Paph Light

[chefatplay]

How delicate. If only I could get my paphs to bloom. Kevin, could you give me an idea on footcandles for a mottle leaf paph? I think I'm keeping them too dark. Hmmmm???

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by chefatplay

How delicate. If only I could get my paphs to bloom. Kevin, could you give me an idea on footcandles for a mottle leaf paph? I think I'm keeping them too dark. Hmmmm???

Hi chef, Believe it or not, I've never measured a single footcandle in my entire orchid life (10+ years). Mottle-leaf paphs though are shady plants, phal light or better should be plenty. I see you're in Florida. I believe any east or north window would be ideal. A west window wold be ok if there's some protection from the heat. South windows in Florida would be ok only if they're shaded or protected from any direct light. If you have lights, they'll do great under the lights. Keep in mind that many paphs have longer growing/blooming cycles and if you started with small plants they may not bloom every year.

Can you describe in more detail the area in which you're growing them?

[chefatplay]

I have just recently moved them to a north window. I had them on a coffee table with a lot less light. I don't have lights. I recently repotted these into one larger clay pot. I put a lot of styrofoam on the bottom and used fine bark, some perlite, some sphag and some oak leaves. The roots were okay, I had them in individual clay pots before that were deeper than I have them now. The medium is about 3 inches deep. I have taken some pictures for you. The first one is with flash, the rest have no flash so you can see the light at 7PM. It gets a little brighter during the day, duh, but no direct light.
I just watered them today.
I hope this helps.

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[kmarch]

Originally Posted by chefatplay

...north window...I don't have lights...recently repotted... direct light....I hope this helps.

Yup it does. Given your description and pictures, I believe you have plenty enough light to bloom your mottle leaf paphs. Your plants, to my eye, do not look to be blooming size yet. They look to be near blooming size (NBS) which is usually a year or 2 to bloom.

I think your light is good, I think your mix is good. If you keep them gently and evenly moist (never soggy but never dry) you should do ok with them. Now the only think we need to apply is orchid patience

What are the names?

[chefatplay]

Oh my, orchid patience. I keep forgetting that.... Do I have to????

I have some NOIDS, a Maudiae type medium size, Paph supersuk x Paph raisin pie and a Paph. Hysinying Redcrane '307' x Paph. Hsinying sceptre 'CH #2'. The first three I have never seen in bloom, still a mystery to me, the last one I bought in bloom, so I was lucky there.

Thank you so much for the light advice. I am looking forward to having something to look at someday.

[janice]

chefaplay, I am glad you picked Kevin's brain. I have several Paphs. now and I too am concerned about the lighting. My east windows are under the roofing or covered front walk way..........so I am not sure they get enough light there.........so right now they are on a table near the south bay window but never any direct sun light. Kevin, my Paph leaves appear droopy at times but pick up after watering, is this a sign they are not getting enough water????

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by janice

...I too am concerned about the lighting. My east windows are under the roofing or covered front walk way.....

What kind of Paphs do you have Janice?

Originally Posted by janice

Kevin, my Paph leaves appear droopy at times but pick up after watering, is this a sign they are not getting enough water????

Paphs have no water/nutrient storage system, in other words, no pseudobulbs so they need a reliable and consistent supply of water. With only a few exceptions, the rule of thumb is to keep them evenly and gently moist. If your leaf drooping is the result of lack of water (and based on what you described I suspect it is) you might consider more frequent watering or possibly a more moisture retentive mix.

What are your paphs potted in and how often do you water them?

[janice]

Kevin, I have:

Paph. Macabrfe 'Krull-Smith'
Paph. Maudiae (Los Osos x ('Los Osos x 'Vini')

These are the two I had put in S/H and than went back to a bark mixture -Better Gro Special Orchid Mix - and I tried to pick out smaller pieces.

Than I added in Feb:

Paph. praestans (California Gold x Honey) - this was a left over from our local Orchid Society sell. I have been amazed at how she has perked up and is rapidly growing a new leaf.

And just received:

Paph. Pinocchio - she looked traumatized after shipping but today her leaves are perkier (if that is a word).

I love S/H and may try at some point listen to Jay.....but I am not going to traumatize these guys right now. I really think I overpot???

[clarita]

You think there would be "paph light" in a N. florida window. By my standards, there likely isn't. Lived in z-10 for many years.

