PLEASE HELP-rotten roots

[missann]

My first orchid I ever got is going to die without your help.

My den. NOID whose flowers last 6 months (that is each flower), has about 3 good roots to it's name.

My questions are:

1. I know one is suppossed to lessen the water given after repotting to stimulate new root growth, but this plant is very shrivelled, and I don't think it will make it if I am not watering it as much.
Is it safe to use either Schults "take root" or "rootone" rooting hormone on the bottom to encourage new root growth.
2. I have some coir fiber (the fluffy kind), vermiculite, large redwood bark w. pearlite, med fir bark, and a bit of sphag. moss. I have some live spag. moss on the way, but who knows when it will get here...
What should I use to pot it? I hear that terresterials love coir, and that someone potted an onc. or something in it too, but has anyone used coir for dendrobiums?
3. My plant has one main cane with 3 leaves that seem ok for now, one secondary cane with one leaf that is yellowing, and two back bulbs. The main cane has a small keikei on it.
Should I cut off the old back bulbs (unless they have roots, of course) because they "steal" energy from the rest of the plant, or will the cuts cause the plant to loose more moisture?

I am going to drench it in consan 20 at reccommended strength to kill any bad rot bacteria on the good roots, and keep it in an appropriately small pot with a bag over it to keep it really humid.

I don't want to keep it in the greenhouse because it gets really hot despite the fact that I have up to 80 percent humidity in there at times.

Please let me know if you have had success with the technique/treatment you are reccommending. I would prefer that you only reccommend something you yourself have tried it with success, or know for a FACT is the right thing to do. I know there is a lot of misinformation on the internet, and I have even read the exact opposite of what one is suppossed to actually do.

Please help me, this orchid is my favorite and my first, and I would really love for it to live.

[mayres]

I use coir as a base (with perlite & charcoal) for any orchid that has compromised roots and needs to be saved - so far so good. There are many "plans of attack" for situations like this - and you will probably get lots of ideas - that have worked for each person (but may not all work for you) in the end you will have to choose and go with whatever your instincts tell you will work FOR YOU. I have tried the sphag and bag method that others use and my application of this principle was not so good - stagnant air in an enclosed bag = more disease and continued plant decline. For me more air movement WITH humidity is the best concept - however you can accomplish this. Removing the rotten and/or diseased part of the plant is the number one goal - once this is done in most cases the plant will slowly repair itself - of course this often takes months and to some extent years until many plants are back to "full strength". I would not cut off the back bulbs at this point - I think they will help more than hurt - with small amounts of nourishment headed for your new canes - not the reverse.

[Celcat]

Hi missann,

I would definitively not cut the back bulbs. They do not 'steal' energy. A friend asked exactely the same question to an orchid grower last week-end. The answer was back bulb will provide the energy necessary for the new bulbs to develop.
I would repot the chid and remove all the rotten roots. For the medium, personnaly, I do use fine bark mixed with perlite and add at the bottom some polysterene. And at the top, or at the base of the plant I do put some sphag. moss. This works usually for me, but then I live in UK, in a flat which has a humidity level between 60 and 70 and it is south west orientated ( no north or east window)
I would not use any fertiliser yet at that stage, I would wait until I see new growth.
I have tried the bag once, it did not work out for me. I had the same problem as Mayre.
And I have seen somewhere, if you put the plant in darker room, that will induce growth, and if you put the plant in the lighter room, it will induce flowers. Some may disagree, but then as Mayre said, some tips work for some when they do not work for other. You have to find the best way for your plant.

Good luck

[11Orchid126]

Ditto what mayres and celcat both said. I never had luck with the sphag and bag method either. Your idea of a small pot with a plastic bag over it might work better. Like celcat, I use fine fir bark mixed with perlite and add packing peanuts in the bottom of the pot for air circulation. If you only have medium fir bark, you might add about one third chopped sphagnum moss to it. Make sure you soak the bark for a couple of hours before using it. You might also want to soak for a few hours the whole plant in some sugar water. Molasses would be ideal, as molasses promotes roots as does either Superthrive or Dyna-gro KLN. I've never worked with Schultz's take root, and rootone I've only used outdoors or for houseplants, never orchids. Vermiculite is not recommended for orchids as it fills the air spaces around the roots.

As far as lessening the water after repotting, I was at Parkside Orchid Nursury and the grower said he can't be bothered with isolating newly repotted plants, that they get put back right with all the others and treated the same, so since then I don't bother either. And it would make sense if the plant were suffering from dryness. You don't put a man dying of thirst in the Sahara.

