Complex Paphs

[hera]

Can anyone explain complex paphs to me? I'm reading alot about paphs, but I just don't seem to get how they are created. I only have one paph (Friedrich von Hayek 'Ember Glow' x fairrieanum 'Glamor') so I'm not in this catagory, but some of the complexes are so beautiful that I want to try some. How are they in the home and how do you judge what is a "good" one? I've found alot of info on species, but nothing on the complex hybrids. It seems that a person could specialize in nothing but paphs and never be bored.

[jay]

When speaking about complex paphs they are talking about the make up of the plant. A species is one that can be found in the wild, naturally. If you take two species and cross them to make a new plant then you get what's called a primary hybrid. Once you get more than 2 species in a hybrid then you are talking about a complex paph. This is because of the complex make up of the new hybrid.

As for what makes a good one. . . Well, it is in the eye of the beholder. Other than normal health of the plant, like leaves, roots, bugs . . ., the complex paph flowers will attract different people. Some like the big round flat paphs while some will like the small compact highly defined paphs. It all depends on what you like.

And you are right about focusing on paphs and never getting bored. Kevin (Kmarch) has nearly a million. . . (ok there is not smilie to show my sarcasm right now). I am sure he can tell you more about some of the great options in paphs.

[hera]

Thanks for the info. I'm not sure what direction I want to go in with them. As far as species, I like gratrixianum, lowii, appletonianum, insigne, tonsum. I haven't seen any of these local. I like the waxy look in the green and pink, peach shades. Most of the descriptions of the growing conditions talk about the type of leaves being an indicator for what temp range they like. Problem being, they hardly ever show the leaves in pictures. I'm a little overwhelmed at this point. I just know what I like to look at.

[jay]

In Ohio, you should be able to offer conditions for just about any Paph. I would stay away from the super large multi-florals for a first paph. (sanderianum, rothschildianum, or most hybrids with these since they are slow growers).

There are tons of great paphs out there to try as a starter. Any Maudiae type hybrid would be great. You can find these generally for under $20 in bloom or blooming size. There is a great variety of flowers from green and white to dark red. They will have a molted leaf, one of the distinguishing characteristic of Maudiae type paphs. (Although some non Maudiae type paphs will also have molted leaves)

If you like the waxy green flowers then maybe you should look for a Paph. primulinum. The standard form of this paph has very nice green flowers that are sequential, one bloom after another. They pretty quick growers and I am finding fairly easy to care for. I have one that I got as a near blooming size this spring and is in bud right now with a second growth starting. I will post pictures soon when it opens.

[Ron]

Hi Hera.
Welcome to the forum and the wonderfull world of growing Paphiopedilums.

the complex Paph question as pretty well been answered.
As said it is breeding process of many species combined into their breeding. then rebred untill the "So Called Complex or exhibition Pah was developed for show purpose".
I believe there are several big nursurys in USA that specialise in them
I have attached 2 photos of mine.
One is what a back should look like for showing purposes and also allows you to see what a resonable good complex should look like.
the other one is one of my better ones as a first year seedling.
colour range is endless.
Antec lab is one of the better places to look for growing info. nhttp://www.ladyslipper.com/

They are my main growing line and in Aussie land are now coming into flower season
Cheerio
Ron

[patticake]

Hi hera! Paphs are awesome. There are many growers that carry them. A few that I know of are Oak Hill for species, But Piping Rock Orchids specializes in Paphs and Phrags. Click on this link---->Welcome to Piping Rock Orchids Glen Decker at Piping Rock is a great one to talk to! Check out his site! I know that others will chime in with their favorite Paph growers, so "Let the Names Begin!!"

[hera]

Thanks guyes for all your comments and suggestions. There is no end to the wealth of info shared on this forum. You Rock!

[myorchid]

Hi,
I have lots of Paphs, and love them. They grow wonderfully and there are so many to pick from.