For me there is no such thing as "paph light" as defined by the standard culture sheets we all seem to cling to as the bench mark for cultural success. IMO the coveted culture sheets are still somewhat Victorian in approach and lean towards the selling end of orchids rather than actualy cultural requirements to have an orchid thrive. Standard culture sheets give the minimum requirements needed to keep a flower from croaking it. I don't know anything that will live a long and happy life at 500-1000 fc's.

I actually grew "low light" orchids on a Chicago roof in full out all day sun. Now that's no biggie up in pitiful z-5 but when I read that a North window may do for a paph in z-9 or10, I'm not sure I would agree. Mine had full morning sun until 10-11am and then the last few hours at night.

I don't know of anything that does exceedingly well in the 500-1000 fc range, paphs, Dracs, Masde's included.I grow mine more in the 2500-3000 range and they bloom (except some paphs who detested the move from z-10 but they'll come around eventually)

If you have some direct sun to give the plant please consider it. If you can put them outside, all the better. Mother Nature is a superb gardener in Florida. A steady diet of indirect pale "Victorian light" will eventually not be the answer.
Just my .02

[chefatplay]

"Very interesting. Hmmm, I just might look for a good spot for outside for right now. I'm afraid to put in direct sunlight right now. I accidently left them on the porch one day (there had been a heavy fog that day) and burned the one little guy's leaves. They have recovered but are scarred. I need to gradually acclimate them.

For now, I think I'll leave them in place and see what happens.

Very interesting........ There is one thing I have learned, there are many ways to go about getting to a good ending, experimenting is the key.

I will keep you all informed.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by clarita

For me there is no such thing as "paph light" as defined by the standard culture sheets ...

To be clear, "paph light" is whatever light a paph requires. For paphs this is not a one-size-fits all. The green-leaf multiflorals do better with more light.

Originally Posted by clarita

Standard culture sheets give the minimum requirements needed to keep a flower from croaking it. I don't know anything that will live a long and happy life at 500-1000 fc's.

The AOS culture sheet recommends 1000-1500fc, which is the same as what this forum recommends and Ortho's All About Orchids (my preferred text for newbies) recommends 2000-3000 for both green and mottle-leaf paphs, which is probably unnecessarily high for mottle leafs. I dont' know what culture sheets you're seeing that recommends 500-1000, but the reputable sources give higher levels than that and are relaible.

It occures to me that I might have misunderstood your 500-1000fc comment and maybe you were meaning that the general category of "low light" orchids are 500-1000fc. I've not seen this guide anywhere. Both Taylor's Guide and Ortho's book quantify "low light" as 500-2000fc, and both books indicate that plants in all categories (low, medium and high) tend to bloom better towards the higher end of their ranges. So again I don't know what sources the info you've quotes is coming from but I'd question it anyway.

Originally Posted by clarita

I actually grew "low light" orchids on a Chicago roof in full out all day sun. Now that's no biggie up in pitiful z-5 but when I read that a North window may do for a paph in z-9 or10, I'm not sure I would agree. Mine had full morning sun until 10-11am and then the last few hours at night.

There's sometimes a difference in what a particular orchid needs and what we give it. I'd not be suprised to hear that you or other growers grow low light orchids at a light level higher than what is generally recommended. Sometiems we do these tings out of convenience, because that is what our conditions are and we just stick our plant in those conditions.

Culture sheets, even though you are suspicious of their purpose, give us a valuable and practical outline of the basic needs of the plant. But many orchids, especially hybrids are tolerant of a range of conditions so some of us are probably not following the culture sheets to the letter and are still getting good results.

I do not know what kinds of "low light" orchids you were growing in full sun, but I would strongly recommend that mottle leaf paphs not be grown in full sun, especially not in summer, even in Chicago.

Originally Posted by clarita

If you have some direct sun to give the plant please consider it. If you can put them outside, all the better.

These cultural recommendations depend heavily on the plants in question and other factors such as geographic location. When I lived in Michigan I grew some of my paphs in an unobstructed east window where they got about 2-3 hours of earlymornign direct light. This was fine for both mottle leaf and green leaf paphs, but morning light is different that intense afternoon light. It's not advisable to grow paphs in full afternoon sunlight.

