Phrags grow faster than Paphs?

[tom499]

This is something thats been floating round in my thoughts while I've been researching and reading about slipper orchids. Now I am not totally accepting this theory as truth, but from the sources I have found this statement made (Especially Gore Orchids) I feel there must be some scientific basis in it, and that its not just cultural climate.

Both these sources say that Phrags grow faster than other slipper orchids.

Phrag. Culture Page

Gore Orchid Conservatory - Phrag Catalog - Phrag orchids for sale

I will be researching this more, and I'm interested in what you guys think, and if you have any sources which promote (or demote ) this statement.

[kmarch]

Generally I would agree that yes phrags grow faster than paphs if by "grow faster" you mean cycle through a complete vegetative and bloom cycle. For example almost all of my besseae hybrids would go through one of these cycles in 1 year whereas many paphs take more then a year to go through that cycle. It does depend somewhat on which phrags and which paphs you're talking about. The caudatum-type phrags seem to take aslong or longer to go through a cycle than most Maudiae-type paphs whereas some paphs like some big multiflorals and various others can take a few years to go through one cycle.

So I would agree given a few qualifiers.

I enthusiastically agree with Matt that Phrags make excellent "first slippers" as they do really well in the conditions found in most homes. In all of my orchids growing years in Michigan, I never lost a single phrag though I grew about 70 species and hybrids, not one single phrag death!

[Vivienne]

Another qualifier... the grower.

My Paphs are all doing quite well and most have rebloomed for me. The ones that have not are simply too young to be expected. My Phrags, on the other hand, well of the 4 none has rebloomed. I tried adding light but gave 2 of them a sunburn. Fingers are crossed that spring (and the light angle in the atrium) will bring better results this year!

[mayres]

Kevin - maybe it is the particular cross/plant that I have (?), but I have one phrag that I have grown for two seasons. The plant does OK, but every year the spikes come up and blast/turn brown before opening. The cross is Phrag Longueville (Hanne Popow 'Charmer' X longifolium 'Gracile'). On the other hand I have quite a variety of paphs and have never had a problem blooming them. ????? I have been about ready to give up on phrags after the problems with mine.

[Vivienne]

I have been there too Mike. But I can't even get mine to put up a spike. Frustrating!! I just repotted and relocated my Phrags. Hopefully it will inspire them.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by mayres

...Phrag Longueville...the spikes come up and blast/turn brown before opening

Don't give up just yet. There may be a couple of things to try. A few questions first:
1) what is it potted in?
2) what are you watering it with? RO water, tap water, rain water, etc.
3) is it sitting in a saucer of water?
4) how much humidity is it receiving?

Phrag Longueville was the first phrag I grew and remains one of my favorites (probably for sentimental reasons more than anything else).

[mayres]

Thanks for the reply Kevin -
The first season I kept it in a saucer of water about a half inch deep or so. It was planted in the media I received it in - from an accomplished grower in southern Oregon - looked like a lot of perlite, and some other gray looking material (?). The ends of the leaves burned (maybe accumulation of minerals or fertilizer in water tray over time?) and I didn't give it enough light (under my T8 fluorescents) so no bloom. Note I purchased it originally in bloom and it blasted those blooms in my office at work - they just turned brown without opening. Last spring I transplanted to fine bark and perlite that a good paph grower in my area uses. I also put it outside for the summer. It seemed to be doing great - nice new growths and two more spikes. As the weather cooled in the fall I brought it inside and witnessed the buds/spikes once again turn brown - one at a time. The second season I have not kept it in a saucer of water. It seems to do just as well being watered twice per week without? I am using city water that has sat at least 24 hours for the chlorine to dissapate - we have really good quality water in our area. Humidity can vary quite a bit - its getting about 55-60% right now. In the summer less - sometimes in the winter a bit higher. OKAY - I'll hang in there another season and if/as I get another set of spikes/buds I will let you know what is happening and maybe you can guide me to an opened one? I'd love to see a flower - never seen one yet in three years - even though I purchase this plant in spike/bud.

[kmarch]

I've lost besseae spikes in a manner similar to what you describe and I suspect it was caused by a lack of humidity because there were times my humidity would get below about 50%. Other times they bloomed without difficulty. My Phrag xerophyticum spiked twice for me and blasted both times. I suspect the one cause was when you brought the plant in while it was in spike, which may have been a rather drastic change in conditions. I noticed you've changed quite a few tings, different potting mixes, different light, etc., etc in a relatively short period of time (like a couple of years)? Those variables make it more difficult to diagnose a potential problem.

Your water sounds fine. I agree with you that the leaf tip burn was probably the result of fert or other build-up. That usually won't prevent blooming at leas in my experience it doesn't. I believe your flourescents should have been enough light. I have bloomed phrags in east windows, no supplimental light and under 4-tube flourescent shop lights. They bloom better (better colour) with slightly higher light. I would gauge both of my light conditions as "medium". Honestly I'm not real surprised it blasted at work. Offices are sometimes quite inhospitable places for orchids as they can be "climate controled" i.e. little light, very little humidity, unnaturally even temperatures.

This might sound like an odd recommendation, because orchidgeeks are always saying, "change this, change that, etc., etc." but try growing it for about a year or more without changing anything. For example, maybe put it in an east window in a good paph/phrag mix, in a saucer of water, and just leave it be for a whole cycle and see what happens.

[tom499]

Some great information, I hope I can use it to deal with any problems I face

I've only had mine a few weeks so cant make any judgement yet. But I may start measuring the new growth daily, as both mine seem to be on steroids!

Must be that plant invigorater/Nitrogen Fertiliser mix I made

[gore42]

I just ran across this thread and thought I'd better chime in (having seen the link to my website in the first post!).

First of all, Phrags in general grow much faster than paphs. The exceptions are the caudatum types, which are much more closely related to Paphs anyway (and have very similar leaf texture).

There are two main reasons for this:

1. Phrags generally grow in constant contact with copious quantities of water... generally amounts that would kill Paphs. If you read Lance Birk's "Paphiopedilum Grower's Manual", he notes that even with Paphs, the more frequently you can water them, the faster they will grow... but without a quicky drying mix, they will rot.

2. Phrags generally grow in very bright light. As long as they have plenty of water and air movement, some species can be grown in full sun, and many can be grown in very bright light... near Cattleya levels.

These factors alone would make the difference, but of course there are also the physiological differences in the leaves, etc. The grassy leaves simply grow quickly. Once a Phrag matures, the large leaves allow for the development of new growths very quickly. Most of the large Phrags that I have will mature a growth from a nubby to spiking in 4-5 months; the 3N plants are even faster. My large Paph stonei, on the other hand, still take two years to mature a growth. Also, from seed they generally take only about 2/3 the time to mature to de-flasking size that Paphs do.

Of course, there are exceptions... there are some fast growing Paph hybrids, and some slow Phrags. Phrag species that are grown cool also are a bit slower than others.


- Matt

[JLu]

I totally agree. Phrags outgrow paphs big time. Ours are in Catt light conditions, sit in water and are watered with rain water. They are sensitive to water quality and will get brown leaf tips at the drop of a hat. We get multiple new growths a year and bloom out the ying yang.

I've about decided that we simply do not know how to grow paphs because they just sit around. I'm about to throw the lot out. I like the flowers and the greater color variation that you get with paphs.

Gimme Phrags...they just do better for us.

[tom499]

Thanks for your input Matt, its not something often mentioned and its great to pick up on the reasons for this difference in growth speed.

I hope you didn't mind me using your website as evidence. I use your cultural advice as 'the' guidelines for paph and phrag culture and follow them fanatically so thought they must be right.