Need advice please!

[Debbie Hayden]

I recieved a large phal keiki from an internet purchase, today. No potting instructions were included. I'm not sure what to do next. It has many long roots, which are plump and green and two 4" leaves and one 1 1/2" small leaf. 2 spikes, one looks like it has already bloomed and has been cut, and the other has just started budding. The name is species Riverbend X Zuma Beach. Do I pot it in sphag or bark? What size pot? HELP!!!

[articuno75]

Just pot it in your favorite medium that you have. You can use either. My Phals are in Aussie Gold Mix (Coir, Charcoal, Perlite). Be sure to presoak your bark if you use it. That way it's good and ready to go. Spagh is okay,,,I never had any luck with Spagh and Phals (Root rot). I'd go with the bark to be on the safe side.

[pikevi]

I use a mix of mostly fir bark and coconut husk chips, along with a little moss ,charcoal and perlite. I see good growth but I cannot say the same with regards to blooms.

Good luck.

[PhalPal]

You want to use a pot just big enough to fit the roots. Whatever mix you use is fine if it matches your watering habits. Have you been introduced to the skewer method?????

[Debbie Hayden]

Yes, Connie, I have a skewer right by my orchids. The medium I have is pre-mixed for Phals. I bought it at our local garden center along with 4" clay orchid pots. The only thing that I'm worried about is, the orchid was left on my doorstep most of the day in 40 degree temps.. It came bare root in a box of styro peanuts. Everything looks good, but it was a little cold when I took it out of the box. My house is not extremely warm because we are trying to cut down on heating bills, so maybe the temp change won't be too stressful. I'll keep my fingers crossed on this one. It will be my first "baby orchid" to try and grow.

[phalaephila]

Here's a tip for the next orchid delivery: Put a cooler by the door the day you are expecting a plant in the mail. Instead of ice, place a bottle of warm/hot water in the cooler. Write a note asking the postal worker or delivery person to put the box in the cooler. This will keep everything fine until you get home to bring the package inside.

jeanne

[Debbie Hayden]

What a great idea! Thanks, jeanne.

[Debbie Hayden]

Well, right or wrong, I've got it potted. You guys wish me luck!

[rodbender]

Am sure you did a good job Deb. Just try to keep it slightly moist and not to bright with the light. It should do fine for you. Congrats on your first of many succesful pottings

[pikevi]

I am sure it will be fine, Debbie Hayden.

Just like rodbender said keep it moist. That is what I do and the Phals. are doing well.

Good luck.

[articuno75]

First mail order pot/repot. Awesome!!!

[kmarch]

It looks like you've received some good advoce on potting and caring for your orchid. I'll only add that there are great culture sheets here on the forum and at the American Orchid Society.

Originally Posted by Debbie Hayden

The name is species Riverbend X Zuma Beach.

Phal Riverbend x Zuma Beach is a hybrid, not a species. Species orchids are orchids that are found in the wild while hybrids like yours are usually bred in cultivation.

[PhalPal]

!!!!!!!!!goodluckgoodluckgoodluckgoodluck!!!!!!!!

[Debbie Hayden]

Thank you for correcting that, Kevin. It makes me wonder about the grower it came from. The label said species. Do you think they meant that Riverbend and Zuma were species. Remember, I know nothing! But am eager to learn.

[phalaephila]

I am wondering if by Riverbend, the grower used Phal. equestris 'Riverbend', which is an awarded cultivar of the species. There are also several phal hybrids which have Riverbend in their names, but none are just plain Riverbend.

Phal. Zuma Beach has Phal. violacea as a parent, so this has the potential of having a very nice fragrance.

Please post a picture of the flowers when they open, this sounds like an interesting hybrid!

jeanne

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Yes, I've seen this in Baldan's Ebay store. They have it now and clearly somewhere in their write up mention equestris 'River Bend', which I have in spike now. But, the real question is the Zuma Beach. Is that a varietal name of some Phal that has an AM/AOS? Need to research that one.

Baldan's has the absolute worst write ups for their ebay offerings. I have been back and forth with them several times over a keiki I bought, something 'Tequila Sunrise'. I think I have pieced together the parentage, but won't be sure until they finally send me the promised info which they claim they will do when the plant is registered (currently pending). I would email them and insist on having the correct name for this plant. If enough of us do it, they may give up their mysterious listings in favor of avoiding our complaints.

[PhalPal]

The 'Zuma' varieties tend to be compact and multifloureous. Zuma Orchids in Malibu, Ca breeds them and may be a good source of info on this plant.

[kmarch]

Originally Posted by Debbie Hayden

The label said species. Do you think they meant that Riverbend and Zuma were species.

