Catasetum

[sandra]

Anyone here growing these? Haven't been able to find too much cultural info on them except they can be grown in either bright or low light. I've been told that the female flowers are produced in bright light which produce more inflorescences and prettier flowers.

I found these at a local nursery who normally don't grow these. They bought them from another nursery who closed shop and moved to Hawaii. They recently repotted a few into sphag. and told me they need constant moisture. The owner took me over to a few that were repotted and when he began inspecting them, we noticed the bulbs were rotting and falling off. I bought a couple that weren't yet, repotted. I have them in 50/50 coir, bark.

Ctsm. imperiale
Ctsm. (Thinger Dinger x expansum)


The other one is Cls. warseewieczil x Ctsm. expansum

[kmarch]

Catasetum, Cycnoces, Clowesia, and Mormodes all have similar culture. The person at the nursery only told you half the story. They do need constant moisture, but only when in active growth and until they lose all their leaves. As the growth nears maturity water is gradually cut back, the plant will then loose all of its leaves. By this point watering should be stopped and none given for several months until new growth starts.

There have been a few threads/posts recently discussing this family of orchids, their culture, and care:

cycnoches care. please help me help my cycnoches.
Cycd Wine Delight "JEM"
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/gen...e-project.html

[jerrymeola]

kmarch is correct and here are a few more facts.

They are deciduous so that no water during dormancy but heavy water and fertilizer once new growth starts. They will look dead all winter. They usually loose all leaves before flowering but not always.

The do not grow into large bunches of pseudobulbs like other orchids and need to be divided regularly. I will have to check on the specifics but some will normally not support more than two growing bulbs and the extras die off (and look like rot).

Normally only one bulb will flower on a plant.

[sandra]

Thank you Kevin and Jerry for this information. These wouldn't have lasted throughout the year without it.

[jbigio]

Watering the new growth should not start till the new roots are between 3 to 5 inches long or there is a strong likelihood of rotting the bulb

Joe

[sandra]

Originally Posted by jbigio

Watering the new growth should not start till the new roots are between 3 to 5 inches long or there is a strong likelihood of rotting the bulb

Joe

Haven't been doing this. When I repotted both, noticed there was growth around the newest bulbs and I've been watering. I'll cut back and hopefully, no adverse effects have occurred.

What is the typical cycle for these plants?

[kmarch]

I politely disagree with jbigio on this detail of watering. When I grew these, I started watering very lightly as soon as I saw roots, gradually increasing in frequency and in volume of water as the roots grew. I do mean gradually too, it took me maybe a month to go from no watering to watering full on. I was always very careful not to get the bulb nor the new shoot wet when watering as the old bulbs do seem to rot easily.

They typical cycle for this family of orchids is that they grow very fast and the bulbs mature (during which they are watered/fertilized heavily), once mature the leaves start to drop (during which watering is gradually reduced), once the leaves fall off they go dormant (no water), then they flower (some Cycnoces will flower before the leaves fall off), then they do nothing for a while (no water) before starting a new growth (gradually start watering again).

I also wish to politely dissagree with Jerry on a different small detail. While I agree that the orchids in this family never form large clumps like a dendrobium or cattleya might, I have seen Cycnoces and Clowesia in shows with many pseudobulbs, as many as 5-10. Clowsea rosea and one of its hybrids Clowsea Rebecca Northen seem to hold their bulbs better than others and its not uncommon to see one at a show with 5 or more bulbs. They do grow really well from single bulbs though and for this reason I typically see commercial growers dividing them up into single bulb divisions for selling. Mormodes seem to hold only about 2-3 bulbs at a time. I've never seen one with more...at least that I recall.

[sandra]

Again, I appreciate this additional info. Thank you.

So, would it be wise to take it out of the coir/bark during it's dormant period? Could I leave it bare or should I put it in something like bark?

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by sandra

So, would it be wise to take it out of the coir/bark during it's dormant period? Could I leave it bare or should I put it in something like bark?

I have seen both. I've seen folks unpot the plant and lay the leafless pseudobulb out in a tray of dry sand and I have seen others leave them in their pots or on their mounts and simply not water them. I always did the latter.

I would like to hear opinions on whether people think one method works better than the other.

[mdomingz]

I've been growing my Catasetum bicolor, ( I posted some pictures of it in another thread called "what's blooming in your collection", or just look under the word catasetum) just placed in a wooden basket, no media whatsoever, i water it twice a week and just spray some water on it everyday. I do stop watering from around Dec 15 to March 30 (our tropical dry season, aka, your winter). They like to have their roots exposed, (as i've seen them in nature, near my house, which is where i rescued it from). I have mine exposed to sun most of the day.

