake is balanced with the need of the existing number of leaves. I think the recommendation I have seen (was that you Jerry?) of soaking the plant's roots for one to many hours regularly might help to stop the leaf loss. Would love some feed back on the success of that proceedure. I also don't think very much of humidity trays and the like for any but the smallest plants that are very short relative the the extent of the tray, and certainly not for tall Vandas. Vandas are a difficult plant for the in home grower, but maybe the soaking and frequent early day misting can make up for the lack of humidity.

Cynthia

[Luci]

Thanks Cynthia
I will search for nursery and see if they know. It is probably an error on the tag.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Luci, if you do try to use coconut chips, a couple of rinses is not enough. I think a couple of rinses and then a long soak, may be a few days, in water with/minerals, not pure water. Some people add what ever they have around in the way of minerals, like I have used some epsom salts and dolomitic lime stone, don't know if these are the best to use, but scuttlebutt has it that pure water (RO, rain, etc.) doesn't work very well. Then give it another couple of rinses. Cynthia

[Petalsofsugar]

Cynthia, I realize that potting would be better in my situation but would putting it in a pot with holes in the side (orchid pot) be all right because it would let some of the roots creep ouside of the pot.

Julie in Iowa

[Luci]

Cynthia,
I did email Pine Ridge and the company that did the first cloning added this name on their own, to the ones they sell. Won't add correct name and persist in putting the wrong name on the tag and also advertise it with the wrong name???? I don't see how they can get away with that?

I live in the country and have my own well...not treated...but might add Epson Salts and will soak for a few days. I didn't know you needed to soak them. I am happy I asked before I tried using it.

Thanks again

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Julie, if you use a pot with holes in the sides, you will be growing it as tho it was in a basket, with very fast drying and roots going every where. This probably can work, but will require much more watering and misting and if you go away on vacation or otherwise can't water it often enough, it will not be good for the plant. So, as a house plant, I would recommend a solid sided plastic pot.

Luci, my experience with coconut is with coconut coir, the fine material that is like peat moss. But I would think that the chips would be even harder to rinse, so over kill is my motto here. It may be OK with less rinseing, but who wants to find out the hard way, after you have half killed your plant or worse. A TDS (total desolved solids) meter is a handy thing to have if you are using coconut chips/coir. Then you can check the runoff water to see if the salt has stopped coming out.

Cynthia

[Petalsofsugar]

Thanks Cynthia, I will get a regular plastic pot for it.

Julie in Iowa

[Luci]

Cynthia: I have a brick of the coir also, but haven't used it. After I bought it I heard that it contained quite a lot of salt...so I thought the coconut chips might be easier to rinse. I will soak it and rinse it several times.

Do you know where I can find a picture of Phal. Ever-spring Light 'Montclaire'. I can't seem to find one anywhere for my records...I can find Ever-spring Light 'Lin' and others but not one with 'Montclaire'
I have searched in google.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

No, but keep checking every so often. Sometimes it will show up at a society meeting, get photographed and put in their newsletter, which gets updated once a month. So you would have to catch it that month. Also, a lot of times ebat will have it, but the info is only on the net for the week or 2 that it is being bid on.

For the coir, I find that rinseing it on a section of window screen material laid down on a nursery flat works well. If you have a brick the size of about a half cubic foot, it will fill most of a 20 gal trash can when rehydrated, so I rehydrate, then let it soak in the trash can until I can get around to rinseing it. I also put in some physan to keep the fungi from growing on the top. You may want to break off a piece and rehydrate that insread of the whole brick, even if it is a smaller brick. You will be truely amazed at how much the size will grow when soaked. I usually lift the screen out of the flat and roll it up and squeeze the water out of the coir several times ib the process and particulaly at the end. You can put a knee on the roll to help squeeze the water out, but be careful you don't rip the screen.

In another thread I mentioned to Mike (Mayers) that pure coir was too dense and that I had finally settled on 2 parts coir to 3 parts small perlite. But I have found that I am just as happy with Canadian peat in place of coir, and it is a lot less work.

Cynthia

[Luci]

I was going to use the coir for seedlings just out of flask but decided not to use it. It does sound like a lot of work, definately think I won't use it.