Originally Posted by phalaephila

I am wondering if by Riverbend, the grower used Phal. equestris 'Riverbend', which is an awarded cultivar of the species. There are also several phal hybrids which have Riverbend in their names, but none are just plain Riverbend.

Good catch phalaephila. I think you're right. I think they probably used Phal equistris 'Riverbend' as the one parent. There is a Phal registered as Zuma Beach so it is certainly possible that at least that part was correct.

This is a classic example of how lazy and sloppy some nurseries get with their tags, using ridiculous, individualized "code" which we are left to sort out later. Debbie, I think they know the difference between their species and hybrids but are just lazy and sloppy with their tags.

---> Warning: vent approaching <---
Lets be honest here (maybe I should put this in the new "venting" section) how difficult is it to get the name of an orchid clear and correct on a tag? Come on all you orchid nurseries out there (you know who you are) would it kill you to take 30 seconds and get the tags right? It's a customer service fundamental.
---> end of vent <---

[phalaephila]

Well, in googling "phal equestris zuma beach" I see that there is apparently another cultivar of Phal. equestris named 'Zuma Beach'. So you may have Phal. equestris which is a species. The parents of your plant may be two different cultivars, 'Riverbend' (which is awarded, AM/AOS) and 'Zuma Beach'. Gosh, a correct tag really would have helped here!

jeanne

[patticake]

I recieved some orchids from an ebay nursery. I had it delivered with a "hot pak" in the box. The pak was still warm when the box arrived. The plants all looked good too. Good luck with the new plant, Debbie!

[Debbie Hayden]

So it seems that what I bought is an un-named hybrid of Riverbend and Zuma Beach? There was no info about the plant included. Not even potting instructions. Maybe they assume that every customer is experienced in orchid culture. I guess I should call them on Monday.

[jay]

Debbie,

If I am understanding phalaephila correctly then you still could have a species. The parents of your plant would both be Phal. equestris.

Phal. equestris 'Riverbend' x Phal. equestris 'Zuma Beach'

The reason for the two names would be they are different cultivar names, not species names.

Maybe someone else can verify that.

Jay

[kmarch]

phalaephilia,

You're turning into a first-rate orchid sleuth. Way to go! We need all the good orchid sleuths we can get given the wacky tags that turn up.

My memory is not clear on this but I do seem to recall seeing another thread here or perhaps it was a tag somewhere that was a species that just listed the 2 cultivar names tht were used to create the line-bred offspring. I do often see this with line bred Den kingianum here in Australia.

All that to say I think you have probably solved the mystery. Fortunately we'll be able to tell as soon as it blooms because Phal equestris is a pretty distinctive flower, reasonably easy to id.

Debbie,

You haven't bought an unnamed hybrid. We think you have bought a line-bred species, more specifically a line-bred Phal equestris. In orchid breeding, when you cross 2 plants of the same species, the result is that species:

Phal equestris x Phal equestris = Phal equestris

The cultivar names 'River Bend' and 'Zuma Beach' refer to specific equestris plants. Since they are both plants of the exact same species (Phal equestris) crossing them results in another Phal equestris.

Orchid breeders cross plants of the same species with different characteristics to produce plants of that species with certain desirable characteristics. This is called "line breeding."

There are a couple of threads on line breeding here so do a search n the forum and see what you come up with.

[Debbie Hayden]

Thankyou, Kevin. This is starting to fascinate me. And I appreciate you giving it to me in laymans terms!

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Yep, looks like equestris.
SPECIES RIVERBEND X ZUMA BEACH LARGE IN SPIKE NOW - eBay (item 140199996118 end time Jan-25-08 08:55:43 PST)

[Debbie Hayden]

That's it! Did I fall for something? I paid $6.99 + shipping.

[phalaephila]

No, you did not "fall for something". Baldan Orchids is simply taxonomically challenged. They do have some very nice plants, and it just takes a little figuring to get the name correct. Enjoy your Phal. equestris!

jeanne

P.S. Thanks, kmarch. I am a little obsessed with taxonomy and naming, I'll admit ~ the scientist in me, I guess.

[PhalPal]

Debbie I LOVE my little Phal equestris! At first I was worried about trying a species but I have found them to be some of the easiest to grow. Maybe it's because I can look up exactly what it wants and then provide it. No crosses in there confusing the culture rules.
BTW - They are great mounted!

[Debbie Hayden]

That's encouraging. Now maybe I can relax and quit hovering over it! I ordered some worm tea this morning, do I start misting the new orchid right away?

