Brassavola nodosa questions...

[missann]

I just got one of these the other day that is suppossed to be blooming size, but it is very little. The longest leaf is 6 inches long, and the others are about 3-4 inches.
My questions are:

How big are "mature" brassavolas?

How big are the flowers?

What months do they usually bloom? If you have one, has it bloomed already?

A few of the leaves have a purpulish tinge and purple spots. Is this an orchid "suntan"-showing that it is getting a lot of light, or something else?

How long do the flowers last?

I think that is all...oh, what kind of watering do they like? I read to keep them moist, but are we talking phal and paph moist, or approaching dryness moist?

[Orchidementia]

This maybe useful:

Brassavola nodosa Culture

found it by using Google.

[brookn]

Size? Here's an excellent example of a specimen size B. nodosa:

Orchid Brassavola Nodosa 'Swan Song' 600+ Growth HUGE - eBay (item 160248844964 end time Sep-05-08 20:19:28 PDT)

[kmarch]

missann, Have you done any research or reading on this plant before posting these questions? This is a very common orchid and even the most basic search of the web or any good orchid book will answer all of your questions.

While the members of the forum are great, kind, helpful people, if you're going to be a serious hobbiest, you're going to have to learn to "feed yourself" in some way at some point along the way and I can't think of a better place to start then here.

Brassavola nodosa is very commonly grown species. It appears in almost every good orchid book and is all over the web. Why not take this opportunity to do a bit of research on your own and then post the answers you've found to your own questions?

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Happy hunting!

[missann]

I still need help.

K-march-I almost always do research on my own before I ask questions here. I don't have any culture info in any of my orchid books about brassavola. (I currently have 5 orchid books in my house and none of them have culture on this plant. One of them mentions it once, and just says that it is popular and fragrant.


As far as the size of the plants and flowers, I can't seem to find that info anywhere.
And, for the watering-I wanted to know what people here personally do. I read a lot of things that say different things, and when I looked it up, I only found one source of info about watering it.

Orchidementia- Thank you for the link, but it is the info given there that I need some clarification on. It says to keep it moist, so I am going to take that as keeping it as moist as you would a phal.

Also, I don't know if, when it says to keep it dry for at least 2 weeks in the winter, if it means no water at all or just let it dry out between waterings. To me, living in the desert, dry means bone dry, not water when the media becomes dry. I could use a bit of help interpreting the info there.

Here are some pics of my plant with a penny for size reference.
Brookyn-thanks for the pic with the soda can for a size reference. I still think my plant is kind of small.

[Orchidementia]

The link I provided gives the size of the plant, leaves and flowers.

[jerrymeola]

Missann

Your plant is small. It is a plug tray plant about one year out of a flask. You have 2-3 years to wait for flowering.

Full size leaves are 6-8 inches tall while I call yours only 4-5. But it is the bulk of the bulbs and quantity that give its age. As I said, yours is a seedling.

The tech sheet posted by Orchidementia does not say much more than general Cattleya care. I do not agree with the need for a winter rest. Most plants in cultivation are so far removed from wild conditions that their needs have adapted.

One interesting point on the tech sheet is how it hybridizes into, which to me are more desirable plants. B nodosa is white lipped but genetically it has spots on the lip that are white on white. When it is hybridized the spots become prevalent on offspring.

B Little Stars (B nodosa v B cordota) (Lady of the Night) looks just like nodosa. It is fragrant in the evening after dark and grows faster.

As for the Ebay plant - anyone with that much money to waste should call me. I could use an all expense paid trip to South America.

[Orchidementia]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

Missann
The tech sheet posted by Orchidementia does not say much more than general Cattleya care.

You two must have missed this part!

Plant and Flower Information:

PLANT SIZE AND TYPE: A clump forming epiphyte or lithophyte that may reach
a height of 15-18 in. (38-46 cm), but is often shorter. The connecting
rhizome between growths is usually short, and established plants tend to
start several new growths. Consequently, specimen plants are easily grown.

PSEUDOBULBS: Instead of pseudobulbs, plants have short slender stems up to
6 in. (15 cm) long that are concealed by scarious tubular sheaths.

LEAVES: A single leaf is produced on each growth. Leaves are extremely
variable in size and shape, ranging from 4 to 12 in. (10-30 cm) long and
from 0.1 to 0.7 in. (0.3-1.8 cm) wide. The grey-green leaves are usually
erect, very fleshy, grooved on the upper surface, and often appear
subterete or semicylindrical.

INFLORESCENCE: 1 per growth. The erect inflorescence is about 8 in. (20
cm) long and arise from the leaf axil as the new growth matures.