As for your pic. I'd recommed to take it out of the pot and just leaving it there in the basket, if not sure, just line the basket with some moss or shredded coconut fiber, it'll be fine. You'll see it will start growing lots of roots sticking to the basket itself. It does like LOTS of running water. not being wet or in wet media, hope it helps.

manuel
panama

[sandra]

Manuel, thanks for responding. Can I pot these in just charcoal? Don't have coconut fiber, just coir which will stay too wet for these guys. I feel a little uncomfortable leaving them in nothing and when I bought these from the nursery, they had just potted some up in sphag and were falling apart and rotting.

[Vivienne]

This is GREAT info. I took over care of a Catasetum last fall... in pitiful condition. Stuck it in the corner for the winter and forgot about it. I left it in it's pot with large bark mix and gave it a splash of water maybe twice in 5 months. It now has a nice tall growth smack dab in the middle of 3 old pbulbs. It's a NoID so really hope I get some blooms this year to help ID it a little bit.

[mdomingz]

I guess there will be no problem. Don't feel bad about leaving it with nothing, just take it out of the plastic, if you feel better by having some media, then go ahead, charcoal will be fine. When i water this one, i always put the whole plant (basket and all) in water so the basket itself absorbs water and transfers it to the plant.

These are very interesting plants. At first i thought they were kind of weird and not that atractive, but once you start dealing with them, you just can't get enought. Short lived flowers, but very rewarding. And they bloom several times a year. Hope it helps, good luck with them.

manuel
panama

[sandra]

Thanks Manuel. Into charcoal they go, when I get home. I'll water a couple of times a week and mist inbetween. I feel better now that you and Kevin and jbigio have chimed in here. Thanks again.

...........or, do you think I should put them in bark instead?

[mdomingz]

forget the bark! Messy, perishable, and too water retentive! Keep it clean. If you soak the wooden basket too, it'll be fine. Really don't feel bad about it. They love running, and i mean running, clean, fast draining, non-collecting in the bottom water. Remember, these are strong, thick pseudobulbed plants that do accumulate energy within themselves. And you live in florida, great weather all around.

Really don't worry! They'll do great!

manuel
panama

[sandra]

I ended up potting these little guys in Hydroton (with a little charcoal). When I was buying more fertilizer, I picked up another one and that's it for now. I have no idea what these will look like flowered but I'm more intrigued by the plants themselves and their growing cycles. I'll water twice a week and keep this up till the leaves fall off, then nothing 'till I see more growth.

Manuel, I just couldn't leave them bare in the baskets. We get very windy, rainy weather here in summer and I would have been worried that I'd wake up and see empty baskets if I didn't secure them somewhat. Not only are they in pots now and in baskets but I have bungee cords securing them on the shelves...I'm talking mega windy.

[kmarch]

I'd never thought of it before but I bet they'll do well in hydroton. I bet you oculd leave them in that year round too as it will drain well in the summer when you're drenching them and it will be nice and dry when they're dormant. Please keep us posted on how they do. We all might learn something from this.

[mdomingz]

you got that right, kmarch! I'm pretty sure they'll do great in hydroton.

sandra, it sounds you live in the middle of hurricane paths... oh, wait a minute... you do! i think your culture method is great. hope to learn from that too.

too bad i can't get expanded clay pellets down here just yet.
i've been wanting to try that for ages (i even tried to make them myself, but didn't work)

keep us posted
manuel
panama

[Vivienne]

Thought I'd snap a pic of my growing Catasetum NoID.

[jay]

Catasetinae seem to like the hydroton very much. Here is are a few that I have growing in it right now. I of course use the S/H method. I still find myself having to water these all every day because of the amount of water uptake.

Fredclarkeara(Catasetum x Mormodes x Clowesia) After Dark
Catasetum tenebrosum
Mo Painted Desert 'SVO' HCC/AOS x Morm lawrenceana

[Vivienne]

I have my Cattleyas in the hydroton (non S/H) and the roots they are all growing is remarkable! I too give them water everyday. As I recall, when I first acquired my Catasetum the roots were incredible... as in the amount of them. Is it okay to repot Catasetum while they are growing/before blooming? Or should it wait until the fall?
Catasetum tenebrosum sounds familiar... I think that's what my friend thought it was.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by kmarch

I'd never thought of it before but I bet they'll do well in hydroton. I bet you oculd leave them in that year round too as it will drain well in the summer when you're drenching them and it will be nice and dry when they're dormant. Please keep us posted on how they do. We all might learn something from this.

This is exactly why I decided to use the Hydroton. I feel a little more confident now that you and Manuel have given it the thumbs-up. Thank you both!

The only thing I'm wondering is if twice a week watering is enough?