[phalaephila]

This is my opinion - please do not mist your phal. If water happens to get in the crown of your plant along with the right bacteria, it can rot very quickly. I have lost a couple orchids to misting and subsequent crown rot; luckily I had keikis or basal growths that took the place of the original plant. Regular watering is all that is necessary.

jeanne

[articuno75]

I think that if you have proper air circulation, misting would be fine. I mist my Noid Phal and Dtps. Purple Gem twice a day both morning and night and have done so for months. I have had no consequences or problems. As Kmarch puts it: air circulation, air circulation, air circulation

[Debbie Hayden]

The problem I'm having now is the humidity. It's only about 25% now and this morning would not even register. I have a small humidifier running full force, which also circulates the air, but it's still low. I'll try a tray with pebbles and water next.

[articuno75]

If you have to, put a bag over your plants when you use a humidity tray. This will help retain humidity.

[Debbie Hayden]

It won't encourage fungus or root rot?

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by kmarch

Good catch phalaephila. I think you're right. I think they probably used Phal equistris 'Riverbend' as the one parent. There is a Phal registered as Zuma Beach so it is certainly possible that at least that part was correct.

This is a classic example of how lazy and sloppy some nurseries get with their tags, using ridiculous, individualized "code" which we are left to sort out later. Debbie, I think they know the difference between their species and hybrids but are just lazy and sloppy with their tags.

---> Warning: vent approaching <---
Lets be honest here (maybe I should put this in the new "venting" section) how difficult is it to get the name of an orchid clear and correct on a tag? Come on all you orchid nurseries out there (you know who you are) would it kill you to take 30 seconds and get the tags right? It's a customer service fundamental.
---> end of vent <---

I agree. It's especially confusing in this case. The intent may be more obvious from the way the label is written but names like "species (sp.) Riverbend" are typically used as informal names for species that are not formally described, with the name after "sp." referring to the location from which the plant was collected. Such names are particularly common where enthusiastic growers have the plants in cultivation faster than the taxonomists can get their papers out (eg cactus or carnivorous plant growers). If we're being realistic, it would seem unlikely in this case, especially as google pulls both Riverbend and Zuma Beach as being in Texas (the centre of Phalaenopsis biodiversity). Still, it's a great example of a nursery wasting ink on a label.

[articuno75]

Originally Posted by Debbie Hayden

It won't encourage fungus or root rot?

You just put the bag over the top of the plant...Don't seal it or anything. There should be enough of a gap for airflow to move freely, but build enough humidity for the plant. I had to do this a couple of times already with my Dtps. Purple Gem and Catt. I checked it daily for changes, and when it got enough humidity, I took the "dunce cap" off.

[Debbie Hayden]

One of my Phals is in bloom, does that make any difference?

[articuno75]

Now that I don't know. I never done it with a plant in bloom... I'd be afraid to thinking it would stain or discolor the blooms. Mayres would know more maybe. He's got a lot of Phals. Might just have to mist and check water levels. Did you get worm tea?

[Debbie Hayden]

Yes, it's on order, should be here the end of the week. Maybe I'll just keep chugin' along with the humidifier and tray. I've had such good luck with the Phal thats in bloom now and would hate to damage it. Well, to tell the truth, I've already damaged it this summer when I let the leaves get sunburn! That was before Orchid Geeks!

[articuno75]

Ouch. Well if it gets too dry, you can always take it to the bathroom and shower while it sits on a counter. I've done that with my Phal over the summer when my apartment got too cold. (Air conditioner set too low and apartment still dry ) Bathroom has great humidity.

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by kmarch

phalaephilia,

You're turning into a first-rate orchid sleuth. Way to go! We need all the good orchid sleuths we can get given the wacky tags that turn up.

My memory is not clear on this but I do seem to recall seeing another thread here or perhaps it was a tag somewhere that was a species that just listed the 2 cultivar names tht were used to create the line-bred offspring. I do often see this with line bred Den kingianum here in Australia.

All that to say I think you have probably solved the mystery. Fortunately we'll be able to tell as soon as it blooms because Phal equestris is a pretty distinctive flower, reasonably easy to id.

Debbie,

You haven't bought an unnamed hybrid. We think you have bought a line-bred species, more specifically a line-bred Phal equestris. In orchid breeding, when you cross 2 plants of the same species, the result is that species:

Phal equestris x Phal equestris = Phal equestris

The cultivar names 'River Bend' and 'Zuma Beach' refer to specific equestris plants. Since they are both plants of the exact same species (Phal equestris) crossing them results in another Phal equestris.

Orchid breeders cross plants of the same species with different characteristics to produce plants of that species with certain desirable characteristics. This is called "line breeding."

There are a couple of threads on line breeding here so do a search n the forum and see what you come up with.

AHHHHHH!!! MY BRAIN HURTS.

[Debbie Hayden]

Well, at least I was able to give you brainy ones something to talk about! And of course I understood every word!

[articuno75]

I got lost where the River Bend heading to Zuma Beach. I have to re- read it.