In the northern zones it goes without saying that paphs may be grown outdoors in spring summer even part of autumn but must be protected in colder months. When outdoors during the warmer months, paphs still need some protection in the form of shadecloth or a slat house.

Originally Posted by clarita

Mother Nature is a superb gardener in Florida. A steady diet of indirect pale "Victorian light" will eventually not be the answer.
Just my .02

I agree with you that mother nature is a superb gardner, not only in Florida but everywhere, which is why I believe it is important to look at a paphs natural habitat, gather as much cultural/environmental info as we can from that habitat and apply it to our own growing. Going back to the mottle leaf paphs (which started this thread) we find that most mottle leaf paphs in the wild grow in shaded areas, from dappled light to complete shade. While your mottle leaf paphs may have done well in light levels much higher then what they'd get in the wild or what might be recommended, those high light levels are not a requirement for successful growing and blooming. It's quite important that we not discourage other growers from growing various types of orchids by insisting that our highly individualized situations are what's necessary for success generally.

I wish I could give folks a guided tour of my paph growing space. I think they would be really surprised by how little light I have and yet I am able to grow and bloom all sorts of paphs including the higher light multiflorals. My paph room gets no direct sunlight, not a single ray, and I have no supplimental lighting. It even surprises me sometimes, especially as in these same conditions, I have just flowered my Ascocenda Gail Noyes (a high light orchid?). Here's a pic of my paph space. Would my orchids bloom better with more light? I believe they probably would. Still the fact remains that I'm able to grow and bloom lots of paphs, an Ascocenda, and various cattleya alliance plants in a rather low light situation and if I canmanage it, others can probably also manage it.

[chefatplay]

Kevin, thank you for the further explanation. Your paph growing space picture has been valuable to me. I see your lighting and it is much like mine. I took on paphs because if the decreased lighting requirements. I have a few spaces in my home that need some beautiful flowers, but, just don't have the light requirements of most.

I have learned a lot here. I will continue on with my paphs in the north window. Have a great day everyone and Happy Easter!

[jerrymeola]

We always ask members of the forum to say where they are to tailor advice to their conditions but it is not always enough.

Here in Florida most of our windows are glazed with heat absorbing shields (and block light) and large over hangs shielding the sun from the home. My south windows are not enough light to grow Orchids.

Since you have Florida orchids I will comment specifically. The Paphs you pictured are young and usually grown in 2 inch pots for a long time. I also am unable to re-flower this size Paph. I think it is just age. If you bought them in bloom they were probably a division and you only received the flowering portion. The growing portion may have been retained. When the growing eye is removed it takes a long time (if ever) to get going again.

I now only buy plants with 3-5 fans. I pay a premium and think it is a better bargain. Paph fans only flower once so it is the new growths that you really want.

Ellen I hope you can stop by and say hello either April 19 or 20th. I will be at the Heathcote Botannical Garden sale in Fort Pierce, not too far from you.

As to light, my best results are my lanai under the overhang about ten feet in. It faces south, and you have got my interest , I will measure the light level today. (It does reguire a fan 24 hours a day during the summer)

[janice]

Jerry, thanks for the info on the divisions..............this is good info for us novices!!

[kmarch]

Jerry makes good points. Naturally if a plant is a seedling paph then it will probably have only have one growth and so it will have leads. This is also true even if bought in bloom, it being a first bloom. It's with divisions that you have to be a bit more careful and know what you're getting. I have a couple of divisions of nice plants which were really slow to start growing new leads. If it's a division but has some new growth, that's good.

[tom499]

Aye I bought a paph maudiae which turned out to be two seperate plants. They flowers about July then sat around for ages.

They're now put out a new growth each, but are slow to do so.

[clarita]

Really great discussion thread with lots of info and POV's!
Chef- One must always acclimate a plant to higher light; ie introducing them little by little to the increased light in order to avoid burning. I introduce them to the new conditions for 2 -3 weeks.

Kevin, yes I had paphs in full sun last summer, along with other "low light" plants. Grew like weeds. I have almost no natural light indoors. I think what we all may be forgetting is that many of the plants we grow come from more tropical & equatorial regions. What is shady in a tropical region is not the same shade that one would experience in Florida and definately not Chicago. Full sun in Chicago is like a bicycle headlight by comparison. I've spent a fair amount of time in more tropical/equitorial regions. Sunglasses are a must in the shade.