FLOWERS: 1-6 on each inflorescence. The long-lived flowers, which are very
fragrant at night, are usually about 3.5 in. (9 cm) across, but may reach
nearly 6 in. (15 cm). Sepals and petals are long and slender, do not
spread widely, and vary in color from pale green or yellowish to nearly
pure white. The large lip is tubular at the base, then opens widely,
producing a heart-shaped terminal area that may be as large as 2 in. (5
cm) across. The lip is white and often marked with purple or dark red
spotting inside the tube.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by missann

K-march-I almost always do research on my own before I ask questions here. I don't have any culture info in any of my orchid books about brassavola. (I currently have 5 orchid books in my house and none of them have culture on this plant. One of them mentions it once, and just says that it is popular and fragrant.

I'm amazed to hear this. I have 7 books on general orchid info/culture and all 7 of them discuss Brassavola nodosa. As I said it is a very common orchid. The web is literally dripping with descriptions, culture info, and pictures (though I can't account for how accurate the all are). I'd dare say anyone who cant find info on B nodosa probably isn't looking very hard.

Originally Posted by missann

...keep it dry for at least 2 weeks in the winter, if it means no water at all or just let it dry out between waterings. To me, living in the desert, dry means bone dry, not water when the media becomes dry. I could use a bit of help interpreting the info there.

You're really making this so much more difficult than it is. B nodosa is one of the easiest-to-care-for orchids I've ever touched and easy to flower too. Forget the "required" 2-week dry period. I watered mine evenly all year round and it grew and flowered like mad. The climate data suggests that in the winter after growths have matured the plant gets less water in nature than it does in summer when it is wetter and the plant is in full growth mode. As for what is dry? Well dry is dry. Not wet is dry. It's not like baking where you need exactly 1/4tsp of baking powder of things go awry. So it's not like you need to "measure out" exactly 2 weeks of some scientifically measurable, consistent definition of "dry".

Just grow the orchid with basic general cattleya culture and it's go to town for you. There, now I've told you what you could have found in any one of dozens and dozens of general orchid reference books or almost anywhere on the web.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by jerrymeola

B nodosa is white lipped but genetically it has spots on the lip that are white on white.

Sorry Jerry, this is not correct. B nodosa spots aren't white on white. Their spots are noticable near the base of the lip and coming up the center and are reddish though often light coloured. In some plants the spotting is fairly heavy while in others it is nonexistant or very light. Most are somewhere in between. They do pass the lip spotting on to their offspring and often the spots pick up colour form the other parent, certainly a desirable trait. But nodosa spots aren't white on a white lip.

[JLu]

Well, if ya'll read the AOS award descriptions you will see that the lip varies from "snow white", to white with purple or reddish spots, to white with purple or greenish veination. So it looks like the lip is pretty variable. The petal/sepal color is usually green. Descriptions are green, light green, or chartreuse. I think all of those are intended to convey the same thing. I have no idea what white on white means.

Jerry I see you recommend ignoring the winter rest (which usually means a reduction of some degree in watering). Maybe that's why you are continually complaining about rot and fungus on your plants. I don't have all those problems. Maybe it's because I know what causes rot and fungus. Fungus spores germinate most readily in 50-80 degree temperature and long leaf wetness (usually on the order of 8 hours). By keeping leaf surfaces dry and root environments drier than usual during winter months when conditions favor fungal development, one can avoid a lot of problems.

[brookn]

Okay first of all, Jerry, I found the plant on ebay and thought it was really beautiful. I would not pay that price for it, but it's a nice example of a specimen size, and with the can in the pic you can really get an idea of the size of the leaves etc.

Missann, I understand that it is daunting at first growing orchids. The point that Kevin was making, and in kind Rachel and I were making is this... 5 minutes of a search revealed a wealth of information on this plant, which is very common in cultivation. Kevin's right, in orchid culture dry means dry etc. I know that this plant is very easy to grow even though I don't own one. Many times you post things with the tone of an expert, then right after, post begging for help. I believe that you genuinely want to learn, I just feel that your mind gets ahead of you, and you don't realize that it is coming across a certain way.

JLU, I love ya, I think that you have a wealth of information to give, and that you are really talented with a camera. I do feel however, that in this instance, pointing out that you do give a dry rest, and how you accomplish that would have been enough. It is painfully obvious that you have a 'beef' with Jerry, and perhaps your point would have been better served with a PM about the fungus and info on how to fix the problem. Making this public all the time tries the patience of many of us geeks, and it makes you seem argumentative. I know that you are a great person, and that all of us can learn a lot from you, but this bickering clouds the opinion.

