Den. in trouble again??

[janice]

My Den. Garnet Jewel 'Hawaii' is losing leaves again. She did real good for a couple of years.................I have her in S/H. Last fall developed some root rot, I trimmed roots/stalks and treated with cinnamon. She did okay and thana couple of months ago retreated a cut stalk due to being mushy. Roots look dry now,okay but leaves started turning yellow and dropping?? Any advice out there...HELP????

[psyc1210]

The only info I can give is that my Dends are both in 100% Aliflor, in regular slotted pots (i got the pots from repotme.com) and they are both growing new canes. Maybe try using the same media you have in the pot, but not in semi hydro?

[articuno75]

I'm wondering if the roots are hitting the water and rotting. You said that the plant did fine for awhile, turned sour, you trimmed, and then it was fine until now. I'd get it out of the S/H and go for the traditional bark and clay pot just to see how it goes.

[janice]

The roots are not close to the water................but I agree I think I am going to put it in bark.............................although she has been in the S/H for over a year............and had lot of growth last year......................at least for a while.....and there is new roots.....

[BunnytheOrchid]

Sometimes root rot doesn't appear for a little while. Even if the plant has seemed to be doing well, sometimes underneath stuff could be rotting out over time. I don't know if repotting again would just stress the plant more, but if you can tell the mix has been staying too moist, it might be the best way to salvage the plant. The new roots are a good sign, but that makes me think even more stuff is rotting from too much moisture, and now its trying to compensate.

[janice]

And if I repot, what size pot?? The canes about five left are tall....but the roots are minimal...so should I go with a smaller pot???

[BunnytheOrchid]

Hehe looks like we posted at the exact same time. I thought orchids like to be tight in their pot...like the roots should touch the side of the pot. Is this true for dens too?

[rodbender]

Dens seem to like tight pots as far as the leaves yellowing and falling off it is probably normal. Mine do that as tthe plants mature mature then give a good bit of new growth

[janice]

I know that Dens. do lose leaves...................and these are on the bottom of one cane (do you call it a cane/stalk??) but the other has moved up the cane to effect all 5 leaves. And it appears that a spike is starting to develop on the better of the two. I do know they can bloom on a leafless cane.................but my canes since August are shrinking Maybe Dens. don't like me!!

[articuno75]

Dens like to be root bound. I don't know how big your root mass is, but what I did for my Dens was got a pot that fit the roots and able to put just enough medium to cover them adequately. I had to stake some of them in place cause they still wanted to fall out of the pots. I have one that should establish and stay put in there in no time. Right now it has a spike and will bloom eventually.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by janice

And if I repot, what size pot?? The canes about five left are tall....but the roots are minimal...so should I go with a smaller pot???

Yes, use as small a pot as possible. Dens like to be tightly pot bound. My Den fimbriatum has 20-24-inch canes and is in about a 4-inch pot. Same with my nobile-type. I have blooming size kingianums in 50mm pots (about 2 inches). So if the pot seems too small for the size of the plant, you've got it right.

This makes dens usually top heavy, so to prevent tip-overs, consider putting the potted den, pot and all, in a larger pot secured with stones.

[janice]

Lyle, BunnyTheOrchid, Jenny and Kmarch, I seem to get the feeling/BIG HINT that I need to go smaller....although I have liked S/H I am swinging back to bark mixtures with all my 2 years of experience. This Den. is not exactly my favorite but I hate to lose any orchid................I think this weekend I will repot to bark..............................I really am a believier that orchids are fighters and surviviors............so maybe this Den. will make it!! And Kmarch, I like the idea of anchoring it in a larger pot....

[kmarch]

I agree janice that orchids are TOUGH plants and vigorously fight to survive. It appears that for whatever reason your den was not crazy about the s/h. Other of your s/h orchids are doing ok though correct?

Do or have other forum members grow(n) dens s/h? It would be interesting to find out if others have had dens struggle in s/h too, and to compare s/h/ methods. Since it seems like more than a few members are interested in s/h it would be worth knowing if generally dens don't respond well to s/h/. Maybe we've (you've) discovered something worth noting.

[janice]

kmarch, and maybe this needs to be a separate thread but I went to S/H about a year and a half ago.....mainly because I tended to be an overwaterer and my winter climate. I was told Dens. would do okay...and I have a NOID Den. that is doing great. My Garnet Jewel did okay until late last summer.....I wondered if I spritzed too much with our late summer heat..which caused the root rot?? What I do question is that so many orchids like smaller pots - and I am wondering if I overpotted in the S/H due to the plant size...I am a novice and learning............................I do feel more comfortable with my watering habits now with so much advice from all you experts. I have several Phals. in S/H as well as several Catts. I did not think my Paphs. did well so I switched back to bark although I know a few people on this forum have Paphs. in S/H. I did not put my Vanda., Asc. or Onc. in S/H. I really have been a fan of S/H but I am starting to question it for me......................and maybe it is just Winter in Southern Ill.

[annelemos]

When do the canes/stalks grow? One Den I have is blooming. The other Den the stalk died. Will another grow? (Obviously I'm a Newbie)

[janice]

I unpotted this morning..............roots in the middle ball are really BAD!!!!!!!!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do I just repot and PRAY AND HOPE....................any chance sphag an bag will help................a few good roots on one side.....Cut off canes on bad side that are losing leaves???? ORCHID RESCUERS are need you in my kitchen!!!!

[articuno75]

Janice~ Take a deeeep breath. Whew.

First. How bad is the center root mass? If it is really, really bad. I'd remove it.
Don't remove your canes. They still might make it. Believe it or not they can grow roots back from the base if given a chance. Do you have any peroxide? Pour or soak peroxide on it for a few minutes. Since it was in S/H and with any algae, I'm thinking of infection prevention here. Repot the Den and run water, then pour peroxide over the whole mass media and all. Run a fan for circulation and give it plenty of airflow.

[articuno75]

Remember the canes are in shock and are losing the leaves. Only if the canes are rotting (turning black, mushy) should you remove them.

[janice]

Okay, I have peroxide..............................The canes are solid but the root mass is bad so I have trimmed the roots off .....This Den. has visited the emergency room toooo often!!! Thanks, I am going to get the peroxide...and start trim some more!!

[E-Jag]

To get back to the "dens like it tight" thing for a moment, how does being overpotted negatively affect them? I suspect it merely increases the chances of it being overwatered; however, I have a den which is seriously overpotted. It hasn't bloomed in many years. Assuming proper care, which it's been getting for at least 2 or so years, might it be reasonable to conclude that being overpotted is hindering/preventing blooming? It looks great, all kinds of new growth and new roots. It nearly never loses a leaf, which is in itself a little odd. Is a phal type. TIA for any ideas.

E-Jag

[11Orchid126]

I find they do bloom better with tight shoes. I also never repot them, I just pot them up into a slightly larger size as they don't like their roots disturbed. And they also don't like a lot of nitrogen.