The Paph primulinum is one that I have and it is growing like crazy! It just bloomed its second flower, and I had two for a week or so then the older flower dropped off. I also have another bud starting. It is fun to see how many flowers it will bloom.

The other one that is a great fast grower is Paph sukhakulii x Oriental Spice, very pretty cross and grows well, I have 4 new growths.

Paph Magic Lantern is another nice one, pretty pink flower with dark mottled leaves. Paph Armeni White also has dark mottled leaves, with a white flower.

My green leaved Paphs I put right next to the east facing window, and my mottled leave Paphs I put a little further away from the window but they still get plenty of light, skylight above and right between the east and west facing window.

Good luck in choosing! Post pictures of what you get!

[Ron]

Hi Hera.
I bet you get very spoilt with some lovely sites to look at.
For some lovely complex photos one could not miss Jim McCubbin in Queensland, Australia for some photos.
Check Jim's Paphs

Cheerio
Ron

[kmarch]

Hello hera, Kevin here, the guy with a million paphs. :P

Jay has given you some good info on paphs ( to you Jay). But I'd like to clarify something regarding the term "complex." The term is used for 2 different things: on the one hand the term refers to any hybrid (paph or other) whose parents are 2 hybrids or a hybrid and a species. Orchid hybrids essentially fall into 2 categories, "primary hybrids" meaning a hybrid made between 2 species and "complex hybrids" meaning essentially everything else.

On the other hand, with paphs, the term is also used to refer to a specific type of paph or group of paphs characterized by large round flowers usually with a shiny, waxy, or plastic-like texture and very firm substance. Here's a picture of a group of this type of paphs: http://www.orquideas.com/new/Oc2000/...ouse_Paphs.jpg These types of paphs are also refered to as "exhibition" paphs, "bulldog" paphs, or "frog" or "toad" paphs.

Because of the potential for confusion (especially among new growers) that can arise form the same term (complex) referring to two different things, I prefer to call this group of paphs "exhibition" paphs and I encourage folks to avoid using the term "complex paphs" because it is easily confused with "complex hybrid." Case in point: your paph (which is lovely by the way - I am quite fond of fairrieanum and its hybrids) is a "complex hybrid" meaning it contains more than 2 species and/or hybrids but it is not a "complex paph"; it's not an "exhibition paph".

I hope that's helpful.

[patticake]

Hera, This is why Kevin rocks.

Kevin, I learned something tonight that I haven't understood in all the books that I've read!

[kmarch]

You're more than welcome patticake. That's my goal, that folks who come here will know more when they leave then when they came.

[hera]

Thanks K, I'm begining to see the light!

[JLu]

To add to the information already presented, these huge flowered Paph cultivars are called standard-complex hybrids. They originate from the late 1800's and Paph Leeanum (insigne x spicerianum) and Paph Lathamianum (spicerianum x villosum). In the process of interbreeding these plants repeatedly with their parents Paph Christopher 'Grand Duke Nicholas' (1902) resulted. GDN was a huge flower and started the standard-complex craze.

According to Koopowitz, GDN was the parent of 129 registered grexes and figures in the ancestory of 9000+ hybrids.

Until the 1980's these standard-complex hybrids were wildly popular. People tired of them and returned to interests in species (many newly discovered) and primary hybrids. Many, like me, came along after the standard-complex craze was over and find these sort of grotesque, but their popularity recently has increased.

All in all, a standard-complex Paph is a huge flower, heavily bred for show. Usually there is not a species plant in the first 6 generations or more of the pedigree. They may return to popularity, but not likely for me. I find them too weird.

[jerrymeola]

I have to add a little more to kmarch's definition of complex Paph. In the commercial world the term is used exclusively for the large flowered types. Bulldog is often used as well but after that I almost never hear any other reference.

If you order a complex Paph it is the large bulldog that yo will get.

[solay]

Wow, I learned a lot too. Having just recently acquired some Paphs., all this is new to me. Thanks everyone for all this information.