[Debbie Hayden]

All I know is that it's suppose to have pretty lavender blooms someday. I'll post a picture if that ever happens.

[kmarch]

What is it that is confusing exasperatus? Let me know and I'll try t explain it in non-scientific terms.

[Debbie Hayden]

Originally Posted by exasperatus2002

AHHHHHH!!! MY BRAIN HURTS.

exasperatus, Just knod your head periodically and say uh-huh!

Kevin, I, for one, am learning alot from your brain. Some of it I don't understand, but I can always ask for clarification. Right?

[kmarch]

Rightoooo Debbie. Ask, ask, ask! No one comes to your door with orchid knowledge to serve to you on a silver platter....at least no one did that for me, so the only way I know to learn all this stuff is to read, ask, ask, read, talk, ask, discuss, read, lather, rinse, and repeat.

I've only been "doing" orchids for about 12 years. I was very fortunate to join a fantastic orchid society (The Ann Arbor Orchid Society, Ann Arbor Michigan) right at the start of my orchid journey, and have had some fantastic teachers who directed me to excellent books and other materials early on. All of that to say I'm greatly indebted to several good teachers so I am more than happy to share whatever I have learned as best as I can.

I figure if I get enjoyment out of it, maybe someone else will too!

[exasperatus2002]

Originally Posted by Debbie Hayden

exasperatus, Just knod your head periodically and say uh-huh!

Kevin, I, for one, am learning alot from your brain. Some of it I don't understand, but I can always ask for clarification. Right?

Sorry long day that day. Im still getting the hang of the proper way to write the names of orchids. Guess it didnt help I had read before that post the one thread where they were trying to guess the parentage and listed the lineage on one of the orchids. Im a novice some things dont soak in as fast as I'd like.

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

Debbie, that is a fair price. I also bought some of their Phal equestris varieties, and paid similar prices.

[Debbie Hayden]

Was that recently, Cynthia? How did you pot yours? I used a Phal mix, which is mostly bark and charcoal from the looks of it, and put it in a clay pot.

[sandra]

Originally Posted by Cynthia, Prescott, AZ

Baldan's has the absolute worst write ups for their ebay offerings.

Maybe....but they have the absolute best, healthiest and prettiest (IMO) Phals I've seen on the internet or nurseries around my neck of the woods. I've bought around 15 from them so far, every single one in outstanding health and big keiki producers on several as well.

[Debbie Hayden]

Sandra, that's good to hear (read?). BTW The humidity is up to 41% since I tried the humidity tray. YEAH!!!

[brookn]

I just purchased a Phal. equestris 'Gino' from them and am expecting it in a couple of days. I am kind of excited because it is peloric, I also love the color.

[sandra]

brookn, I know exactly the one you've gotten. You won't be disappointed.

I speak with them on the phone from time to time (they're here in Fla.) and have struck up a friendship with them. They sent me a Christmas present with one of my orders, a Dendrobium parishii which they knew I had wanted. Very nice people to deal with.

[brookn]

I recieved my Phal. equestris 'Gino' this morning and I could not be more pleased. It has 9+ very healthy roots, 5 leaves, and is in full bloom (which was not said in the auction so happy surprise). Gorgeous!!! I can also see where the old spikes are, and there were 3 before this blooming. I am excited. I paid $13.10 for the plant and the shipping, considering that the NOID's at WM are $13, I would say that I got a fabulous deal, and will be buying from them again. Plant arrived with a nice printed, correctly labeled, plastic label also. Shipped bare root, and arrived within 3 days of the notification that they were shipping.

[Debbie Hayden]

That's great, Brooke. I recieved a nice plant, too, it just didn't have a name label. I'll still order from them again when the weather warms up.

[sandra]

brookn, Glad to read how pleased you are with your purchase from Baldan. I'm never, ever disappointed with them.

Debbie, I think you can request a heat pack with your purchase....if you don't feel like holding out till the weather changes

[Cynthia, Prescott, AZ]

I have been putting all my plants into my mix of 2 parts small (sifted thru window screen material) perlite and 1 part Canadian peat (coarsely sifted), plus the addition of a little gypsum (1 Cup/cu-ft) to react with any fluorine release by the perlite. Because of the serious fungal problems I have had, I also add a little Banrot to the mix. I am extremely happy with this mix. I pot small and pack the mix in pretty well, making it possible to see when the pot needs watering, as the mix drys uniformly, and when the surface looks dry, the entire pot is dry. But packing is the key thing here.

[brookn]

Debbie, mine was shipped in the middle of a cold snap and came through just fine if that helps. It did not have a heat pack. The flowers are shriveling up on me, but I pretty much expected that. From FL to MO was quite a journey.