Manuel, no Hydroton to be found where you are? No big deal for me to help you out with this if you'd like some. P.M. me if you'd like and I'll get some out to you.

Vivienne, from what I've read, now would be the time to re-pot it, while the roots are taking off. The 3 I bought were all repotted....

[mdomingz]

hey, thanks for the offer sandra. Remember i live in Panama so humidity in the air is rather dense most of the time, so even if you skip days, still it's not critical for any plant for that matter. Anyway these plants take all the water you can give them, just dont let it sit.

manuel
panama

[PhalPal]

Sandra have you been following this thread of our Fdk. After Dark bulbs?
http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/gen...e-project.html
The best information you will get from it is the massive amount of water they take in every day as well as amazing growth of leaves and roots. I have my bulb in a four inch pot with coir mix (more coir than mix) and I am completely soaking the media every day. It was hard at first to water this much, but the bulb has flourished and the coir is all but dry in the morning while my other orchids in the same conditions are still damp.

Fred from the farm where we got our Fdk. bulbs told me to keep them damp: Lots of water and Lots of fertilizer and Lots of light. I would water every day or just go full-on semi-hydro like Jay is doing. I didn't know you had these bulbs! I'm so excited to watch yours grow also.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by PhalPal

Sandra have you been following this thread of our Fdk. After Dark bulbs?
I didn't know you had these bulbs! I'm so excited to watch yours grow also.

OMG...and I didn't realize that your After Dark bulbs that you and Jay and Arlene are growing, were Catesetums until your post, here. And yes, I have been following your thread although, not the latest. No wonder what attracted me to these...I was intrigued by the pics and the bulbs looking like there was net around them; when I saw my little guys, I must have been subliminally drawn to them because of those pics! The flowers on mine will be mutts comparatively to what you're growing.

This is fun! I'm going to go read your thread again to get more pointers.

Thanks for connecting the dots for me Connie.

[PhalPal]

Sandra I'm excited to watch yours progress because this type of orchid has me fascinated! I want to get more, including a few 'mutts', because they grow so fast. I'm holding off until I know the one I have will do well for me. So far there is no reason to think it won't do well for any of us! They just GROW! Now if it would just BLOOM!

I'm going to put links on both threads so none of the info is missed by anyone interested in these bulbs.
Here is the other Catesetum thread, Fdk After Dark: http://www.orchidgeeks.com/forum/gen...e-project.html

[sandra]

Maybe someone here can tell me if I'm killing another orchid....or not.

One of my Catesetums is losing it's leaves, turning yellow and dropping one leaf at a time. I know that's what to expect with them but I thought that's not supposed to happen until beginning in late Autumn when it's need to remain dormant, begins NO? YES?

Isn't now supposed to be the time when it's growing and producing leaves on the new growths and remaining until Autumn?

[sandra]

BUMPING UP....

Since yesterday, all but one leaf have dropped. Is this abnormal for this time of year? It's cane is still sturdy, not soft.

Originally Posted by sandra

Maybe someone here can tell me if I'm killing another orchid....or not.

One of my Catesetums is losing it's leaves, turning yellow and dropping one leaf at a time. I know that's what to expect with them but I thought that's not supposed to happen until beginning in late Autumn when it's need to remain dormant, begins NO? YES?

Isn't now supposed to be the time when it's growing and producing leaves on the new growths and remaining until Autumn?

[jay]

Sandra - I just saw that you cross posted this in another thread. I wish I could help, but this is my first year with these little guys. I would email Fred Clarke. He is really good about returning emails and he is super friendly too.

Let us know what you find out if you email or call him.

[FLaCo]

What season do they usually go dormant on....winter?

[sandra]

Damien, everything I've read and been told about them is that they begin to lose their leaves in late Autumn and shortly after that is when all watering is withheld, once a month, if that until early Spring when root growth begins and new bulbs grow leaves.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by jay

Sandra - I just saw that you cross posted this in another thread. I wish I could help, but this is my first year with these little guys. I would email Fred Clarke. He is really good about returning emails and he is super friendly too.

Let us know what you find out if you email or call him.

Jay, thanks for the suggestion. I just might call him.

[brookn]

Is it possible that yours is an import? I read somewhere that someone had imported some of these from Brazil, and it took a couple of years for theirs to acclimate (they were dormant in summer, and grew in winter, which is summer there).

[sandra]

Not possible Brookn. The original growers moved to Hawaii and sold their stock to the nursery I bought it from. They were less than 5 miles away. It's down to 1 leaf now. My other 2 are showing no signs of failing and I'm not even sure if this one is failing....it's a mystery.

Thanks for your response.

[solay]

I'll hope for blooms instead of trouble. I'm sure they are OK. Good Luck!