Where do you buy canadian peat moss, I haven't seen it. I just grow all my younger plants in NZ Spag and have begun using a mixture of Bark and spag for the larger ones. I bought the coconut chips for the larger ones and for some Vandas to replace the fir bark. I love the NZ Spag but for larger plants it gets a little costly !

Thanks for the idea on the pic...I will watch for one.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Just ask for peat moss at a nursery. 'Peat' is the key word. I throw in the Canadian just to keep it from being confused with a real moss. It is usually from Canada and looks very much like coconut coir, brown and very fine. Either mixed half and half with small perlite works pretty well for small pots, but can get a little acidic. If your tap/well water is a bit basic, it may not matter. Mine is pretty neutral, so I add about a 1/2 teaspoon of E. B. Stone's dolomitic lime stone to a 4" azalea pots worth of mix. For larger pots, where the mix doesn't dry so easily, I like 3 parts small perlite to 2 parts peat/coir. Since you have the coir and perlite comes in small bags, you might want to mix a little of this up just to see what it is like. Unfortunately, sometimes it is hard to find small bags of the peat moss. Cynthia

[Luci]

Thanks Cynthia,

I might mix a little and use it on 2 or 3 of some small phals ready to come out of compot. Just to see how it does in comparison. Will let you know later on how I like it and if there is any significant growth rate to note or healthier root system..etc.

I am ready to use the coconut chips. I let them soak over night and rinse next day and refilled water level and let them soak another night. I have done this for 3 days...that should be enough. I am going to try it on 1 vanda, a beallara and 2 of the large phals. Will watch it closely and if any negative change to the orchid; I will immediately take it out of chips.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Let us know how you like it. This is such a small and easy going forum that this kind of intereaction will be good. Cynthia

[Luci]

Hi
Sure Cynthia, I will post the results.

[daytriper]

growing a vanda as a houseplant in a solid plastic pot?????? I have read much about Vandas--know many who grow them--have beautiful vandas myself. I guess it is possible to do this--you can also raise a great dame in a small New York apartment but a Yorkie would be much happier. Checking out our orchids before we purchase to be sure we can offer the correct growing enviroment might be recommended. A vanda is a beautiful lady of high maintenance--if you cannot afford her--pass her by

[Dan Miller]

Sorry for dropping off the board. I injured my neck which is causing severe headaches. Looking at a computer is tough to do.

I'd like to report that my vanda is doing well. As you recall, in an effort to manage my low humidity problem (I live in WI) I did not allow my vanda's roots to dry out between waterings properly. In a effort to survive, my vanda grew new roots 4" up the stem. Once the roots were large enough to support the plant I cut off the bottom. Since then I have been giving the plant a short soak in room temp RO water every morning. From there I set him on a humidity tray in a south window. The leaves have pumped up and there is new gowth from the top. I don't have the variety handy but it has very large purple flowers.

In the mean time one of my other vandas is blooming which has large yellow flowers that are checked.

Thanks to all for the info!

Dan

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

What did you decide to do for potting? Bare roots, mix in pot or basket? Cynthia

[Dan Miller]

At the moment the Vanda is bare root sitting on a humidity tray. I soak the plant in room temp RO water for 30 min every morning followed by a misting before I put it back on the tray in a south window. The root system is now very healthy.

I have a Vanda that is blooming now that is in a plastic basket that has a medium that I have not seen before. It is long thin strips if wood (12 inches long, 1/8 inch wide and 1/16 inch thick). I looks like chair cain but is is thiner and softer...no gloss. This material works very well but I can't seem to find it anywhere. If anyone knows what this is and where to purchase it I'd love to hear about it!

I also have a small Vanda that is potted using lava rock. The plant is doing well but I have to be very carefull as there is not enough air movement with this type of material. The Vanda that I have nursed back to health was in tree bark. This did not allow the roots to dry out daily which caused the plant to send out new roots above the line of the bark. Soon afterwords, the original root system died. I let the new roots mature (12" of growth) before I cut the damaged roots off.

Thanks,
Dan

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I wonder if that strange stringy stuff could be aspen shreds that are used in evaporative cooler pads. Might be an interesting experiment if someone has a plant they don't mind experimenting with. Cynthia