Fred if I have crossed a line, please let me know. Thanks everyone, and back to topic.

[missann]

Brookyn-I don't mean to sound like I am any kind of expert. Maybe I just post things too matter of factly. Sorry about that.

As for seaching on the web...after this post, I searched just the plant name, instead of "brassavola nodosa culture" and came up with a lot of info.
Sorry to bother you guys.

Anyway, the books that I read that don't have b. nodosa culture are "ortho's all about orchids," "orchids" by joyce stewart, "sunset orchids," and "orchids in color."

I like to have peple tell me what they do with their plants, because often times info on the internet is wrong. I even found an error on an AOS page the other day that said to do exactly the opposite of what is correct culture for that plant-can't remember what it was though, so sorry if i need a little help sometimes. And sorry for sounding rude when I am just trying to help.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by missann

Anyway, the books that I read that don't have b. nodosa culture are "ortho's all about orchids," ...

Page 58-59 of Ortho's All About Orchids:

Brassavola
Light: Medium to High
Temperature: Warm to Intermediate
Flowering: Summer to Fall
Care: Beginner

Brassavola nodosa: Called the "Lady of the Night" in Latin America for its exqusite evening perfume, B nodosa's 3-inch flowers may be white with tiny purple diots on the lip, greenish-white, or cream. The foliage is upright and varies in height from a compact 4 inches to 12 inches. Unlike B digbyana, B nodosa does not need a dry rest period - it usually grows and flowers year round.

Originally Posted by missann

so sorry if i need a little help sometimes.

Everyone needs help from time to time, even those of us who have studied and/or grown orchids for a long time. What I find troublesome is that it appears you had all of the answers to all of your questions right in the pages of a book you own and yet you aparently didn't look closely enough to notice that there is a whole 2-page spread in one of your books about Brassavola.

We're all happy to help but you have to learn to help yourself too. One step in that direction wold be actually looking in the resources you already have.

Originally Posted by missann

I even found an error on an AOS page the other day that said to do exactly the opposite of what is correct culture for that plant-can't remember what it was though,

I'll believe that when I see it...

[Orchidementia]

The OP might agree with you:

The stuff "they" don't tell you...is in a book?
What is the stuff they don't tell you? Who is they?
These are serious questions..is there stuff that orchid people won't tell you when you ask them directly?

I have seen a few threads with this title, and I think the info you are lookking for is in BOOKS. I see A LOT of questions here that my meager, 7 genus orchid book can answer. When I bought my first orchid, I bought a book right along with it because I have always heard that orchids are finicky. THEY ARE if you don't learn anything about them.
Also--to those who have made the same titled threads: What is the stuff they don't tell you?
Books have all the info in one place, unlike the internet. IMHO.
{...}
I would strongly encourage anyone who is new (or old) to this hobby to pick up a book. Read it all the way through. I am a big "know it all" and I retain tons of information, but I always re-read my book every summer and find out stuff I didn't know, is now relevant to me, or whatever.

The stuff "they" don't tell you...is in a book?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by janice

I thouht this forum was a place to ask questions..............I guess I will just defer to books from here on out.

Yes Janice this forum is certainly a place to ask questions. Ask questions yes, but also use all of the other resources you have available to you.

Our point in this instance is of a rather different nature: why post a question when you already have all of the the answers right in your own lap? missann had the answers she was looking for in one of her own books but apparently didn't bother to look, claiming it wasn't there. That's quite a bit different from saying "don't ask questions," which wasn't at all what I was saying.

[katrina]

Brassavolas are one of my favorite! I'm still learning but I have taken my first one through an entire bloom cycle. I got it a little over a year ago and it's currently beginning to bloom. So...my first re-bloom. Expert? No way....far from it but I can tell you what I do.

About the purple speckles...it's pretty common when they are getting a good deal of light. Like you said...a bit of a suntan. Yours is pretty small so I wouldn't let it get too suntanned. Let it get adjusted to the higher light levels over a period of time or you will soon have a purple plant (happened to me w/a seedling). Once it's accustomed to the higher light...then some purple speckles are good...it's an indication it's getting enough light. Just like some of the catts.

Personally...no winter rest here. I do reduce the water because right now he's getting LOTS of water. Soaked real well and fert'd weekly + sprays in between depending on heat and humidity. He doesn't stay sopping but right now I definitely don't let him get bone-dry (right/wrong?). In the winter...watered so that it runs through the bottom...once a week...that's it.

It really has proven to be an easy plant...probably why I like them so much. LOL! Plus...I love the terete (sp?) leaves.