Phal. in Sphagnum

[janice]

One of the Phals. I recently bought has had very limp leaves. I chalked it up to shock in shipping and possibly some cold damamge. This morning my brain kicked in..........duh...............and realized she is all in sphag. The roots still look pretty. I am going to repot this morning into a little drier medium. Will the revive soaking help any.................or do I just need to repot? And will the limp leaves make it?

[articuno75]

If the roots still look okay you'll probably be fine and can do a quick repot. Just be sure to trim the dead.

[PhalPal]

If the roots look okay your plant isn't dehydrated, but I re-pot all my Phals when I get them home especially when they are potted in sphagnum. Could it be cold stressed???

Sorry Jenny - missed your post somehow!! Yeah.... what she said.

[dipasquo]

My Phals seem to suffer from limp leaves mostly from underwatering. (Of course significant root damage can effectively cause underwatering but that doesn't sound like the problem.) The good news is that on the occasions that this has happened to me the leaves have perked right back up after watering; it usually prompts me to reconsider my watering schedule in light of seasonal changes. I prefer my Phals in bark rather than spag because I'm much more afraid of the roots sitting in wet spag than I am about the consequences of a little under-watering.

[PhalPal]

In addition, a lot of growers ship orchids very dry and like dipasquo stated above a good watering will do the trick. The revive recipe couldn't hurt. Occasionally I will get a Phal that has naturally softer leaves, but this is not the norm for most.

[silkymoon]

I have never liked spaghnum moss! always repot asap holds to much moisture for my taste.
Maria

[BunnytheOrchid]

I concur with silkymoon. I know some people swear by it, but sphagnum just doesn't work for me. The new bark mix should be a little moist, so I would moisten it or soak it for a bit.

[janice]

The sphag. was really really wet ...................I don't know why my brain did not kick in sooner because this particular one just did not look as good as the other one I bought. The shipment came from Hawaii th/ our local orchid club....................the "good one's" leaves are sturdy....and the limp one is just like the word - "limp" "droopy" and the color "dull" . I repotted both this morning into a mixture. I am with the rest of you, I don't like all sphag. We shall see. Thanks.

[sandra]

Janice, are all the leaves limp or just the bottom ones? If the whole plant is limp and the roots look good, it could be that the plant was recently transferred into sphag and possibly stressed from this change. When you unpotted it, did the sphag. come away easily or were the roots really embedded in it? Signs I've noticed of Phals not being watered enough will usually show up on the bottom leaves, becoming limp and heavily lined. Depending on how long they've been limp, the leaves can firm up again. You said the roots look good so I'd say the chances of this Phal perking up are pretty good.

[janice]

The phal is in a 4 inch pot - in spike - and all the leaves are limp. The sphag. did come off easily.....................I trimmed a few dead roots off and repotted to a mixture. I can post a picture if needed ..................but I think I have done what I can for now...the good phal. was also in sphag. but not wet.....

[PhalPal]

I was once an adamant hater of sphagum moss and have recently had a change of heart.
I have a few Phal species and many different growers told me 'only sphag' so I tried it, AGAIN. My little Phals are doing great in the stuff and were the first to spike for me this season. Cynthia brought up an excellent point in another thread on the subject, and her rule of thumb is to never use moss in a pot bigger then 3" because it will hold too much water. I think it is a great rule and I always, always take new plants out of the growers moss. It is usually too tightly packed and OLD.

Another member (can't give her credit, can't remember ???) uses tree fern fibers mixed with the sphag to keep it light and airy. I will do this with my next re-pot because it sounds like a good idea as well.

[janice]

PhalPal, thanks................I will keep the tree fern fibers mixed with sphag in mind. I still don't like sphag............but that does not mean I won't change my mind............I have used S/H but now realize I can do some medium mixture and not overwater!!! I put my paphs in S/H because I was told they would adjust but have put them back into a mixture.................and they are doing GREAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Orchids keep you THINKING and GUESSING sometimes!!!

[brookn]

Connie, I actually read that you can keep them in the sphag up to a 6" pot. My species Phals do so much better in the sphag. I recently put an equestris in bark cause I was out of sphag and it is very mad at me. I ordered more and will be repotting it as soon as the stuff arrives. Janice it sounds like it was recently repotted and the shipping traumatized it a bit, I am sure it will perk up for you in the next few weeks.