This is the time of year that dendrobiums are growing their best. Give your plant as much light as you can. However, watch that it doesn't cook under the plastic. Be sure to leave it open at the bottom and check it frequently. As soon as you think the plant is perking up take it off and give that baby all the light it can handle.

[jerrymeola]

I need to take this in a whole different direction. I almost never see root rot on a Dendrobium.

While you start with this statement 'rotten roots', I can not see the roots. The symptoms you describe can be long term watering at too low a level or growing it too cold over the winter. Neither is generally a serious danger of killing the plant.

It is hard to kill a Dendrobium. It is the weed of the orchid world. Most deaths I see are a long term lack of water.

Another problem is the lack of re-potting (3-4 years) during which time the roots grew so much that water can no longer penetrate the medium. You can water for hours and the plant will get nothing. This happens with the healthiest looking plants, that also have the most actively growing roots. This does not seem to be your problem if indeed it only has three roots.

Part of the problem is the way Dendrobium are grown for sale. Your plant is less than three years old by the description of the canes. It really takes longer than this for a Den to fully establish. Yet commercial growers force grow them and have them on the market at 2 years of age. It is common for these plants to regress. They usually come back fine if given basic care.

To fully assess the problem we should determine how long you have had the plant. whether it re-flowers for you and whether you get new cane growth after every flowering. Lack of new cane growth every year is the most critical symptom. You should be getting 1-3 new canes every year and 4-10 new roots on each cane.

I have several hundred in the nursery that resemble yours for the first couple of years, and they start to look like good healthy plants after about 3 years old. At that point the improvement is rapid, with new canes and roots.

All these comments are based on the assumption that a No Name Den is a DenPhal type.

[dianecty]

Hi! First of all, water your shrivelled up dend. One thing to remember is that dends naturally shrivel when they get older. Once a week max in cold climate. Maybe more if your roots are really dry.

Secondly, Schultz Take Root does not work on orchids. I have tried it twice to no avail. Dynagro KLN works and works fast!! I got lots and lots of roots, stubs forming only after 2 weeks of using it. I mean 7 stubs/roots just on 1 small short shrivelled up dend!! I don't know what they are yet, since they are still so small. Just put 1 teaspoon/gallon for your first application and then use 1/4 teaspoon/gallon next time.

In my experience, KLN is most effective on dends. My phals react slower. A lot slower. Not a big effect yet after using it for a month. I think it makes oncidiums grow pseudobulbs and strengthens its roots but again slower reaction compared to dends. Haven't seen new roots form on oncs.

Cut off all the rotten roots. Let the plants dry out so it won't be so wet before repotting in a very open mix. Exposed roots are ok.

I hope this is helpful.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Don't use hormones unless the plant is not starting a new growth, in which case you can use it on the base of the plant, then wash is off thoroughly right away after a growth starts. Hormones won't cause new roots to start from the base of the plant, but will stimulate a new growth, maybe even 2 or 3.

Don't worry about the rootless quality of a Den. They start new growths in spring, and that new growth will put out all the roots the plant needs. You can mist the canes in the mean time to help keep up the moisture within the plant until new roots start. I always note that previous roots look really bad by the time growth starts in spring.

You want a mix that dries fast. During winter, when they are dormant, they really object to a wet mix. I used peat (very much like you coir) and vermiculite with Dens years ago, and killed a few, learning only later that the mix would have been OK if I had let it dry out REALLY hard in the dormant period.

Don't cut off the old canes until you have more than 3 to keep. Dens normally lose leaves, and leafless canes are normal and the leafless canes are still needed by the plant. Old canes are a positive for the plant. They never steal anything, but provide reserve energy.

I prefer a treatment with Cleary's 3336 or equiv., but the treatment with Consan is probably OK, tho also probably unneeded in this case. Just be sure not to exceed the recommended dose, or you could have problems from the Consan.

Make sure the bag has good openings. In other words, don't use sphag & bag, where the bag is sealed. Your bag should only be to partially raise the humidity.

[Macy]

I agree with Cynthia. You want to shoot for a new growth. Dens are hard to kill. I've done just about everything mentioned above. I have just put rootless canes in sphag, laying them on their sides or stuck in and they've grown. I've stuck rootless canes in bark with the same success. I don't use any chemicals and they sprout growths. Don't worry about the roots on the old canes, you want to spur an eye to grow.