[kmarch]

Brookn, can you expnd a little? Am I to understand you read that spah works good only up to a 6" pot? And do the sphag/phals you have all grow in less than a 6" pot?

This is interesting because (at least in my mind) it challenges some of the black-n-white absoutely yes/definitely no conventional wisdoms about growing phals in sphag.

I want to hear more.

[brookn]

Okay, let me see if I can give recall of the info without having to go back and double check it. Currently the Phals that I have in sphag are in 4" pots. I do not pack the moss in preferring to wet it, and then let it sit in a collander for approx. an hour or so before potting. I use Fred's technique of wrapping the spag and weaving it around the roots until it looks like a big sphag ball ( I think that a similar principal can be applied to Neo's)then sitting it into a pot with more moss and filling. I personally prefer compressed sphag from Lusterleaf, because it looks great fluffed, and does not need sorting and cleaning. I did have a Phal. in a 7" pot that was in sphag, the plant did well, but I found that the moss stayed wet for a long time, and soured much easier so I moved it to bark. It was in the sphag for approx. 6-7 months. I repot anything in sphag around every 8-12 months depending on the look of the sphag, and I have found that my cinnamon spray tends to keep the sphag somewhat fresher.

I recently read a culture guide, that I found online, it was very informative, and made a lot of sense to me. It also explained things in a way that made a lot of sense. In this guide, the writer stated that Phals. do well in Sphag up to 6" pots. The angry equestris that I am repotting to sphag. is in a 5" pot, and I was not going to hesitate moving it to the moss even before reading this culture guide. I am probably kind of weird, but my plants kind of tell me what they want, I just have to listen carefully. I like to experiment, and I kind of am a green thumb savant. Things just grow for me. I will see if I can find the link to the culture guide and post it.

[brookn]

Okay I found it. It is also in PDF for printing, I simply saved to my documents. I cannot get my stupid puter to insert the link, but I will copy it here so you can probably paste to see it. I read the entire thing when I found it. It put many things in simple enough terms that I found it quite useful.
Venamy Orchids

Comprehensive Culture Guide—Introduction to orchids

Okay, so posting the link actually worked yay. Kevin I personally do not believe in black and white rules for any plant, I think there is always room for a tweak of the culture or the medium. And of course this may not work for others, it may just be appropriate for my particular needs.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by brookn

Kevin I personally do not believe in black and white rules for any plant, I think there is always room for a tweak of the culture or the medium. And of course this may not work for others, it may just be appropriate for my particular needs.

Thanks for the link and all the info brookn. I'll give it all a good read. I agree with you (and I think most - all - members would too) on the no-black-n-white approach, but I have noticed that regarding the sphag/phal thing it seems like folks seem more adamant than usual with some repeatedly recommending no-sphag while others swear by it. I have, of course, no empirical data like stats to back me up but it seems a more polarizing growing-medium topic than most. I find it curious.

[sandra]

brookn, I'm glad you posted this link. I took a quick look at this guide and found lots of interesting stuff to grab on to. Thanks so much for providing this. The longer I'm into the care of orchids, the more I find myself relying on my instincts as well and just knowing what works and doesn't and causes me to realize I've come a long way and still, a long way to go.

I'm very interested to know about how you water your Phals in sphag. I always imagine that it retains way too much water when first applied. When you do water, do you let the plant soak it up from the bottom or do you water into the pot? Have you found it making a difference in how much water it's receiving one method over another, if you've tried both ways?

[articuno75]

Brookn~ Very interesting. I read through and found a lot of good on there. Still leary about spagh with my Phals, but you never know. I might give it a go again in the future. I does great with my Oncs. though.

[brookn]

Sandra, my method of watering Phals. flies in the face of convention somewhat. The ones in sphag are species, the only hybrid is a primary. The one in the 7" inch pot that I put in bark was a hybrid, and seemed to like the sphag fine, I just did not feel comfortable with the center staying moist, and the sphag souring quickly. I think also, that because it was in glazed clay, it made a difference. If it were in regular clay it might still bein the sphag and happy, and I may experiment with a large NOID to see how it works. The species and one primary (Penang Girl) love the stuff. I also keep them in clay pots, I prefer them. When I water, I take them to the sink and I hose them, leaves, crown and all. I let the water flow freely through the sphag, and I rinse and wipe any salts gathered on the pots. I then tip them over on their sides on my drainer and spray with the cinnamon spray, then I put the ceiling fan on high until they are dry. I use the skewer method with the sphag, and I find that I can fairly reliably tell that way when they need a watering, I just make sure it is into the middle of the sphag.

Jenny my Onc is in bark, but that sad plant is another longer story lol.

[kmarch]

So let me see if I get it:

spag is loosely wrapped around roots to form a ball (not compacted like we see in commercially grown)

repotting essentially eveyr year

potted in clay pots not plastic

use the skewer method to see how wet it is inside the pot

spray (water) when needed

lots of air circulation to dry off the leaves

Yeah?

[articuno75]

Kevin, did you see how I did the Miltassias?

[kmarch]

Jenny, I did not. I don't grow many oncidium alliance plants so I probably skimmed over it. I'll go back and look.

[brookn]

Yep Kevin, that's it. Simple and effective. I will try to post a pic of my bellina. It has grown 3 leaves since I recieved it about 7 months ago and I fully expect it to bloom this summer.

[sandra]

brookn, thanks for your explanation, here. I may try the sphag on the one species I have. It's doing very oddly is the only way I can describe it. It lost the middle leaves on both sides, at different times, it's growing a new leaf, has healthy roots, 2 fairly large basal keikis. Everything but losing the middle leaves throws me in a quandary. I keep reading that Phal species like the sphag so I just may go for it. Clay for sure.

Thanks again!

[brookn]

Okay, I just got a pic worthy enough, it takes me many cell phone shots to be satisfied with the final product. The first is my Phalaenopsis bellina, the second is Phalaenopsis Penang Girl. Okay it did not work. I will try again momentarily.

[brookn]

Okay, here goes. Sorry these aren't bigger, but they were taken on my cell phone.

Phal. bellina




Phal. Penang Girl

[kmarch]

The leaves are really beautiful. I have a seedling phal. Maybe I should try this.

[patticake]

I just bought a Phal labeled Dtps. Ching Ann Diamond. I told myself that I wouldn't do anymore rescues, but the bloom was a beautiful solid deep purple- It was right by the front door at Lowe's (getting below zeroF blasts constantly!) and the buds were shot. It still had 2 blooms, but the whole table of Phals looked pretty beat-up. They were the run of the mill- but this little darling called to me! It's potted in sphag, but tightly and in a plastic pot. soaking wet- I'm going to repot her and see how it goes. This thread came along at just the right time-Thanks!!
P.S. I took pictures of it but without the flash, it looks red- With the flash, kind of light purple- I'll post soon- Anton I need your help!

[PhalPal]

I recently put all of my orchids in plastic pots and I see lots of new root growth, especially my species in sphagum. I don't have any Phals large enough for a 6" pot; I put them in the smallest possible. I try never to go over four inches with any Phals. My bellina and equestris are both in less than three inch plastic.
One thing I am sure of, is whenever I purchased a Phal in a larger pot potted in moss it died rather quickly. The other thing I am sure of is my species love sphagum and my other Phals love my coir mix. Something else to keep in mind is humidity; my sphag dries rather quickly.

I learned something I try to keep in mind when potting orchids: it is not the presence of water that kills an orchid, it is the absence of air. (referring to the roots) I interpret this to mean that loosely wrapped, fresh moss will work just fine, and for me, NOW, it does.

AND I WAS THE WORST SPHAGHUM MOSS HATER EVER!!!!

[kellyincville]

I really like sphag for my phals. Like Brooke mentioned (and your plants look great btw!) it's important to make sure that the medium is loose or else the middle never dries. I use clear pots because it makes watering. Condensation = doesn't need water. When I water I take them to the sink and let the water run over the medium while I go to get the next plant (about 30 secs or so). Also, all my plants in sphag have a layer of peanuts on the bottom.

I think I water my phals much less frequently than many- once a week in the summer and once every other week in the winter. However, one thing that makes my windowsill conditions different from many others- I do not have A/C in my home and Virginia summers are hot and humid.

To each their own!

Kelly